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Showing content with the highest reputation on 10/16/2016 in all areas

  1. my couisin sent me this pic . i love the view from this angle. my
    8 points
  2. Every US and Canadian amusement/theme park has a max capacity--set by, among other things, fire and evacuation concerns.
    6 points
  3. I can't wait to see the lift hill when it's completed. The view will be even better then.
    5 points
  4. Drone's are not allowed in KI airspace. We might want to see the construction but rules are rules and that one is very important.
    4 points
  5. I was really glad I used my free Fast Lane from renewing today. Very busy day at the park.
    3 points
  6. The smell is from a fire retardant that they spray on the walls and such so in case if a fire breaks out the entire thing won't go up in mass flames. It is horrible until it gets aired out... I remember when I worked in Carnevil that it was horrible smelling throughout because of the stuff. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    3 points
  7. Rode one of the 4D/Freespin coasters this year, Batman at SFFT. It was a different experience, rather disorienting. When we made it back to the station it felt like we came in from the wrong side to me. It's not a bad ride, definitely another kind of coaster. It seems odd to me that rcdb lists it as a wing coaster, instead of a new category. Side note, not listed on your magazine ad, is that they will gladly build you an Arrow inspired, S&S Mine Train Coaster as well. http://www.engineeringexcitement.com/product/mine-train/
    3 points
  8. I visited Universal on a beautiful October Saturday and the longest line I waited in was 35 minutes for Hulk. Granted, MCO had been closed the two days prior because of Hurricane Matthew, which no doubt contributed to greatly reduced crowds.
    3 points
  9. And some places won't even allow any grandfathering regardless. In any event, some laws and regulations, like the ADA, have no grandfathering provisions anywhere in the USA.
    3 points
  10. Not terp, but I believe that if you modify 'anything' you can no longer grandfather code to it. Moving to a new location strikes me as a scenario that fits that. That said, I doubt that any of the original structure is salvageable to rebuild after sitting/rotting for 9 years. Let my fact-checking begin.
    3 points
  11. Well, just got back from Haunt at Kings Island. Had an awesome day...here is a quick summary, a full trip report might come later...these are roughly in order I noticed them as I went through my day: -Tried Vortex's 7-1 seat for the first time. It was actually very good with awesome air on the first drop. I will now have to choose (probably based on lines) between this and 5-1 on future visits. -The Beast was running GREAT. Awesome speed (though I now notice the trims which is probably me being used to the ride) and not overly rough at all. Rode once during daylight and a 2nd time after dark, both were awesome but the 2nd ride was superior for obvious reasons. I can only imagine how crazy fast it would have been if trimless...maybe too fast as my sister complained it actually scared her. The ride also had some great new seasonal theming touches, and references to Son of Beast, Flight of Fear, and Mystic Timbers. -The Bat and Adventure Express are amazing rides at night. The Beast and Banshee might get all the attention, but these rides also improve drastically at night. -Speaking of Banshee, due to it having a huge line, we didn't ride it. We tried to get Diamondback before the crowds built up, but it broke down and then had a huge line when it re-opened. So I didn't ride a single B&M...or Vekoma, for that matter, as I didn't do Invertigo or Firehawk either. Rode all the other adult coasters though (kids coasters were all closed). Unless you count Red Racer because we rode Blue. -Flight of Fear was our attempted first ride, but it was broken so we did Vortex instead. Later me and a friend returned and rode it while my sister did Field of Screams, and I got a ride with the MCBR...OFF (we slowed down just a bit when we hit it but came nowhere near stopping). One of the most intense rides I have ever taken on a roller coaster so far. That final corkscrew really packed a punch with no MCBR stop. -The Eiffel Tower looked awesome with those evil eyes, so I dubbed this version "Evil Tower". We also rode it for the first time in a while and went on the lower 265-foot platform for the first time. -There were some food trucks parked at the base of the "Evil" Tower, selling Pizza and Grilled Cheeses and stuff for dirt cheap compared to the park's food ($8 for 2 slices of Pizza versus $11 for LaRosa's). I got a Grilled Cheese. It was good. We also got Ice Cream that tasted almost EXACTLY like pumpkin pie, which is good because I like pumpkin pie. -Racer was pretty fun, but had some rough spots. The memorable moment for that ride came when I got ejector air on a very rough spot at the same time, which was like "WHAM!" (launched out of seat). My lapbar was also apparently damaged as it was taped up, but as I am still here to post this and you are not reading some "Man launched from Racer and killed" post, it was obviously fine. -Mystic Timbers is looking very good so far, and based on my Beast rides today, if it is anywhere near as fast feeling as Beast with more airtime, and in the woods, Beast may well have a challenger for my favorite ride in the park title. It isn't skyline dominating huge though- then again most of the lift remains to be built so we shall see when I come to ride the built coaster hopefully next year. -I also rode WindSeeker and BLSC, which were their fun usual selves, and Boo Blasters (not as big a fan of that one). Didn't do any haunts as I come to KI for the rides. -I also saw my first show (or at least the first few songs of it): Blood Drums. It was awesome with the pyro and cool effects. -Kings Island may have overdid it on the fog. As we were leaving, I looked back and the "Evil" Tower and Drop Tower were all I could spot, as well as Diamondback's lights which appeared to be floating in midair. They also put the fog machine on Beast in a bad spot, right next to the lift hill...which meant there was a lot of fog when we hit the brake run. And that is a 12-point summary of my day. It was awesome. But now I am sleepy, and will rest. But I also await my next visit to Kings Island...though I expect Mystic Timbers will be open by then.
    3 points
  12. The parabolic negative airtime hills would not be recreated in the USA in today's climate. A rebuilt Big Dipper would resemble the original as much as Kings Dominion's Grizzly does Coney Island of Ohio's Wildcat or Canada's Wonderland's Mighty Canadian Minebuster does Coney Island of Ohio's Shooting Star--which is to say almost not at all. Geauga Lake itself had the prime exemplar. The Raging Wolf Bobs was made of wood and had coaster trains that ran on steel wheels on wood track. Otherwise....the Riverview Bobs recreated? No. Just no.
    2 points
  13. It used to have different exit path. It used to connect back to the midway on the right side of The Racer facade instead of the left side, like we have now.
    2 points
  14. And, as has been said numerous times here by individual(s) quite knowledgeable in the facts of ride relocation/recreation, it CAN not and WILL not be the same ride, no matter where it would be installed in the US. If that ride were built in any US park today, in compliance with current safety regulations, it would be as much the Big Dipper as Banshee is. The things that made that ride good, buzz bars being one of them, would not exist on any recreation. Had DK not been a jerk (My opinion, no one will ever change it so dont try), that ride could/would have been relocated in its existing form someplace like Valleyfair as Terp mentioned, or WoF where I wanted it. As much as I Love the history of the ride, and wish the non-Dick move would have been made back when it could have, the unfortunate reality is that its better off being dismantled at this point.
    2 points
  15. Is it just me or does Racer have a different exit then it did in 1972?? My parents are saying it's always been the same exit but.
    2 points
  16. This place is off the chain. Unruly Teens all over, smoking all over the park, even saw guests climbing in the calander. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    2 points
  17. This is easy. Raise prices. Again and again.
    2 points
  18. My favorite thing about Field of Screams (I used my front of the maze pass from Fright Feast to skip what appeared to be a two hour line) was the cool views of Racer after going through the maze. Field of Screams smelled nice though*. Kind of like really being in a cornfield. It explained where the *a surprising number of haunt mazes have smelled like urine when I went through this year.... They're doing their job I guess?
    2 points
  19. No. What needed to be done by a company like Cedar Fair was to preserve the ride and move it elsewhere...like Valleyfair!
    2 points
  20. Watching the workers climbing around up top doing the connecting makes me feel like they're a little crazy, but I'm also insanely jealous. If I could have physically managed such a job it would be my dream!
    2 points
  21. B&M's have gentler hills than John Millers, not to mention far more effective restraint systems.
    1 point
  22. The Beast had a fog machine coming right up to the tracks at the start of the first lift Hill
    1 point
  23. This is the Flight of Fear one. I don't have pics of the others but maybe someone else does.
    1 point
  24. How is the attendance usually on a Sunday? Thought about going and taking the kids today but was kinda wondering on how busy Sundays are. Thanks
    1 point
  25. Saying that last evening was crowed is a under statement.
    1 point
  26. Did you take any pics of the new seasonal theming touches? And what's the references to the 3 rides say?
    1 point
  27. Does KI still have a max capacity? It sure seemed they were over 50,000 in the park today. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    1 point
  28. While Maud L was sent to Disneyland, I believe Vortex may be referring to the locomotive known as "Davenport." Disneyland traded the Davenport for the Maud L because the Davenport engine was too big for Disneyland and too small for Disney World. Maud L was the perfect size for Disneyland as was the Davenport for Cedar Point.
    1 point
  29. Well, I had some sleep now and thus, as stated, here is my full trip report (I did a quick summary of my day in the Kings Island 2016 thread). First up, my new ratings system (first used at the state fair a few weeks ago), which is a 1-5 scale: Fun Factor: How fun I thought the ride was. 1 is boring and lame, 5 is awesome. Intensity: How intense and forceful I thought the ride was. 1 is tame, 5 is super forceful and intense. Comfort: How comfortable the ride felt- this includes roughness. 1 means I was in horrible pain by the end, 5 is super comfy. With that explained, let us begin...I went with only a small group of only 3 people this time- me, my sister, and one of our close friends (more her friend though). We left around 2:00PM to do a quick Wal-Mart run before hitting the highway at 3:30. After a 2-hour drive (10 minutes due to super slow traffic at one point due to road construction) we reached the park at 5:20PM, and waited 40 minutes for it to open. The Undertaker came out and greeted everyone (and he pulled no punches) and at 6:00PM, the monsters came out and we were in. We headed to Flight of Fear, but it was broken and we didn't want to get a locker for Firehawk, so we headed instead to Vortex. #1: Vortex Wait Time: Walk-On 5-1 was taken (surprisingly) so I hopped in the "other" good seat, 7-1. The ride was maybe a LITTLE rougher here, but there was amazing airtime on the first drop. Nice forces throughout too. An awesome ride to start the day with. Now I'll have to make a choice (probably based on lines) when I ride Vortex of which of the two seats I want. Fun Factor: 5/5 Intensity: 4.5/5 Comfort: 3/5 After Vortex, we decided to ride Beast before it got dark (with a night ride planned for later of course), but since the waits were super short on the way we hit BLSC. #2: Backlot Stunt Coaster Wait Time: 5 Minutes BLSC was its usual, spunky self with good forces (especially the helix) and its nice pop of airtime after the police chase turn. The helicopter attack and tunnel finale are still great fun. We also got the Blue Train for what I think is the first time, but I'm not 100% sure. Fun Factor: 4/5 Intensity: 3.5/5 Comfort: 4.5/5 After BLSC, we headed for Beast as planned. #3: The Beast (Daytime) Wait Time: 10 Minutes The crowds were starting to pick up a bit, but were not terrible yet. The line had gotten pretty big by the time we got off though. The sun was setting during the ride, so it made for some BEAUTIFUL views. With a loaded train and the reduced trims for fall, Beast was flying through the course on this ride, and it was dark enough that the 2nd tunnel and helix were awesome. My favorite coaster was on-point once again. There was also some cool theming around the que, with references to the ride's lore as well as Son of Beast, Mystic Timbers, and oddly, Flight of Fear. Fun Factor: 5/5 Intensity: 4.5/5 Comfort: 4/5 After Beast, we headed to check on Diamondback as it had broken down but we saw it testing, but we stopped to get Ice Cream which tasted exactly like Pumpkin Pie (not a bad thing as I enjoy Pumpkin Pie) and checked out Mystic Timbers construction. That ride looks like it's gonna be awesome when it opens. The line for Diamondback to re-open was pretty long surprisingly, so instead we rode Boo Blasters on my sister's request. #4: Boo Blasters on Boo Hill Wait Time: 5 Minutes Well, while not truly awful, I am starting to feel Boo Blasters is one of the weakest rides in the park. The shooting aspect of the ride seems random and you can't actually tell where you're aiming and thus will miss some of the effects, and I would have preferred a traditional dark ride where the scenes run automatically instead, like Enchanted Voyage or Phantom Theater were. Alas, my sister loves this for some reason so I must ride it again I assume. At least it was comfy and didn't have much of a line. Fun Factor: 2.5/5 Intensity: 1/5 Comfort: 5/5 After Boo Blasters my sister wanted food, and we had seen 2 food trucks near the Eiffel Tower (which I should mention looked awesome with those evil eyes and from here on out I am calling it Evil Tower) but before we ate, we went up since the ride was surprisingly open. #5: Evil Tower (Eiffel Tower) Wait Time: Walk-On We went to the lower of the two platforms (not counting the 50-foot-high closed one) for the first time I have done, since I assume the Evil Eyes atop the tower are on the higher one and would otherwise block the view. My sister didn't even realize there were 2 decks. The views of the park at night with the fog were beautiful and the air felt cool and crisp. We didn't stay up too long but it was fun. Fun Factor: 4/5 Intensity: 1/5 Comfort: 5/5 Afterwards, we did hit up the Food Trucks, and I got a Grilled Cheese for $4 which was tasty. The other truck had Pizza for cheaper than the park's own LaRosa's Pizza ($8 for 2 slices versus $11) but my sister got Hot Cider. I needed to use the bathroom so I went over to the one on I-Street near the entrance, and my sister and her friend got LaRosa's for some reason (they could have saved money at the food truck). Also we saw some scareactors for the first time since the park opened here, which makes this a good time to point out...where were they? I was under the impression they would be all over the park long before this. Later in the day I did see more but early on, they seemed MIA. No problem for me as I was there for rides, not haunted houses, but if you came for haunts I can only assume you would be disappointed. We then headed for Action Zone where we found Delirium and Banshee both had huge waits. I would wait that long for Banshee, but they wouldn't. So instead we headed for The Bat, which... #6. The Bat Wait Time: Walk-On WTF!?!? Banshee GETS ONE HOUR LINE AND BAT GETS NOTHING!?!? What makes this even sadder is this ride does have pretty good capacity and probably could have reduced Banshee's line considerably if more people would have come back to ride it, and that this ride is very good...especially after dark. It is lit up more than Beast, but it still gets a bit of that night vibe and has its own great views during the ride. It also felt very fast this time. Fun Factor: 5/5 Intensity: 4.5/5 Comfort: 4/5 After The Bat we headed back to I-Street, and watched Blood Drums (or some of it least). It was cool. Our friend went and got some cider which was cold instead of warm since the trucks were close (she let me try it and I prefer it cold as well). After a few songs, we headed for Adventure Express, which I really wanted to try at night. #7. Adventure Express Wait Time: 15 Minutes Wow- AE is a really, really good ride to ride after dark. It is in a wooded area, and the tunnels are very dark (save intentional lighting of course). The ride was a bit jerky but didn't seem as bad as last time. After The Beast, AE probably is the ride that improves the most after dark. Fun Factor: 5/5 Intensity: 3.5/5 Comfort: 3.5/5 After AE, we planned on going through Coney Mall and then my sister would break away to do a haunt. Our first ride was The Racer, since the line didn't look too crazy at all and they were running both sides, which if I recall they usually don't do during Haunt... #8. Blue Racer Wait Time: 5 Minutes One of the best parts of racing coasters? Since they are technically 2 coasters, double capacity! We chose Blue Racer, which I have not ridden since at least 2011 I think. The ride itself ended up somewhere in the middle of my 2012 and 2014 rides- not amazingly smooth like 2012 but not overly rough like 2014. There was decent airtime, especially on one of the big hills near the turnaround where there was also a rough spot at the same time. That made for a intense moment. Also for some reason my lapbar was taped up- somehow, someone broke it earlier. Overall this was good fun. Fun Factor: 4/5 Intensity: 3.5/5 (though that one moment was a 4.5) Comfort: 3.5/5 (a little rough but not too much) After Blue Racer, our group split up as my sister left to do Field of Screams. We instead checked the line for the now-open Flight of Fear. It was full on the outside, but we asked a employee if the inside was full and they said no, so apparently the park was making the line look longer...probably to sell Fast Lane passes. I also didn't see too many people using Fast Lane in spite of the crowds to be honest. So we got in line... #9. Flight of Fear Wait Time: 25 Minutes When you consider FOF is a 90 minute wait when full, this confirms that the inside was empty. The start of the ride was normal. Forceful launch, Cobra Roll, and then some twists and turns...then we hit the MCBR. I was expecting the train to stop, and gradually pick up speed, like it normally does. It didn't. On this ride, the train barely slowed down on the MCBR, and we flew through the 2nd half of the course at even higher speeds than I am used to. The G-Forces were crazy, and the final Corkscrew was even more intense. We hit the brakes, and all I could think was "WOW". That was pretty darn crazy, IMO. Fun Factor: 5/5 Intensity: 6/5!!! Comfort: 3/5 (FOF is one of the rougher coasters IMO even with the MCBR on...still not terrible though) After the crazy ride on Flight of Fear, we began heading towards Diamondback so I could do it solo (our friend who was with us is too large and my sister was still at the Haunt- I also never did get that ride in, see later...) but our friend suggested we ride WindSeeker, and I do like WindSeeker so we rode that first. #10. WindSeeker Wait Time: 10 Minutes My 3rd ride on WindSeeker was similar to the 1st- it was night, and the cool air blew in my face as we flew 270 feet in the air and spun around. Seemed like a longer ride cycle this time though. Great views of the park, as usual, which also showed how crazy far back my sister's haunt went. Fun Factor: 4/5 Intensity: 3/5 (due to height really, not so much forces) Comfort: 5/5 After this, we used the nearby restroom and then my sister met up with us. It was getting a bit late and with the huge crowds, we expected a huge line for Beast, and it wasn't far so we went to ride it for the night ride. #11. The Beast (Night) Wait Time: 40 Minutes OK, 40 minutes for Beast @ Night with crowds like this? Not bad. The ride itself? It's The Beast @ Night, of course it was amazing. It felt like it was even faster than it was earlier in the day, and it was far from slow then! (My sister complained it felt TOO FAST for her...) And the helix...oh boy was that fun. One minor complaint- they put a fog machine right at the base of the 1st lift. Horrible spot- I would have preferred it near the middle tunnel or something, especially since it was sending fog into the brake run. In spite of that, this was still an amazing ride and easily best of the entire day. Beast night rides are legendary for good reason! Mystic Timbers will have to be something amazing if it hopes to challenge them. (Though I at least expect Mystic Timbers will put up a fight!) Fun Factor: 6/5!!! Intensity: 5/5 Comfort: 4/5 Afterwards we checked out the Diamondback line (for me mainly), and it looked too long still, so we headed home as we were hungry and heard there was a Sonic drive-in nearby. Also from the parking lot, you could see the insane amounts of fog- Diamondback looked like its lift lights were floating in midair! However they closed on us just as we had pulled up so we ended up getting Subway instead. Overall It was a super fun day, and I had a blast. I eagerly await my next trip to Kings Island. OVERALL SUMMARY PROS +Great Rides (well execpt maybe Boo Blasters which is just "Meh") +Ride Ops did a great job dispatching trains which probably helped the waits +Good food, even if one item was from a food truck and not the park +Blood Drums is awesome +The Undertaker guy is great at his job +Cool Haunt props as usual...especially "Evil Tower"! CONS -They overdid it on the fog...when you can't see a 230 foot B&M Hypercoaster, you know they did... -Scareactors seemed few and far between at points, which is bad if you came for haunts -Making lines look longer for the sake of selling Fast Lane? A wee bit shady IMO...just a bit but still...at least if this is why they did it, could have just been a mistake. Comments and questions welcome.
    1 point
  30. I'm wondering now, how will Season Pass Sales for the 2018 season go with Winterfest starting in 2017....will the major sales be during the same time it is now, before the end of October or will they be before the end of the calendar year?
    1 point
  31. It's certainly not the park's fault they had to close for capacity, but from reading the comments on Facebook, it definitely sounds like the traffic situation could have been handled much better. Many people have been complaining about sitting in traffic, sometimes without moving, for a hour or more only to THEN find out the park was closed. FWIW, they posted at 8:20 PM that they were back open: https://www.facebook.com/BuschGardensVA/posts/10154134701033315 The complaints continue in the comments of that post.
    1 point
  32. Terp how much of the original ride (roughly) has to be moved to not need to follow current standards? Also when they move a wooden coaster how do they do it? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1 point
  33. The Beast line has all ques filled and is out to the arcade. Reminds me of the 80s. Lol
    1 point
  34. "I can't afford to go anymore! How dare you!"
    1 point
  35. Things are not as they seem... -- M. McLuhan
    1 point
  36. It has been working for me all day. There are some nice pictures posted over at TPR from today.
    1 point
  37. There is no way I would go to any major park on a Saturday in October if the weather is ok. Even if a park isn't at capacity, 2+ hour lines for the big coasters is not worth it to me. For the people on Facebook saying they should open during the week, it is almost impossible to get enough people to staff the park on weekdays in the Fall, even if enough people showed up for it to be worthwhile. Great Adventure 2 - 3 years ago decided to open Tuesday - Thursday after Labor Day when all schools were in session. Besides minimal staffing like no Flash Pass and no ride greeters and many food places closed, they actually had to get workers from Six Flags New England and Six Flags America to help run the rides in addition to some managers help running a few of the coasters.
    1 point
  38. Even Invertigo was all full. Fast Lane at Diamondback was almost to the entrance. They are closing the year well
    1 point
  39. So, I found this on Facebook, but I don't know who originated the photo... but I-Box confirmed on site: http://i.imgur.com/lcUlYUl.jpg
    1 point
  40. I follow a few pages on Facebook dedicated to Geauga Lake. Some claim the ride could be dismantled and stored until someone bought it to rebuild. Would it even be worth the cost to dismantle and store? Would the ride be in well enough shape to do so? Side note, some reports coming in that the ride has started to be demolished. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1 point
  41. The only things you could reuse would be motors and the chain for the lift. The best thing to do is hire someone to draw up blueprints and rebuild it some where else.
    1 point
  42. I was hoping to try the 3L Launch Coaster this year at Playland's Castaway Cove in Ocean City, NJ but unfortunately the park ran into multiple delays and it never opened this season (along with their new Miler family coaster). The park posted on Facebook that they still might try to open the coasters for a weekend in November even though the park closed for the season but at this point I'll probably try to get there next year since Ocean City isn't that great this time of year with almost everything on the boardwalk closed after Columbus Day weekend. I have had a chances to try the Free Spin at Great Adventure but when I watch the coaster, I just can't convince myself to get in line. All the flipping like a Zipper flat ride and moving backwards and flipping at the same time looks really dizzying to me. I'll probably eventually try it if I see the coaster with no line so I don't have time to think about it.
    1 point
  43. That could have happened. Paramount explored the idea of removing the tower and replacing it with a Ferris wheel that was shaped like the Paramount logo. That's something I never knew... I'm very glad it never happened.. The most major thing that put a stop to it (although my understanding is that the discussions never really got that far) was the cost of removing the Eiffel Tower.
    1 point
  44. Count each "square" as 6 feet from the bottom going up to the top and I would say the hill is at the apex right about now.(just over 100 feet) I believe the workers could stand up inside a square when they were working on the framing so that's how I came up with approximately 6 feet per square. Looking good!
    1 point
  45. Kings Island drive north has all three lanes open. They still need to do the final coat of blacktop, but the road is fully open. Southbound still has limited lanes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1 point
  46. PTC? Big Dipper was a John Miller with in-house rebuilt, heavily modified NAD trains.
    1 point
  47. At the turn of the millennium, there are signs... The future is riding on it.
    1 point
  48. I started a thread on season ridership numbers awhile back, recounting data released publicly by the park. http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php/topic/30475-kings-island-2014-rider-counts/ Banshee was the most-ridden ride in 2014 and 2015. It will be interesting to see how close Diamondback gets this year, as they really seem to be pushing through the lines.
    1 point
  49. Always sad to see an old, historic woodie go.
    1 point
  50. Not only that, the cycle was changed TWICE. For a brief moment it had a "true" top spin cycle akin to what you might see while playing Roller Coaster Tycoon. It was actually a lot of fun and intense. No one cared that you were in an empty box with nothing but flashing lights. I remember the day we reopened with the final cycle (the ferris wheel type one). We had everyone in the queue so pumped up, shouting to them on the microphone. That first load of guests got on and as the ride started homing back to position at the end, nothing and I mean nothing, but boo's. So many agitated people as they exited. When I first started working at the park, the Tomb Raider crew was always one of the last few to get up to the office at the end of the day due to a long line. By the time it was The Crypt, we usually had the ride spick and span, trash changed, and everything done by 9 PM. Never had much, if anyone, after 8:30 PM. Got to the bar a lot earlier most nights that summer.
    1 point
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