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Oh my word. Did you unwrap Christmas presents before Christmas day to see what was inside? If your answer is yes and your parents found out about it- they should have returned the gifts. Because it's intended for a surprise. If the park wanted people to see behind the curtain, they'd post pictures. if not- wait another 35-40'ish days. The original poster of the images asked, then didn't post the iStreet images. The conversation should have ended there. Zealots that can't wait a few weeks could be placing this site and its moderators at risk. Though Kings Island doesn't "own" this site- the site doesn't exist without the park: no Kings Island, no KIC. If the park feels like members of this site are improperly taking liberties with with their "private" property and decide its more trouble than worth they could choose to file a lawsuit corresponding to what they feel has been violated. Granted, I don't think it would be a case they could win- BUT it would cost "owners" of this site to lawyer up. I'm not sure what the payday is for moderating this site, but I doubt it would be feasible to enlist in a legal battle. Takeaway: Just wait. Go to work. Go to school. Read a book. Build your own anticipation of 75 degree days and walking through the park entrance in April. You're not entitled to anything; and the second you think the park owes you (or members of this site) something- here's a hint: they don't. Think of someone other than yourself. In other words, stay in your lane. Baxter, Out.

Installing a flyer right after removing a flyer would be a bad, bad, move IMO. For multiple reasons: 1. Why offer your guests the exact same concept that most of them have already experienced? And no, I don't buy into the sentiment of a giga being "redundant" upon DB. If its designed anything like Leviathan or Fury (hopefully more like Fury), then it should offer an experience entirely different from DB. 2. While B&M flyers tend to have better capacity than their Vekoma counterparts, that isn't to say that their capacities are good. Or at least, they're not on par with what KI would want. Even when they're capacities are increased by features such as the dual station like on Manta, that requires extra resources in terms of staffing, which would up operating costs. High operating costs (along with maintenance issues etc.) was one of the reasons to axe Firehawk in the first place. And with regards to B&M flyers' reliabilities (or lack thereof) while I cannot speak on all their flyers, I would infer from my anectodal experience there not that reliable either. Or at least not by B&M standards. In each of the four trips I've made to NJFTP, Superman was down for an extended period of time at some point in the day (or worse, when I was stuck on the final brake run for 20 mins! ) Again, I can't speak on to how reliable their other flyers are, but my experiences at Great Adventure I feel were to frequent to be a coincidence. There are also just so many more moving parts on flyers as opposed to other B&M models, which likely requires more $$ in maintenance. In other words, a B&M flyer would bring with it many of the same issues Firehawk had, but just to a lesser degree.

Here are some of the ground rules that a few seems to want. If the park is closed to the public then the park requests that any aerial or other shots of the park come from them not any other source be it plane, drone, etc. Anything that is public record is fair game. When the park is open and pictures are taken, that is fair game. Why no pictures when the park is closed you say? The top of the list it is just being respectful. Also, with an incomplete construction area, it makes people jump to conclusions about an area that might looks totally different the next week. When the park feels the time is right we will get updates.

Based on how much an improvement Fury was upon Leviathan - coming just three years later - we can only wonder what Beautiful and Magnificent has in store for their third giga - five years after their previous one!

I respectfully disagree. I have been a season pass holder for almost 20 years. I have only been to opening day once, about 15 years ago...but I will be there this year. I can not wait to see The new/old International Street in person...so it is building excitement!

Well, this topic has derailed. I won't add anything except to say that the moderators/administrators have every right to moderate as they see fit. Reading and/or contributing to this site is not a free speech issue. The original poster (who asked for the post to be removed if not ok) was perfectly in line, and the staff was fine to ask not to post those pictures. Sometimes in life, there is grey instead of black and white. I trust the folks at the park and who run this site. I don't think I have seen this much drama on this site before, but I have only been around about 5 years.

My post was my experience. Theirs may be different. Also, to be clear, there’s another source of KI news on another platform in which one of the admins posted that the park would pull anyone’s season pass that “spreads a false rumor” or something like that. I can tell you as the person who was personally held accountable for nearly every park rumor for over a decade that I was never threatened to have my pass pulled or that I would be unwelcome at the park in any way. Nor was it ever discusses about for anyone on KIC for reasons like that. I find it hard to believe that they were told to post that. But I feel for the staff here. What do you do? The park wants to keep I Street quiet. They should respect that. But what is the threshold of that respect? I understand that flying a drone over the park shouldn’t be allowed, but what about public record? What if someone heard something from someone and it turned out to be true? Is that supposed to be censored? All I know is that this next offseason will be far far worse than this for the staff here.

Don't blame yourself. This issue has been bubbling up here for years. At one point mods were threatening bans for users not capitalizing ride names properly. It was directly attributed to an edict from the park. Theres been a number of other things over the years in a similar vein. This was coming at one point regardless. Theres clearly two sides to this issue(three if you count those who don't care either way). Neither is necessarily right nor is either necessarily wrong. As a customer of KI, I am not beholden to them to keep secrets nor am I stuck to their timetables for information being released. While on their property, I am required to, and do, go by their rules. While off their property, if I'm not breaking the law, theres nothing they can really do about it. I'm a paying customer. They don't pay me. Now there are members of this site who are employees of the park, and they have different rules, and I respect that. As for this site, by using this board, we are expected to abide by their rules if we want to keep using it. They have decided that the park has some level of control over what's posted here. How much control is not known to the public. I've seen glimpses of what they've been told, and by who, both posted publicly and private messages. Personally I feel it's an over-reach, but it's not my board. I, like others, would like more transparency. We've been given some vague guidelines, but no one, not even the mods, seem to know when those will change, or be applied to the more important decoding 2020 thread. If that one turns into a "wait for the park to release it" thread..... turn out the lights. As a point of comparison, the Universal and Disney parks have many boards covering them. They typically fall into two categories. One is where the boards post park press releases word for word, post glowing reviews, and generally stop any negative or "non public" info. Those are the ones where the owners get invited to media events, get comps, passes, hotel rooms, etc. The other is the ones that pretty much let anything go except clearly illegally taken photos. Those don't get recognized by the park nor any of the perks.

That's funny you mention that, because in a way, they actually did do joint work at one time. Walter Bolliger and Claude Mabillard were former Intamin employees! Which helps to explain why Intamin track used to look like this, and why B&M track looks as it does today... https://www.google.com/search?q=batman+the+escape&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjnqJ-pmPvgAhWEMd8KHbr1A74Q_AUIDygC&biw=1366&bih=657#imgrc=ptYZEIRw8UfL8M:

As it pertains to people assigning Mystic Timbers the denigrating status of "tweener" or "just a family coaster", these labels really do irk me... First off, while I know that some of you may roll your eyes at me making a Maverick comparison, but it is true that GCIs are similar to Blitz and Mega-lites in the sense of despite not being anywhere close to tallest and fastest rides in their parks, their compact elements compensate for their relative lack of speed and height, thus upping their intensities to a level comparable to the biggest coasters. "But Maverick has a 70 mph launch and a 95 degree drop!" Correct. However I'd argue the most intense part of the ride occurs on the first series of turns and first airtime hill - a part where I can imagine its not going much faster than 50 mph (based on 100ft drop). All I'm trying to say, stats or lack thereof, DO NOT necessarily translate into intensity. Think about how forceful Backlot's opening helix, despite it reaching a top speed of "only" 40 mph. Sigh. I bet there's some already writing off Copperhead Strike as a "family-style" launch coaster, because of going "only" 50 mph. But like I said, based on how compact and tight the layout and transitions on CH are... Don't worry, I don't think there's going to be any shortage of intensity on Carowinds' new launch coaster.

I hope its a giga. I think the flyer talk started just based on concept art we did. I do not agree that a flyer is in the mix. Just tired of doing giga's for the moment. I would personally love a blitz coaster and a giga. I'm good on a Dive, Wing or flying coaster. IMO - been there, done that. I think the world / The US could use more Blitz coasters =). BUT since it seems that KI is working with Boring and Mundane again I think it will be a giga. I just hope its as good if not better then Fury. If not Mill force reigns in Ohio!

To be honest, I actually like them about the same (which, needless to say, is A LOT) Just in very different ways. One of the reasons why the MT was such a home-run IMO, is that its not just another great wooden coaster for the park, its one whose ingenious mix of twister and out-and-back elements makes it truly distinct from the woodie found just a stone's throw away. So in other words, the answer to this question is "yes". They both go so well together. A journey in Rivertown is ever-incomplete, unless you take a ride on both.

I'm not quite seeing why Cedar Fair would want to systemically rid themselves of coasters/rides from a certain manufacturer, especially when said manufacturer is still fully in business and selling replacement parts. I believe Invertigo, Michigan's Thunderhawk, CW's Flight Deck, Bat etc., as with any other ride, will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. They will be will removed if their operating cost to rider ratio rises too high or face existential mechanical issues. Remember, the last thing a park wants to do is remove a ride, so there'd need be to a reason much more compelling than this "no more Vekoma" initiative that some think Cedar Fair is pushing.

I don't think the park ever has to throw us a bone, they've done so as a courtesy. When you have had people in the past purposely trespassing at the park because of something they read on KIC, as we had with Banshee, the requests of the park are more than acceptable. KIC has been around for several years, folks have respected what the moderators have asked for years and there have been numerous inconsistencies (not calling out any current or former mods)....if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to keep logging into KIC. This is my 10th year on the site and I've never seen such disrespect for the moderators and admin team as people are treating them because they don't like the simple requests. Good grief.

Guys... I only asked to share a simple photo of an aerial shot of I-Street. I could still share it off site but it’s just really not that interesting. It is a top down view of what they are doing. You legit can only see concrete work. I understand that the photo itself isn’t the point. I am just respecting the wishes of KIC and Kings Island. The park opens in a little over a month, and they will probably share an update of I-street sometime this month. Be patient everybody! Opening day is right around the corner.

Bodda's post disagrees with this. I've also seen conversations to the contrary. I, like others, would like an official statement on this, but know that's not going to be coming. I come here because you usually get quicker and better info about new rides and improvements before any other site. With a major addition coming next year, I'm concerned that things are going to be censored because "the park hasn't released it yet" and it's going to drive people to other sites. It's not been a problem in the past, but this international street thing has stooped to a new low of tampering. For Banshee and MT, blueprints/footer plans were posted before any kind of official release happened. If they are going to flip out over legal aerial photos for what amounts to some concrete and paver work, I can't imagine them allowing blueprints.

I get where both sides are coming from, although I agree all legally obtained items should be fair game. The only thing that didn't settle right with me was the last line of this. To me it felt so authoritative. Regardless I've been reading this thread for years and never took the time to contribute until reading this thread. I plan on doing so more now. I love the speculating and mystery solving as others have said. I hope this continues despite these regulations.

Ugh, tell me about! I heard a certain Youtuber (not gonna name names) refer to MT as a good ride, "but more of a family-style GCI", which really doesn't even make sense considering that compared to its GCI contemporaries, Mystic actually stacks up very well stats-wise. In fact... So there you have it. Despite the often spouted rhetoric of Mystic being a statistically underwhelming coaster... its actually the second tallest GCI to date, and among the fastest. So my question is if MT is "just a family coaster" then what does make of Gold Striker, Prowler, Renegade, Lightning Racer, Apocalypse etc.? Because MT is right up there with the biggest and fiercest of them. To those who found MT underwhelming, that is fine that's your opinion. But I take you're just not impressed by GCIs in general? If so, then you could probably consider yourself apart of a quite slim minority - of both GP and of enthusiasts - that doesn't love a tried-and-true GCI.

Obviously, this thread has gone way off topic, but I hope it is left intact. I think it's important that everything said here remains accessable to everyone. It would be a shame if this conversation we're deleted, and members were unable to contribute and refer to it.

This made me laugh harder than I should have.

These are all the B&M coaster models. The ones X'ed out are what I'm personally ruling out beyond reasonable doubt... Reasons to rule out: Invert: See Banshee Sitting: While I certainly wouldn't object, I'd be surprised if they went with this model and forgo the marketable "gimmick" of floorless trains. They're practically the same type of coasters anyway, just with different trains. Stand-up: HA! That's a good one... Family [Invert]: See Flying Ace Flying: Just removed Firehawk. Possibilities still in play: Wing or Dive: Many are ruling these out because of the presence of GateKeeper and Valravn, but I will ask this... Does anyone else feel like we take too much stock in the supposed proximity "issue" so commonly cited. After all, the presence of Raptor didn't stop Banshee. And if GK and Valravn would supposedly stop a wing or dive from happening, why wouldn't Rougarou then rule out a floorless? Is it because GK and Valravn are both still "too new" for KI to receive something similar, while Raptor and Rougarou are/were "old enough"? Is it because Inverts and Floorlesses are more of staples while Wings and Dives are more of novelties? Or am I answering my own question? Floorless: While you can't go wrong with a floorless, it just wouldn't seem like the blockbuster addition that KI would want. And if this means anything, the park's lineup currently features 20 total inversions, which puts them at being among the most in the world (https://rcdb.com/ib.htm). Any looping coaster would just be adding more to something we already have plenty of. Hyper [Giga]: This remains to me as the most likely candidate.

I really want a giga. They can give us a B&M looper and time after that!

Just throwin it out there, I wouldn't be upset if B&M gave us a great sit down coaster....something along the lines of Led Zeppelin Source

One would think...…..haha. Yes Meaningless and Bruised made a great coaster in Fury. Some of the other "Gimmick" coasters are fun but just meh to me haha. I hope its a giga. I just want a more aggressive ride. I wish B&M and Intamin would do joint work and make KI the biggest and baddest giga on earth. 499 feet tall. 105mph. Ejector air. Floater air. All of it haha

I miss the area-themed uniforms

This is a great article...thanks for sharing. I’ve often felt the same way about any “enthusiast” community. It’s almost like people “love” something so much, they criticize it mercilessly for never being able to live up to the imaginary expectations they’ve set for it. Star Wars, Star Trek and Marvel “super fans” are very similar (when was the last time you heard a Star Wars fan say they actually enjoyed a Star Wars movie?) The Disney super fans are pretty intense too...Disneyland paints a bench a new color and people freak out :-) It’s nothing new...back in the old rec.roller-coaster days I used to read the boards and think “these people actually love coasters?” I used to read and post a lot more on this site, but for multiple reasons don’t do so much anymore. Mostly because I’m in a job now where its not appropriate, but also because after many years on the site (going way back to when it was PKICentral and was the merger of two competing ethusiast sites...I can’t recall the name of the other one), the conversations and debates never really changed. (Still, as far as enthusiast sites go, I still enjoy this one more than a lot of the others...)

And going off what @IndyGuy4KI said, I think its important to remember that, as with many things, all it takes a few bad eggs to give a community a "bad reputation". I'd say the vast majority of enthusiasts are well-meaning, and positive. I'm happy to say that every time I've met up with people from here for example, whether at KI or at other parks, the experience has been great. Some of my most cherished memories at the park have been had with fellow KICers. -- Also, with regards to those "enthusiast" comments on Gwazi, I would say that YouTube commentary is not necessarily a good representation of overall sentiment, nor is it something that brings out the best in people.

None. Paid for by the company that I work for that needs aerial images for utility work. This is exactly what I’m getting at. You cannot even see anything, just some concrete work and foliage. You can’t even see the buildings.

Photos of new paint and freshly poured concrete are very, very exciting.

I think the 'hiding' of information is more due to the park catering to their bigger demographic in the GP. The GP aren't all that interested in the park during the off season. Sure, the park does utilize social media, but that's part of the PR department's job in an era where the internet is a HUGE part of the way society functions. Most news outlets don't cover anything about the park until within a month before the park opens (probably closer to a week or two before opening day). There's really not that much demand this year since the park's additions and upgrades aren't on par with a year where they add a new coaster. Like, really, is the rest of the tri-state area really clamoring for this information right now, especially right now during one of the biggest sports months for the area both with March Madness and Reds Opening Day (aka, Cincinnati's own holiday) coming up? Also, how much money are you guys dumping into getting few pictures via airplane? Is it really worth all that? It seems like going extraordinarily out of your way just to say you're that guy who got the information first.

No....why don't you ask @Dane if he is independent from the site. There's such a thing of a working-relationship...KIC scratches KI's back, KI scratches KIC's back. It is disrespect, Brad, Matthew and Robbie have responded and clarified the situation and that's not good enough for some people so they continue to argue about it. That's disrespect. ---- It's as if people believe that they are owed this information, if the park doesn't give the information, they act is if they are entitled to get it themselves. When Tony Clark tweets to tell people that obtaining pictures of Steel Vengeance is a no no, no one bats an eye...KI asks for that and we get "THAT'S CENSORING BECAUSE THEY ASKED KIC MODS TO NOT ALLOW IT!"

You're the one misconstruing a disdain for inconsistency and censorship as disrespect for the admins. Don't put that on those of us that just want a fair application of the rules. This site is either fully independent, or directly managed by the park. There's no in-between.

Really weird one last night! Brace yourselves: I was walking around a Kings Island expansion talking to a climate change skeptic. The thing was it was 12 degrees out! The skeptic pointed to the snow that was falling and said, "If the planet is getting warmer, explain the weather today." I launched into this long, scientific explanation about how manmade greenhouse gasses are weakening the Jet Stream and allowing the polar Vortex to spread. He then sighed and said, "You convinced me." Next thing I know, I was at a party at a house in Cincinnati, pinning together a map of the US that showed all the amusement parks and their corresponding soda. I finish the map and it disappears, revealing a plastic cup of soda. I drink it, then go to the dining room and pick up 15 cans of Sprite. While I am drinking the Sprite, a magazine about the history of Coke shows up in my hands and I start reading. Then, I jump forward in time when everyone at the party is being chased by a monster. Whatever I did before bed is now off-limits. I am done having these ridiculous dreams.

You are correct. They are fit to moderate how they want. But you know what ALWAYS kills a good thing? Inconsistency.

What do you mean by public record? Legally obtained aerial photography is part of the public record. I guess a lot of us are confused how blue prints, trademark registrations, etc. are fair game, but an aerial photograph isn't. Especially when a lot of those public documents are leaked because someone took an illegal photo at the local government office. If the policy is going to be more strict going forward, that's fine. Personally, I don't have confidence that everyone's resolve will hold when details of the 2020 coaster start leaking. I'll eat my words, but I don't believe that tread will be moderated as heavily as this thread.

So in other words, this IS NOT truly an "independent" site. As of now, if Kings Island says jump, you guys say "how high?" That's NOT what the average person here wants. The small bones the park throws to this site is not enough for the type of censorship we see here. It's ridiculous.

So why not let the marketing department do their job? I get the keeping things secret does not build excitement or create sales, but how can they build excitement and create sales when others try to do their job by leaking information earlier than necessary? I truly get both sides, especially wanting to know information myself, but why is it important to place the updates/secrets on KIC before the park divulges the information?

I'm not advocating for anyone to do anything illegal. Nor do I feel I have the right to anything. I'm on the opposite side. I like construction. I like seeing the process and how things are done. The how's and why's that they do things is fascinating to me. I probably will never ride the antique autos, but I like looking at the pics to see how it's being built. I also like the decoding aspect to new projects. Trying to figure out what's going on before it's announced. It's like a big puzzle. I have no problem with those who want no info and to be surprised. I largely stay away from movie sites for movies I want to see for that reason. It's easy enough for those who want to be surprised to avoid the decoding and rumor threads. Seeing whats going on with international street by the .0000000001% of their customer base that reads this isn't going to ruin anything for the park, nor will it cost them one cent. Micromanaging a message board and threatening people(if thats really whats going on) can cost them money. They could, but that's the job of their marketing department. To inform the public and build excitement for projects that will translate to sales. Keeping things secret does not build excitement or create sales.

Chaos Lab, Wolf Pack, Toxic Wasteland (my home scarezone)

Oh wow! That's pretty spiffy.

My latest giga concept. Come join the X-Force in 2020!

Double post, I'm sorry.... I happened to catch Copperhead Strike testing tonight and it looks like the trains have working headlights! Sorry for vertical video, just happened to grab my phone and start recording

yeah I know that!!!! I wasn't born yesterday come on I am an enthusiast! haha just messin. I want the 2 companies of today's world to join forces just one this on KI giga. IDC whos track they use lol. I want the best of both haha

This is great! What an awesome read that was. Coasters are coasters and I love every single one even if they bash my skull wide open and my spine breaks in 65 places ( im looking at you corkscrew). I love them still. I am happy that I got to ride them. it sucks a lot when people team up against others based on an opinion or what they like. Hell people get mad even if you talk about something they are not talking about at the moment. We are here to share the joy we have for coasters. We should not be against each other. Yes we all have opinions and they should be respected. You can delightfully disagree and have a civilized conversation. I would also love to ride with a person who hasn't been on the coaster we are about to get on. I can tell you this much. I have a smile on my face and laugh on every coaster I ride....good or bad. It would be a totally coring world without coasters. Lets enjoy what we have. I am also proud to be a member of this site. I think we have fun and have great conversation. We just need to respect each other and our opinions.

but but what about "Space beast" lol @MDMC01 That was my concept lol

Then they wouldn’t be doing their jobs.

I'd say blueprints are just documents...where as ariel photos actually shows 100% of what's happening/done.

Just thought this would be a good place to share a pic of International Street that my uncle took in 1972.