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Showing content with the highest reputation on 11/07/2020 in all areas

  1. I have followed the legacy of "The Bat" ever since I saw it operate on my first trip to KI as a kid. I seemingly learn more about it every few months. Here's what I've been able to put together re: the original topic of this thread... As far as any information I've ever seen, the operational design for "The Bat" at Kings Island was never seriously intended to have inversions. The design in question could likely be an early layout concept presented to the park in when they first held serious meetings with Arrow about the idea. Arrow had been developing the concept of the suspended coaster as early as 1977 - 4 years prior to "The Bat" opening. That same year, the "Screamin Demon" premiered at KI - giving KI their first "large" steel coaster (albeit a shuttle.) Its highly likely that, at the time the park was investing in "Screamin Demon", they saw Arrow's initial designs for the suspended. By 1978, the documentary "America Screams" showed the public the very first concepts of the suspended prototypes. There was a working model, with an inversion... and a full scale, ridable coaster without an inversion. Its no secret that KI began eying another coaster install in 1978 - before they even finished building "The Beast." By then, quite a few advancements had been made in steel coaster technology. Arrow had grand success - loopers and shuttles were popping up all over the country. KI already had an Arrow looper (albeit a shuttle) and knowing the impending success they'd have with "The Beast" they obviously wanted (and felt pressure to) follow it with something groundbreaking. Knowing the manufacturer was the leader in new coaster technology (at the time), they likely had kept tabs on the suspended coaster that Arrow had yet to sell. Walt Davis, Kings Island's Director of Park Operation at the time went to Arrow's plant in 1978 where he rode the first prototype and initiated design meetings with Arrow about bringing the concept to KI. I was actually able to check with a source I have that was affiliated with Arrow at the time of "The Bat" and they clarified a few things for me. Out of respect, I am keeping the source confidential. I asked about the 2nd prototype that included an inversion. I was told that Arrow did test the possibility of incorporating inversions on their suspended coaster design, but that never made it past that stage. They said the test track that was built - with the inversion - never ran with more than a string of train chassis. (To their knowledge.) They did not know the specifics of the plans seen in Orion's queue specifically, but said they were likely a part of the initial "idea" designs Arrow presented KI in the earliest stages of development. Basically a "here's our options for that area." It took over 18 months for the design and engineering to be finalized... before construction began.. so that likely dates those plans to early 1979 at the latest. The person I spoke with elaborated a bit about the issues Arrow faced with the ride. Much has been made of the issues "The Bat" had with the unbanked track, the braking system, the overswing etc. But apparently MAJOR concerns involved the strain on the chassis themselves. We all know that on May 21st in 1982, "The Bat" abruptly shut down mid-operation due to what the park would only explain as a "mechanical malfunction." But I now know that the chassis on car #2 and #3 cracked while riders were on board halting the train at the bottom of lift #2. This became a HUGE safety concern for the park, especially because it endangered riders, and apparently they were incensed with Arrow. It was during the 1982 shutdown that Arrow reworked the design of some of the supports, supplied new train chassis, and added multiple shocks to absorb the stress etc etc etc - all at their cost. Of course "The Bat" was reopened in 1983, but continued to literally tear itself apart. I was told that after the final closure, Kings Island forced Arrow to foot the bill and remove it. Its been rumored that there was some sort of an "agreement" meant as good will between Arrow and KI that ultimately resulted in Vortex being built... but I've never personally heard/seen proof of that. This ultimately put Arrow into a state of financial ruin and the company fired half the staff. Walt Davis, who had overseen the project for KI - left after the debacle. He went on to plan and oversee "The Beach" and the US division of Togo. I'm not sure the date in which the 2nd prototype was built at the plant - its likely it was being done at the same time they were developing/building "The Bat" as it was a constantly evolving process. I know the original source of the picture in question - but not its date. Its is obvious that it was prior to their obvious need to bank the track. I hope to reach out to them soon to date the picture. Arrow survived, of course, but the concept of the inversions didn't. Its fun to see a video of what the ride would have looked/felt like with inversions - I enjoyed watching it. But it was never meant to operate that way.
    5 points
  2. I hope that everyone is having a good day today. As we know, the coronavirus has impacted all of our plans for amusement parks, and I am among the ones who was impacted. When the news came during my spring break that I would have to move out of my dorm for the semester, I knew things were serious, and I also understood at that point that it would be horrible if my parents got it (they are near the age range where it could be dangerous). I felt like at that moment I could never go to an amusement park again for the year, but thankfully things have worked out for me, and it started late June early July. My parents let me go to Beech Bend Park in Bowling Green Kentucky during that time, I went twice in a week, and it was good to get used to amusement park rides again. Following my two visits to beech bend, I was hoping to go to Holiday World and Kings Island the following week, but my parents were extremely nervous about me going so I had to stay home. I felt hopeless, I had to cancel my reservation for July 9 at Kings Island with the reservation system, and the money for Holiday World was gone. I thought I could never go back at that point to amusement parks, but I did manage to get a picture of a smaller Drop Tower control panel at Beech Bend Park in late August early September, and on that day as well I went to the corvette museum in bowling green Kentucky which was amazing for car nerds! I was so upset I couldn’t go to amusement parks me and my parents got into arguments with me if I could go, they didn’t realize all Kings Island was doing to keep us safe, and I was going through a phase of depression (don’t blame my parents at all they want to be safe). I finally mentioned that I wanted to be with my best friend in Ohio, sweet VortexBFForever or my best friend of all time, and my parents finally opened up to listening to me and my reason. We agreed I could go October third as long as I was caught up on school work, which I was, and I was super excited! I realized that October third was a Saturday, so me and VortexBFForever both got Fast Lane, but she was working that morning to around three at Kings Island. That only gave me and her about two and a half hours to hang out, I had to leave by five thirty to make it home to Nashville Tennessee safe, as I was up for a while at that point and didn’t want to fall asleep at the wheel. I also had been messaging with Steph or Emotional Roller Coasters on instagram, we were going to ride slingshot that day, as she had never ridden it before. I will explain that part later, for now let us start the epic journey that started at three thirty October third 2020, and I didn’t plan to get up that early. I woke up at three thirty for no reason other than excitement for Kings Island, so I waited till four am to get out of bed, and then I got ready. I was ready to go by five am, so I left my house at five am from Nashville Tennessee, and I left the gas station around five thirty (a hour early). For the next four and a half hours I drove through a lot of stuff, the drive went well, but it felt long between Nashville and Louisville. When I arrived at Kings Island, I let me parents know I had made it safe, and I also let VortexBFForever know I was there. I immediately went to get my Fast Lane dealt with, then I proceeded to get tickets for slingshot for me and Steph, and I knew she was in line for Orion so I went to ride bat. I rode in the next to last row on bat by myself, it was quite fun, and it was my second ride on bat. After bat I went back to slingshot to message VortexBFForever for a bit, I was wondering where steph was, and I realized I have something called a phone I can message steph with on instagram. Steph told me it might be a little bit, so I went to ride Delirium by myself, and I thought of something while riding it. This part was hard to write but I am making it through it ok: on June 16th 2020, my brother Matthew passed, and he was 22 years old (two years older than me in case you are wondering). He passed due to an epileptic seizure in the middle of the night, I was the first to find him that way, but he was peaceful and he looked comfortable. During my first visit to Kings Island in 2018 and my only ride on Firehawk while going up the lift hill, I wondered if this is what he does daily, which is flying as an angel. Firehawk still to this day is one of my favorite rides of all time, but something I always tell myself is that Matthew would never do any of the rides I have done at Kings Island or beech bend park, and I am sure he is extremely proud of me for that. Going back to October third, I was starting to get nervous on Delirium (darn general anxiety disorder), and I yelled: “are you proud of me for this brother?” I could have swore I heard his laugh, which made anyone happy, and I started to tear up a little bit on Delirium but happy tears knowing he is a better place. Matthew I am sure is extremely proud of me for doing the rides I did on October third or in general. After Delirium, I waited about twenty minutes for Steph, and I was extremely happy when I saw her! It was the first time we have met, she got a giant hug from me instead of the normal with coronavirus, and we had an awesome time waiting for and riding slingshot! Unfortunately the video wasn’t working for slingshot, so I didn’t get a video for me second and steph’s first slingshot ride, but we had an awesome time on it! If I am able to get photos from her family I will post them here later. After waiting for nearly a hour in line for slingshot and riding it with Steph, I hung out with her and her family, and they were silly. Her sisters are crazy as Steph put it, but her family along with Steph was awesome, and it was time for me to take my next round of anxiety medicine so we got some food and a drink (I stuck with a Coke and no food for the rides later). When Steph had to ride Mystic Timbers with her family, I gave her a giant hung thanking her, and I now waited for thirty minutes for VortexBFForever near the front of Kings Island. You would think it would be hard to spot her without our favorite emotional support dragon named toothless, but when she runs past you wearing Vortex gear, it isn’t hard either. I tried to hug her but she was a women on a mission to get Vortex parts for her friends, which I understood, but she did get me out of breath from near the front to the emporium (she is a fast silly runner). I was however thankful that she ran quick though, there were only around five track pieces left from what I remember, and there was a line behind us. She wasn’t ordering the track piece for her, she was getting two for two friends, and those friends must be beyond thankful for her. After she had dealt with the track piece, we were finally able to hug after the run, and she gives wonderful hugs as always! We decided to start with Delirium, which was awesome, and I let go of her hand and the harness near the top of it which is quite fun! She did make a funny observation later, I only got really nervous and needed to hold her hand during the scans for safety, and it happened in every ride with her. We decided to hit Invertigo next, as I forgot to get the cheap tickets for skyflyer that morning and I didn’t get them due to the limited time I had at the park, and it was my first ride on Invertigo going backwards. We decided to sit at the very back going backwards (or front depending on how you look at it), so we went down the first drop backwards, and thankfully she counted and let me know when it was about to drop much like our other Invertigo rides. I have a weird thing where my head needs to be forward on Invertigo so my glasses don’t accidentally break (they have never but I am nervous about that happening), but my first backwards ride on Invertigo was quite intense, and I found out it was one of her favorite things along with Vortex and the loops. I can handle Vortex fine, but backwards on Invertigo made me feel coaster drunk getting off of it, and more coaster drunk than a normal ride on Invertigo going forward first. After the adventure on Invertigo, I told sweet VortexBFForever that I was ready for Drop Tower next, and I truly was ready to be amazed! We waited only about ten to fifteen minutes at most for Drop Tower, I was watching it in awe while I waited, and I knew I had to do it. Once we were inside the seat of Drop Tower, I got incredibly nervous, but thanks to the extremely tight harness I felt better on Drop Tower. Once I had my buckle on Drop Tower, I had to hold sweet VortexBFForever hand immediately, as I was extremely nervous. She had told me plenty of times before to wait for the top of the Drop Tower, hear a click, and count to between six and eight and then it would drop. I knew that when I sat down, but I still asked her to count for me, as I wasn’t going to look for the top of the tower and she thankfully counted. When she got to six, I said “holy”, click again, F&!$ right as soon as it dropped because I was so nervous and scared. I was expecting an extremely rough drop, but what I got was an extremely smooth drop on Drop Tower at Kings Island, and it is now one of my favorite rides at Kings Island. When we got off Drop Tower I knew I had conquered a fear of heights, I received a lot of praise from VortexBFForever herself, and I was extremely happy I had finally done it during my fifth visit to Kings Island. After the adrenaline show of Drop Tower, we went to Orion for my final ride of the day, and I had a lot of memories pop up from the fateful day of October 28 2018 (closing day or the last day Firehawk was in operation where I rode Firehawk thanks to VortexBFForever and it is still my number one coaster or ride of all time). On the way to Orion though, I finally realized how much space Vortex took up, and even during my fifth visit to Kings Island it felt weird not seeing the second loop of Vortex in coney mall. When we arrived at Orion, we almost forgot to get a locker for our things, but thankfully the crew at Orion helped us with a friendly reminder. I can’t say how much I love the theme of area 72, but as a person who loved the Area 51 memes due to how stupid they were, it made me laugh and be happy seeing area 72 at Kings Island. When we got to the top of the queue of Orion, we got an odd row so I could hold sweet VortexBFForever hand again, and soon it was off. I didn’t look down until the 300 foot drop, but I was in awe for the whole ride, and I was laughing most of the ride! What really made me laugh was when VortexBFForever said: “This part is what I call the Kuh-Kaw moment!” I soon found out that moment was a massive airtime which I actually enjoyed for once, but it was also a reference to our Firehawk ride from 2018, as she did say that when we were about to exit Firehawk from the seat. Orion, you are currently among one of my favorite rides of all time, and it goes with my number one rides/coasters of all time which are Vortex Firehawk and now Orion. I understand that some may think I am a GP for saying that, but having not experienced any other Giga coaster, I was in awe of Orion being my first one. After the laughter and memories of Orion, I had to head home, so me and VortexBFForever along with her friend Drew headed to the front, and I was beyond thankful for that day. After leaving the gas station in mason, I had a four and a half hour drive ahead of me, where the drive went well, and I made it home safe to Nashville Tennessee. My parents were amazed with all I rode that day, but they wanted me to be safe, and so I explained and confirmed that this is clearly a “safe place due to the coronavirus.” I am beyond thankful for the help I have received thanks to everyone here and the season pass holder page on Facebook, thank you VortexBFForever [mention]VortexBFForever [/mention] and Steph (I don’t know if she is on KIC but we will soon find out) for dealing with me, and thank you Kings Island for the amazing day! Attached to this post at the bottom are the photos before I rode Drop Tower and the photos Steph’s dad took during our slingshot ride. I hope y’all have a wonderful rest of the day. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    4 points
  3. Here it is, my full review of Orion... In what may be the most divisive roller coaster in the industry, since it's announcement Orion was split down the middle with the GP and enthusiasts that had excitement and dissatisfaction. Many aspects of the ride was critically dissected from it's theme, layout, height and overall experience. I made my own interpretations but knew when it came to my first ride I would clear those preconceived notions and go into the experience with an open mind. That being said on a cold windy day on its final operating day of its opening year of 2020 I finally was able to make that decision. I had the opportunity to ride twice, once in the front and the back. First off, big applause to the crew that did a fantastic job under the circumstances of the many operation changes in 2020. They still brought the great standards we have come to love with Cedar Fairs crew. Starting the ride and moving Into the lift I began my initial thoughts. The height while riding definitely feels like a giga coaster providing amazing views. Seeing us raise higher and above WindSeeker was a great opportunity to see new perspectives; However, I found myself turning back to gaze at the park as the direction of the lift facing the back of the park didn't provide the views I had hoped. Cresting the top and going into the drop was by far the best moment in the ride creating quite possibly the best airtime moment in any of the coasters in the park and left me in an audible GASP and expletive words leaving my mouth it true shock (especially moreso in the back). The front seat unfortunately does not whip you over. The length of the drop itself though was short left me wanting more on such a tall coaster. It reminded me of Millennium Force where the long crest gave a better sensation of a longer, more intimidating drop. While I do love the whip into the steep drop, I ultimately felt the drop on Millennium Force was the experience I prefer. The transition into the wave turn and turnaround were... well... tame. Once again B&M had such speed to take advantage of and forces that could have been utilized but they came limited. The airtime coming out of the wave turn was nice but after experienced the tremendous drop it didn't fill that gap of continuing the momentum, instead leading into a rather forceless two following elements. The speed, while fast just did not feel like 90mph. I was noticing a rather familiar sence of speed when riding Diamondback. Going into the low airtime hill was just as I would hope. Full of great air. After riding Leviathan and loving the low to ground transitions the low airtime hill did not disappoint, but after two lackluster previous elements and a trimmed larger airtime hill where air on Diamondback provide more positive Gs, so much of the excitement had been lost. At this point in the ride I knew the ride experience was already nearing it's end but still had the unique helix and final turn. The helix is where that momentum in speed is all but lost, while still providing neg Gs, it was low. I did have a slight gray out However, the element felt that it could have used better banking and tighter turns to break the it's element into more than just a slightly banked turn. Thankfully the following final turn provided that great over bank I so wanted in the helix. Underwhelmed by the helix the final turn was a nice pop of air but the ride leading to that point had left a sour taste. In conclusion, Orion is a great roller coaster full of some amazing elements and an amazingly smooth rollercoaster, quite possibly one of the smoothest I've ever experienced. I only wish the layout had more thought involved. It's location and height had such a tremendous opportunity to truly create a custom layout that differentiates itself from the pack of other B&M gigas. Though I will say I do appreciate that Kings Island has finally got its giga even if it isn't the one that I had hoped for. Conclusion Orion is a great roller coaster line up to Kings Island. Regardless of the overall experience it cannot be disputed that it is a good ride.
    3 points
  4. My traffic to this site has lowered (I know for a fact multiple other users have lowered their traffic to this site too) because of certain users on this site. Now I'm not saying this site needs me (I know it doesn't, I do not contribute that much), but I do know it is problematic if many users (especially good, quality users who contribute informative content) stop coming here daily. I hate to say it but this site has mirrored the tone of our country. Decisive. Hostile. A you vs me mentality. I know the moderators do not want that. I also know they are trying their best. Its a sad time and I do not know how to move forward and bring back the happy, good feel of the website.
    2 points
  5. Some floor less trains on mystic could be fun
    1 point
  6. I missed a few details when I read this in the other thread, but re-reading this full report...ouch. A 78% drop in revenue is just...wow. The fact that they were able to make what they did, with the shortened calendar, some parks not evening opening, and significant attendance drops is good--it was worth it for CF to get open what they could (with as minimal costs as possible, more later). At least some revenue was realized. I think this goes into why there wasn't Haunt/Winterfest at KI (yes I know Haunt is over, but CF has ongoing visibility into their numbers, while we only get post quarter data). There is a lot of labor/cost turning the park over for various seasons. So for these events to be financially successful, there must be enough revenue to cover operational costs (just covering the days the park is open), all preparation costs (physical transformation labor, marketing, hiring/training, etc.), overhead, and have positive revenue at the end to justify the effort (cashflow to pay down ongoing debt). Keep in mind that 78% revenue drop (from recent data they have on-hand), that hangs heavy. Compared to the "regular season" how many people going through the gates would be Season Pass holders for Winterfest 2020? Season Passes were extended, so no additional incentives for people to pre-buy next year's tickets. So how many would pay gate prices for tickets to Winterfest this year? From a business perspective, that is going to have big impacts for future park decisions. There are going to be many eyes watching the expenses closely (debt load, costs, etc). I agree with other's thoughts, anything that is going to drain the budget (big ticket maintenance) may get pulled. Unfortunately, nostalgia doesn't pay the bills for a publicly traded company. Also, they've already mentioned reduced Capex spending, but I wouldn't be surprised that any major expansion is indefinitely on-hold until revenue turns around. From the report: "Zimmerman concluded by adding, “Our teams are fully committed to executing upon a strategy for 2021 that taps into what we believe will be meaningful pent-up consumer demand to visit our parks and experience what’s new and improved since their last visit.'" If they already believe there is pend-up demand, there is no immediate incentive for major spend. Sorry, that has a heavy downer vibe...
    1 point
  7. Thank you very much Shaggy for getting the facts on this and clearing this up.
    1 point
  8. If they get something from Mack I want it to be something like Helix
    1 point
  9. That is what Kings Island is missing. A low to the ground, fast paced multi launched coaster. Vekoma, Intamin or Mack come to mind with Cedar Fair being predictable and going with Mack
    1 point
  10. Orion crew was incredible every single day. Capacity was awesome all things considered. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    1 point
  11. I wouldn’t say it’s not pretty. It’s better than expected. Yeah, under normal circumstances this would be a devastating quarter but these aren’t normal circumstances.
    1 point
  12. Was in Mason earlier when I saw the original post and drive past park on way home. Drove past and thought... "Hoax." Then noticed the hooks (for the star)... and then noticed that the lights going down really get lost in the sunlight. Hoping the lights on the star are finally bright enough to see outside the parking lot. Probably not an indication of a winter event, though it would be a pleasant surprise. They did clear the Fall stuff out FAST though. They still had Christmas things up/out in March earlier this year.
    1 point
  13. If they do a taste of the season, I hope they have some weeknights between Christmas and New Years Eve (I work weekends.) If they are not doing a tasting event, It is really nice to go to the effort of giving locals the Christmas tree. Of course, there is a loyalty reason but still a great gift.
    1 point
  14. This is the first season I've missed since '03, and I'm really sad that there's no Winterfest. If they light up the Tower, I may make the three hour round trip just to drive by and see it.
    1 point
  15. I would think that if they were only going to light the tower (which would be nice....)- they would have made that announcement because something like this would take on a life of its own.... Maybe a "hey, because 2020 has sucked for us all- even though we won't be open, we're doing this..."
    1 point
  16. I think it makes too much sense. If Ohio has been so pleased with how Cedar Fair handled the crowds and pandemic rules, as has been said, and the chain is planning to do a modified version at KD and Carowinds, why not also Kings Island? Hope very much it comes together.
    1 point
  17. 1 point
  18. The Bansheelover family was supposed to visit this beautiful park, but we all know why we did not this year. However we will be there next June! I personally cannot wait to get 10+ rides on Shivering Timber’s.
    1 point
  19. The issues you guys are bringing up have been addressed today. Thanks for voicing your concerns.
    1 point
  20. Brass Ring was a really cool concept - it was themed to look like a merry-go-round, and all the food was originally on a large revolving platform, akin to a carousel. No indoor seating, just a covered open-air patio to the side (similar to today's Juke Box Diner). Here's a better picture of it, from KICentral's photo gallery / Reggie Zippo: Based off park guides, articles, and photos, it was added with the Coney Island expansion in 1975 and its last year was 1981. In 1982 it became Cafe Mexicana, though it retained its carousel appearance.
    1 point
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