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"B&M is too expensive..." ...so let's buy Intamin to appease some ACERs and spend infinitely more on maintaining it the next ten years while getting less in return?

For posterity, here's grainy concept art for the Festhaus, as well as a pic of how it actually looked when it was first built. Trivia: For 1983, the existing Beirgarten was remodeled and the bridge that extended over the Octoberfest pond was added - as to drive traffic between the two venues.

First of all, its Mystic Timbers hands down. However, Orion still does have great theming. MT essentially is built around its' theme, which is why I love it. Between the truck, que line, music, train design and shed it is a total experience. Orion definitely has this same "experience" vibe as you walk through the lab before getting on the ride and I love it, but it doesn't measure up to MT's in my opinion. Orion is more about the coaster - and it should be! Overall, I respect a ride that makes an effort to sell it's "theme." Not everyone feels that way but the best rides have his quality in my opinion!

I won't stand for Boo slander! Just kidding, you're all entitled to your opinions, and with respect to the past dark rides prior, I love this ride! I was a huge scooby doo fan back in the day because of course I loved that theming, but it is still a good ride. Different than any at the park, and I love the style of the paintings. I could go for some refreshments and some modern technology, but overall I am happy with the ride. Although a phantom theater comeback would be absolutely awesome!!

From what I read online (and its the only figure I could find so don't take it as a solid source) Valravn cost between $20-$25 million https://www.google.com/amp/s/accountingintheheadlines.com/2016/08/30/would-the-costs-related-to-cedar-points-valravn-roller-coaster-be-expensed-or-capitalized/amp/ I thought I heard $23 million somewhere but don't quote me. To what @Kenban said, the cost isn't just the ride itself but the whole project. They had to demolish the theater and the turnpike cars before clearing the land Pay to have the coaster designed and manufactured Ship it Pay a company to install it Pay for additional things like a new entrance and such It all adds up

Yeah same thing with Indiana Beach, sometimes you just can’t beat the obscure feel.

No 18 year female wants to live in a dorm next to a creepy 45 year old male

Ever since I saw Alton Towers build the Smiler I have pictured Cedar Point going for the inversion record

a building like this I like

I vote Flight of Fear... that is all.

I think Orion gets the edge from me, but it's a slight one. I just think more thought went into the queue. Both rides have good theming outside the queues, with the news truck at Orion and pickup at Mystic Timbers. The queue theming at Orion is fun and well-thought out, and I'll give it extra points for all the KI history within it. Mystic Timber's queue just has grainy videos, and it doesn't do as well at establishing a story for the ride. True, Mystic Timbers has "the shed," but that's a neutral for me -- I like the attempt, but it's more of a head-scratcher than anything else. And I think the Area 72 really feeds into Orion's story and feeling; RiverTown is the same whether you have Mystic Timbers there or not. But still, it's a toss up. And to be honest, I like Mystic Timbers better than Orion as a ride. So, they equal out.

I had an idea for turning the chaos building into a walk-through attraction where it gives more back story on Orion and Area 72. Basically a rideless que with theming, audio, etc; an exhibit if you will. No scareactors or spooky alien stuff but just a genuine walk through attraction that can be converted back to a haunted house come fall. I personally loved walking through Cedar Point's little museum that they have. Call me boring but I enjoy walking through Flight of Fear's que as much as I do riding the actual coaster. Am I alone on this?

One of Kings Islands most ambitious project to date has been Tomb Raider: The Ride. Without turning this into a history of the attraction Tomb Raider closed at the end of the 2007 season and it's follow up The Crypt closed the ride for good at the end of the 2011 season. For over a decade the Queue facade, tunnel, and show building has been standing in the ashes of what was once a headliner attraction as a seasonal Halloween Haunt maze. Now that it has been a decade since the rides removal, what do you feel should be done with this plot of land?

Does anyone have photos of the Festhaus the first couple of years after it opened? I was just a young kid but I recall when it had an Oktoberfest show in it, it had a gazebo on each side of the stage with an animated polka band in them like the clock.

As far as the original shows at the Festhaus... here are some Grainy print/ad images... The first two are of "World of Christmas" - the first show to play the Festhaus during Winterfest 1982. The third is of "World Cabaret" that played the 1983 spring/summer/fall season.

They wouldn’t be roomed together. Would an 18 year old girl not want to live in the same apartment complex as a 45 year old man? If so, who has the right to be there?

They used to have the world's tallest inversion with GateKeeper. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Valravn had the 2nd tallest at the time. Going back to your comment, I agree that CP would want the inversion record.

Interesting! I don't have any pictures, but man do I remember when going to the Festhaus for lunch and a show was an event. I remember when they had the ice-skating show in there for a bit. That was pretty cool and it really did feel like it was a centerpiece for entertainment. So many weird shows there during the Paramount era - not just the ice show, but also a "Cheers" musical (!) and really silly game show that I loved as a kid. These days, it just feels kind of like an afterthought. The shows are fine, but I don't get the feeling that anyone's particularly excited to rush in and see it (that also might just be me getting older; maybe no one was ever excited for this but kids!).

I take it you dont have kids lol

Do you speak for all 18 year old girls? Are all 45 year old males creepy? Your statement is sexist and age discrimination.

^People do what they gotta do sometimes.

Take it from a guy who visited Adventureland Iowa for the first time this summer. I enjoyed my visit there more then parks like Valleyfair and holiday World. The park had a nice vibe, nice coasters, flats and a nice waterpark.

Ugh. I was just at The Beach last week to stop by and say hi. If someone were going to reopen it they might just have to bulldoze/rebuild. Then again, it might be a valuable investment since you can literally see the new cabins from there. Fun fact: Hershend did tour the property when they closed the first time but nothing came of it.

"You'll be back... you'll be back...! (Sinister laugh )

I'd contest this a bit. Yes, it's one of two major chain parks in Canada, and of the two, I'm under the impression that Wonderland is considerably better. However, I think Cedar Fair recognizes that people have options for entertainment, and roller coasters don't have to be part of it. If I remember correctly, that was mentioned several times during the Ouimet years. I don't remember if this was explicitly said or if it was just implied, but the sentiment was, "We're not competing against other parks, we're competing against other things people do for fun." I could be misremembering this, but I feel like that idea was mentioned a lot in reference to Cedar Fair exploring other entertainment options (like cirque shows) and the (former?) Amusement Dark initiative. I'd also add that I think considering parks too big/centrally located to fail is a dangerous fallacy for any park owner to believe. I'd argue that that kind of thinking is part of what enabled Six Flags to do what it did to Geauga Lake in the late 1990's and early 2000's. I think it's also part of what contributed to Hard Rock Park's failure, and I think it's part of the path that Mt. Olympus in Wisconsin Dells and Buffalo Bill's in Las Vegas have been heading down for some years now. Consider Dollywood as a counterexample: it COULD be just another shticky sideshow attraction like everything else in Pigeon Forge and coast by, but it's lovingly cared for and expanded by park management, even though gazillions of people travel through the area year after year. It's got longevity because of that care.

Hopefully new trains. B&M made the trains for the notorious SFMM Psyclone.

Temperature checks imo could be one of the things that could stick around for a while post pandemic just like the security screenings post 9/11. While it may not be the most effective at handling diseases, it could catch a potentially ill person if they have a fever. I would also expect cleaning the trains to stick around (not every 30 minutes, but maybe every few hours or every turn of shift like in the morning before opening, when the close shifts come in, and at night after close). I would also expect Soak City to open since other waterparks have opened and did just fine. I also think we should see seasonal events like Grand Carnivale, Summer Nights, Movie nights in Soak City, Haunt, and Winterfest return in some way since Tricks/Treats Fall Fest and Taste of the season (at other parks) proved we can hold special events during the pandemic with protocols in mind. Maybe we won't see the Grand Carnivale Parade or if we do, they'll have markers down for social distancing and could extend the parade route. Based on what the KI website says, they are still planning to hold special events, the exact lineup TBA: https://www.visitkingsisland.com/play/events?page=1 Measures such as masks, social distancing, and reduced capacity I expect to be loosened by the 2022 season in time for a very special 50th anniversary season. It would be nice if we can have a normal season in 2022 so that the park can hold a massive celebration. I feel bad for CP and Knott's who can't celebrate their anniversaries that big due to the pandemic.

I voted for 2. I think the space would be ideal for something like a flying theater or even a Wild Mouse. The park could use more indoor attractions especially as we get back to a spot where Winterfest exists.

Honestly I just want something else to do indoors. It would be a wise investment for something else to operate during Winterfest, and something to do when it's raining. When ever there's inclement weather, Flight of Fear and Boo Blasters are really the only options. Also A/C is awesome on scorching hot days.

A flying theater like Soarin’ would be really cool in the Tomb Raider building. They could theme it to a flight through the Ohio Wilderness, and they could maybe tie Dayton’s history in aviation into it as well. I just hope they fit it into the theme of Rivertown. A flying theater would also be very immersive and add incredible depth to Kings Island as a whole. It would also be another family-orientated ride in Rivertown when there really aren’t that many.

People are fast

Many enthusiasts do not understand ride pricing, and how to properly compare the price of attractions. That $24 million or $30 million dollar B&M is for the entire project. That’s the total being spent everything from land clearing, design, track, trains, control systems, to the theming, signs, and plaza. On a ride like Orion that is going to include projects done at the same time, like the modifications to the Flight of Fear queue, the plaza, food stand, etc. Which is why it’s often difficult to compare the price of two coasters because what enthusiasts have access to is not really the price of the coaster itself. Is a B&M more expensive then a comparable ride from another manufacturer? Yes, but not by as much as you might think. This is also the cost of the attraction and ignores the total cost of ownership. Cedar Fair has publicly stated part of the reason they like B&M is the reduced maintenance costs. There is only one time that I can remember the real cost of a B&M leaking. If I am remembering the source correctly, the local newspaper in Sandusky published a document they received which gave the pricing breakdown for Valravn. The issue with finding the information today is that it was published well before the ride opened and I think it was also before the name was announced. I know it was available on the internet a few years ago, but I suspect finding it today will be difficult.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Cedar Fair never actually said that. What they actually said has been misinterpreted tremendously not just on this forum but on other forums and in YouTube videos. What Cedar Fair really said is that they wouldn’t be investing in large attractions as often as they used to every 2-3 years, saying they would do so now every 4-5 years at the major parks with special events and parades to fill in the gap years. Cedar Fair never said anything about investing in cheaper rides. They just said they would be investing in large rollercoasters less frequently. It is also important to note that they will continue adding something to every park every year as was announced for 2020 (parades and festivals count as new additions).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJEAGd1bQuc