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This has been perhaps the most tired and flimsy narrative relating to this topic (what the guy from reddit said). It has resurfaced time and time again, on this site, on others, in YouTube comments sections etc. But to me it just doesn't hold up. Let me explain... Yes, while it is true that CW and Carowinds are growing at faster rates than KI, this should not be conflated with "they have surpassed" or even met up with KI in terms of Cedar Fair's hierarchy. As you pointed out, KI already has remarkable attendance as it is, more than enough attendance to justify a giga. For the record, as of 2016, KI alone makes up 14% of CF's revenue, CW's share was 10%, and Carowinds 7-8%. In other words, even with CW and Carowinds expanding, they've still got some catching up to do before they can even get to KI's level . Remember, Cedar Fair WANTED Kings Island more than any other park. IIRC Paramount used this as leverage to rid themselves of the chain wholesale in 2006, forcing Cedar Fair to buy all five of the parks. I wouldn't be surpirsed if they'd have bought some of the others anyway, but it was paramount (pun not intended) that they acquire KI. In fact, Cedar Fair even tried to purchase Kings Island as early as 2000. Reportedly, it fell through because of a $40 million dollar tax liability that would have been contigent upon the sale (Source). Kinzel himself described it as "his favorite park outside the Cedar Fair system". --- Ok, and now on to the wing coaster theory.... So first off, there's the fact that the land clearing at this point has become way too big for what a conventional wing would take up. And then there's Mike Koontz specifically saying he's requested a giga at Coasterstock 2018. (For those of you wondering where exactly he said this: https://youtu.be/I3BxfbjxMgc?t=1304) AND there's the simple fact that a wing coaster from the general public's perspective would not be all that different from Banshee (large, graceful inversions, vest restraints). The same could be said for a giga to an extent, but CF has proven with Fury and Leviathan that they're OK with having a B&M hyper and giga coexist in the same park. -- But even if that's not enough... Depending on how you look at it, wing coasters actually are much worse value than a 6000ft + giga would be, particularly if we're going by $ divided by track length (I know, odd metric - but it explains my point). GateKeeper: $25 million / 4,164 ft = $6003.84 per foot of track Fury: $30 million / 6,602 ft = $4544.07 per foot of track My thoughts exactly. If KI doesn't warrant significant investment into a new thrill ride (as some are claiming), then why in the world would they be building any coaster at all? We know its a B&M, and almost any B&M these days is bound to be well over $20 million (sans Dive and maybe floorless), so they might as well go the extra mile for something that will have much longer-lasting value than a wing coaster. Wings are partially reliant on novelty IMO - novelty which diminishes... Its the giant sit-down coasters found in hypers and gigas that stand the test of time. Going off of what was mentioned above about Millie. Its in its 20th year of operation, and its still by many accounts the signature attraction of Cedar Point (I know a decent amount of GP who still prefer it over SV).

If and when they start pouring footers, look for the one in the following picture. This is from Fury 325. Leviathan also had a footer exactly like this. It is the start of the lift hill. Dead giveaway for a B&M Giga or not.

It's good to be back to decoding. I missed the MT decoding thread as it was a busy time of my life, but I intend to follow this one. This looks like it is going to be massive. The land cleared (so far) opens up enormous possibilities. I don't see how this is anything other than a giga. Also, please save as many trees as possible!

I think the clearing with get bigger yet but I'm imagining something like this

New giga concept! Photo credit goes to @sixohdieselrage The name is The Visionary

That’s probably one of the most realistic, better-looking designs yet.

^ While yes Carowinds and CGA are receiving larger investments then they were previously do not get the impression Kings Island is being put on the back burner. Cedar Point for example is not growing a large amount but they still receive large investments due to how much revenue the park brings in, Somewhat Same situation for Kings Island (Even though Kings Island is still breaking their attendance records), Kings Island still brings in a huge amount of revenue and because of that the park will continue to receive large investments

This wouldn’t be a bad move in the future, however, if Kings Island builds a giga, this is the time and this will most definitely be the place. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Keep in mind, KBF is open year round. Also, if anyone wants to see the video of the flyover yesterday, here it is. I'll reload it later. Not sure why, but I uploaded it in 4k, but it's not available as an option on watching it.

I still can't get over how well the Auto's were done.

I do, in fact, believe the park is replacing some, if not all, of their maintenance buildings because it would allow them to drastically increase the size of X-Base and make it more roomy to accommodate for the increased foot traffic of a new attraction However, I do not see them demolishing the current maintenance buildings until some of the ones under contraction are completed because the park needs those to work on rides and launch fireworks throughout the operating season

On the whole spending debate- this is the same chain that built both Intimidator coasters in the same off-season, so it isn't that unlikely another CF park could still get something on the large side along with KI.

Nice observation.

No one is arguing they aren't spending Money on CW. But some of that, and at Carowinds, is to get it up to the level of KI, CP, etc. KI already has a water park bigger than CW, plus a well rounded ride lineup, so they don't need to spend that money on it. That means they have more money to spend on big coaster. You just have given no sort of proof that they aren't spending money at KI. The opposite has actually been proven. Since 2009, they have built/are building 3 B&M's and a GCI. That's serious investment. There is more evidence that this a a giga than a wing. The Mike Kuntz interview linked above at least shows the park has been looking at a giga. Look at the other parks and see what CF has built. At CP they built a giga long before a wing or dive. At CW they built a Giga before a dive and do not have a Wing. At Carowinds they built a giga and do not have a wing or dive. So now you think at KI they will reverse that trend? Theres absolutely nothing saying they are even considering a Wing. KBF is a conundrum. It is year round and does big numbers, but is pretty limited on what they can do that. They don't seem to spend as much there as you'd think. It'll also always be in DL and SFMM's shadow.

Why do people think that’s all the clearing that’s going to happen and the park has only been open for 2 weekends? R-E-L-A-X. It’s still April. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As the clearing gets bigger the layout will change a bit but that’s more or less what I see too. Station over where Firehawk was, yeet through the woods over by/past The Beast, and come back. As is, that clearing looks way too small for a giga but I’d bet they’re not done.

^^Also Diamondback in 2009

With the relatively small amount of land and the fact that it looks to be leveled out, I think those reds circle along with the structure going up by the boneyard are going to be a new overall maintenance building area. My thoughts are because they are much farther away from the other clearing and it would make sense if they are redoing Xbase for a new land/remodeled land to take out the bottleneck of the current maintenance area. It is hard to judge by the picture but the pad where a building is being constructed by the boneyard is roughly 172 ft long (using Google Earth and taking into approximation compared to the length it is compared to the existing boneyard (Approximately 238 ft long). Even if you just look at being 75 ft. wide that gets you to 12,900 sq. foot. The white building closest to the back is approximately 43' by 62' (2,666 sq. foot) and the red building right beside it is approximately 63' by 170' (10,710 sq. foot). The red building would easily fit into that space and the white building almost does when you combine the two. It is hard to measure the exact size of the new space and with the estimates of the existing buildings it is quite possible they could be combined those two into that space beside the boneyard. If you take into account the other two circles, they could easily fit the other building sizes into those areas. That would free them up to do whatever they wanted with the existing maintenance area to build restrooms, a restaurant, and the new coaster along with the ability to add future flats in that area.

I just don’t understand how a Wing coaster (Or any B&M) after 3 years makes total sense but the second it’s a giga coaster after three years it’s finical ruin for Cedar Fair. No matter what B&M they’re building it’s going to be expensive, what Cedar Fair is going to look at is what coaster model will they get the most ROI, and it seems wing coasters, which are expensive didn’t seem to perform all that great at Cedar Point. Now look at valravn, it constantly has long line and wasn’t all that expensive compared to GateKeeper, thus we’re now seeing more Dive coasters being built. Now Fury 325 was a MASSIVE success for Carowinds and In my opinion Cedar Fair saw the success of Fury which had a high ROI and will install one at one of the most important parks in the chain.

Investing in one park does not mean they can't invest in another. They have built/are building 4 major coasters at KI in 11 years. In that same time period Cedar Point, which dwarfs both CS and KI in revenue and attendance received two new coasters and two redo coasters(Rougarou and SV). KBF, which is on par with CP in revenue and attendance got a wild mouse, lost a boomerang and had a coaster refurb. CW got 3 coasters. Clearly they are investing in KI. They are actively building a B&M there right now. How can you say that the other parks are a bigger priority when their single biggest investment this year is going into KI? I don't see the logic there.

I seriously doubt Winterfest had anything to do with it. All incarnations of Winterfest until last year did just fine with (all six of) the pedestals in the fountain. I think someone looked at the estimate for replacement or refurbished pedestals and I thought "we're going to go another direction". I hope someday the same decision is not made for the Eiffel Tower.

^ Wow! I love this answer, tons of great information here. I'm also really not sure I buy the argument that $30 million for a Giga is just WAY TOO MUCH but $24 million for Banshee was just fine. Not that it isn't a significant difference in price, but I'm sure it will also be a significant difference in results, though I love Banshee.

This is my design, I’ll erase the scribbling sometime after next April.

Here is a topographic map of the area. I’ve shaded in gray what has already been cleared. My guess is they will continue clearance to the end of that ridge and that would be a great spot for the turnaround. Also some awesome views of the river!

Yes... Although it was a special... So it wasn't on the menu board, nor did it even have a placard. I usually always check to see what new options are there... As it keeps the dining plan "exciting" add the season goes on. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Look at all this space they can use. Will be a crying shame if it's NOT a giga.

At Coney Bar-B-Que, the dining plan includes one entrée and one side. This includes permanent choices as well as specials.

You sure about that? Just looked through GateKeeper construction and no where under the lift hill was a footer like the two that I tagged in my post.

I think the first drop will be located in those clearings and make a turn back up to the clearing close to The Racer. It's actually a significant amount of space, couple with they added on to a clearing that was already there makes me think they are making enough room for the amount of space needed for the long drop and turn.

Hate to burst your bubble but please look through Gatrkeeper's construction pictures and Valraven. That appears to be a new thing on most of the newer B&M foster models. The key will be the base of the column exiting the first drop, the Gigas are the only ones that feature that type of footing at both pre lift and post drop locations.

As much as I love the look and feel of the classic Arrow trains, I would be all for the Vekoma MK-1212 trains. If Vortex ever received those trains, its already good ride experience could be even BETTER. Not to mention that many who are turned off by Vortex's jerkiness/roughness would perhaps be willing to give it another shot. I still think Vortex is great the way it is, but I'm not opposed to any improvements!

Probably some sort of ride servicing facility or for pipe work or electrical work. That is a very small area to clear, and kind of far away from most of the clearing. Plus, one of the ride boneyards would be in plain view of a new coaster if it went out that way. It would be awesome if they are laying out the new coaster out that way though! Could be wrong though.

Nice review and pics @Drummermattk!

It’s from the annual presentation for investors, there was a pair of pie charts, one showing revenue, one showing earnings after expenses. You can find these on Cedar Fairs corporate website, but the last year they provided this information was 2016.

@Cedar Fair Fanboy that teaser thing was brought in by someone to troll the enthusiasts. Anyways, just came up with what the lift hill could look like from the tower! Credit for the pic goes to Ohio Valley Coasters!

It's time! I've included one of DB splashdown as well above. It's a screenshot of the video. I'll upload it later to YT, and add the link here. Enjoy!

The clearing now extends all the way back next to The Beasts mid course break shed and into the ravine under its second drop. Whatever it is going to be.... it’s huge

Welcome to KIC @cdanielle90! We hope you report your experiences at the park this year and join the conversations on the board.

I’m all in on Cedar Fair Fanboy lol. How many times is that stupid poster going to have to be removed. I think we’re at 4 or 5 now.

Want to start a pool for how long till the obvious troll with multiple accounts gets perma banned?

Also Land clearing behind Banshee as the big airtime hill is going to jump over it.

To those who haven't seen them, I have aerial pictures a couple pages back that I took today.

The train looks great too Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Ok guys so this is my first time being part of the speculation concerning a new ride, and I'm really enjoying reading this though I don't have much to add. I do have a question though about something I read in r/Rollercoasters. To keep it brief, in a thread about this very topic a guy said he was more expecting a wing coaster, when I asked why he said this Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I get what he's saying about the Cincinnati area, but at the same time it was my understanding that Kings Island is more heavily attended than Carrowinds which does have a Giga, I had also read somewhere that Cedar Fair intended to build Kings Island into more of a destination park than it is right now, though I don't have a source on that.

I think the better question is: who doesn’t want to see these pictures?

I just got out of a plane. Who wants to see some pictures?

^I dunno about. Floorless and wings are actually pretty different experiences to me.

^ To answer your question, I wouldn't think so... Or at least, I don't envision a coaster coming to any of the other top 7 parks next year except KI. 2018: CP - Steel Vengeance KD - Twisted Timbers KBF - Hangtime CGA - Railblazer 2019: Carowinds: Copperhead Strike CW: Yukon Striker 2020: KI - B&M The timeline is fully in our favor atm.

I think that they might go with an aviation theme for X-Base. It would make perfect sense!

An Aviation theme could certainly work in that area.