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  1. The show quality on Mystic Timbers and Orion is embarrassing. The broken Shed music is just one aspect. The plaza music for Mystic Timbers also isn’t playing, and the last TV before going up the stairs has half of its screen burnt out. Over at Orion, the music doesn’t play in the station or above the lockers any more (although the speakers above the lockers DO still play the Kings Island Live app announcement). The light in the meteor doesn’t work anymore either. I understand if things like these have problems for a day or two, but there’s no excuse for these things having been down/broken for a month at this point—especially on two showpiece rides for the park.
    11 points
  2. Found something cool while packing to move. Flight of Fear's announcement article in the Cincinnati Enquirer, January 13, 1996. I'll post the article in there at some.
    10 points
  3. Great, great, great news!! The plaza and Shed music are both back at Mystic Timbers! Unfortunately, still no music in Orion’s station and locker area.
    10 points
  4. It was a $31 million budget. You should really read Kings Island: A Ride Through Time. I think you would find it enlightening!
    9 points
  5. Great pictures! That’s me on the stilts in the background!
    8 points
  6. Could they be building the rest of Adventure Express?
    8 points
  7. Awesome to see you guys there tonight. I hope you enjoyed it. Thank you to the KIC Podcast for publicizing the book, and thank you to this site and its members for all the support for this book!!
    8 points
  8. Per their social media channels, the park has announced that the third party carnival rides previously slated for Ballon Glow will not be appearing due to a scheduling conflict. If only there was a way they could have rides available to the public during large events like these… It’s almost as if they make these decisions using a blindfold and a dart board.
    8 points
  9. Each side had a Blue and Red train from The Racer's opening in 1972 through the 2007 season. I made the suggestion to have one side Blue and the other side Red prior to 2008. Depending on how long it took to dispatch a train, there were multiple times every day the ride operated from 1972-2007 when it was Blue versus Blue, Red versus Red.
    8 points
  10. Maybe they need to try flipping the tape over
    8 points
  11. It was redesigned from scratch. The layout we have is 100% a Kings Island layout.
    7 points
  12. Why would they nerf Haunt when they can have a family friendly event during the day and do a full turnover at night? There’s a reason why Haunt Saturdays do the numbers they do. They’re essentially two days packed into one. Plus, how many parents will take their toddlers to a late night event? How many teenagers would went to spend their Saturday nights at a family friendly event? By attempting to please everybody you will please nobody.
    7 points
  13. Would that make someone a season assholder?
    7 points
  14. 7 points
  15. Our own @KIghostguy is our first guest speaker tonight at Coasterstock! So proud of you Evan and I hope KIC and the podcast helped you get going!
    7 points
  16. I think the point others are trying to make is; you see markers, some brush cut down, and some holes in the ground and jump to it's a new coaster. There is no entertaining any other ideas being a possibility. Then you go and write an article representing said work as a coaster coming as fact. People start sharing the misleading information thinking it is coming true. Next the news starts calling the park, looking on KIC and contacting admins to see what is actually going on. Then the park and KIC are forced to do damage control. There is a reason why KIC has a general discussion forum, a rumors forum, and a newsroom forum. Until we know something as fact from the park, I will never put an article out that is not true or misleading in the newsroom section of the forums.
    7 points
  17. I went to Cedar Point over the weekend. As it happened, their 150th celebration kicked off on Saturday. First let me say, they have some of the coolest logo’ed merchandise. Almost all is limited edition. I found a shirt I wanted but they had sold out of my size already, so I sprung for a Tervis simply because it looked so cool! Let’s zip ahead to the celebration. Spoilers ahead. The parade kicks off at 8:45, which is a little later than Grand Carnivale’s 8:00 start. This works out well because the lighting on the floats can really be appreciated in dimmer light. The audio is zoned - meaning it doesn’t kick on until the parade is near. I’m on the fence about that because a lot of people were asking if the parade was still going to happen while we were waiting, but it certainly does add some magic for when the parade arrives. The parade was certainly modeled off of Grand Carnivale’s parade. It even goes as far as having similar show stops, using “Shut Up And Dance” and ending with streamers. But hey - they were great choices for Carnivale and great choices for this parade too. Now, the floats on the other hand… dear Lord! They were huge, technically creative, and nostalgic - all wrapped into one. After the parade, everyone followed the floats to Celebration Plaza. The stage was decorated with an incredible set designed by the very talented Jason Curtis. The show itself was worth the price of admission. It was a celebration of Cedar Point’s history and a celebration of the trends of the eras. There was Magic Kingdom-like energy on that plaza. It has a concert feel that is both difficult to describe and replicate. One thing that I thought was particularly cool was when they talked about building Hotel Breakers, they interacted with the actors on the Hotel Breakers float, when they talked about the coasters they interacted with the actors on the roller coaster float, when they talked about Cedar Downs… let’s just say we had a pony race! All of this culminated into an experience where the thousands in attendance are probably going to need a grin-ectomy to wipe that smile off of their faces. IMG_0178.MOV Many have mentioned that they had put two years of blood, sweat, and tears into this celebration and every minute of that effort showed. I had always had a weird relationship with Cedar Point. I loved the coasters, but felt like it missed some of the magic that other parks naturally had. I feel very differently about that now. …and the best part? The fun is just beginning!
    7 points
  18. I volunteer to stand in the shed, sax in hand, to play the radio music.
    7 points
  19. The announcement event was super cool, too:
    6 points
  20. I think Kings Island has five standout coasters: Orion, Banshee, Diamondback, Mystic Timbers, and The Beast. If you were to put any one of these coasters at ValleyFair, Michigans’ Adventure or probably over 90% of the amusement parks on the planet, it would be their best coaster and would surely standout. Leviathan is a standout coaster for Canada’s Wonderland and most that feel Orion is slightly superior to Leviathan. But Orion doesn’t stand out at Kings Island the way Leviathan does at Canada’s Wonderland due to the fact that Canada’s Wonderland doesn’t have near the supporting cast that Kings Island does. In fact, Leviathan is the standout attraction in all of Canada and Orion is still a tad better. The fact that Kings Island has five coasters that are very close to each other in terms of quality doesn’t allow for any single coaster to standout on it own. I actually like that Orion doesn’t completely overshadow all other rides like some rides do at their respective parks. The other coasters get to keep their appeal. There’s now just more variety. Orion was a very good fit for the park I would even venture to say that the majority of park goers would rather have an Orion over a Veloicoaster, SteVe, Maverick, X2 or The Voyage. The size, the speed, the looks, the drop. It’s just more attractive to more people. Nothing you put at Kings Island is going to standout with the lineup they have anyway, not SteVe, not Veloicicoaster, not The Voyage. It’s just people’s preference for what they prefer. Not everyone prefers the most intense ride. Intensity does not maketh the most superior experience.
    6 points
  21. Went yesterday with a co worker. He has not been to KI in 25 years, so he was like a kid in a candy store. He's also a theatre person and wow, was he impressed with the event! He was explaining to me the technical aspects as well as the time commitment they performers have to put into this event....wow! I loved the Spain float. I loved that during the show and parade, performers make eye contact and smiled. Wonderful showmanship. I loved the ode to Cirque and the drummers were great. King Carl was really into the drum show. The parade seemed shorter this year and I do miss the decentralized country shows. However, the Germans on stilts doing the Chicken Dance at my request was a great touch! Thank you, Kings Island for a wonderful day, event and lifting of spirits. If my gold pass just covered one day of this and one day of winterfest, it would more than have paid for itself with the value I received.
    6 points
  22. What I read is people so passionate about Kings Island they want to see it's full potential reached and kept. I don't see any disrespect happening. I am sure most understand that funds have to be allotted to do so, and not always possible/approved from corporate and not a particular departments fault. I see nothing wrong with having dreams for the park, as long as we understand most of the time it is just that, a dream.
    6 points
  23. It's been a long time since i've seen The Sign Shop, that was cool back in the day....so I would also be up for that again. I have always wanted to get a closer look at the buildings along the train route. I doubt it could happen because of safety issues, but I would like to go up to the lower level observation deck on The Eiffel Tower...just for old times sake. The "graveyard" (with the discarded park items) would be fun. I like coasters...but I would classify myself more of a overall park fan...so I love seeing anything that is something behind-the-scenes that the general public doesn't usually get a chance to see.
    6 points
  24. Visit the Emporium from now till 3 to get your copy of Kings Island: A Ride Through Time signed by @KIghostguy
    6 points
  25. @malem, @pianoman, @acole5292 and myself in queue for Racer. With the new track work it is a must do!
    6 points
  26. Got a photo with @Kyle Kruthoffer!
    6 points
  27. 6 points
  28. He can't, they close the doors when @King Ding Dong scans his pass at the turnstiles.
    6 points
  29. So will the penny smashing machines be converted to smash credit cards?
    6 points
  30. Assuming it's a similar situation to what happened at GaleForce in 2019, then no need to worry. Unlike humans, the water test dummies don't have the same rigidity (i.e., bones). If they weren't fully filled before riding (or, as happened with GaleForce, there were any leaks), then they can lose their form and won't retain the right shape and dimensions to stay in the seat. Even if a human was to pass out on Orion and their body became limp, their body would still be held in place by the restraint thanks to their legs... which is also why Orion (and practically all roller coasters) require you to have at least one full leg, or to have leg amputations below the knee.
    6 points
  31. Kudos to Chad for addressing this. Rumormongering by uninformed folks can really do social damage.
    6 points
  32. I really enjoy the Rivertown covers. The International Street covers of pop music, though...not a fan. But it is much better than the actual pop music that played on IS. I loved KD's polka, french/spanish/italian mix intertwined with classical and movie songs. (I have submitted a message to KI about the music).
    6 points
  33. Ok, I made this up as I went along so please bear with me, but here’s the tour I promised in these three videos. Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 So there you have it, thoughts? I posted this while at the park.
    5 points
  34. With that large of group and being budget conscious it may be advantageous to pack coolers and eat in the lot. If hot meals are important one or two could leave and pick up food outside the park (even pizza) and bring it back to the lot for the group. This is not abnormal, many people eat in the lot just no grills (open flame). This is what I would do if on a limited budget and save the money for snacks or ice cream in the park.
    5 points
  35. Saddened by this news. I met Paul in 1981. We did a couple of TV shows together talking about roller coasters in the 1980's and I enjoyed working with him on stories he was writing for industry publications. The last time I saw him was about a year ago when he visited Kings Island to ride Orion. He'll be missed by many.
    5 points
  36. I spent a few days at Doe River Gorge in June. The Crown is getting its final brake piping (I painted most of it as they finished it) and modifications to the ashpan. Sanders and bell ringer also need to be piped. The boiler jacket has been added and is powder coated dark blue. The sand dome and bell are yet to be mounted, but the handrails are polished and installed. It currently has a round electric headlight, but someday a box may be made to put around it. The big ugly green regulator next to the pump has been replaced. The smokebox had been extended for the installation of a Lempor front end, but time, money, and manpower have put that on hold and it will have a standard blast nozzle for now. It has been fired up twice and run a quarter mile through the first tunnel. The limiting factor now is the spiking and tamping of 200+ brand new added crossties to convert the gorge from an 8 ton Plymouth line to a 25 ton Crown line. The early Crowns had very narrow tires, so holding the gauge will be critical. Pardee Point is not a place you want to derail. From their calculations, it should have just enough power to pull two coaches on the 3%. That is based on the fact that it has 4000# TE versus 5700# TE at Kings Island and we pulled six coaches on 1% at KI. The weight of the early Crowns was not much less than the 5700# TE version, so the Factor of Adhesion is above 4 and should be good for dry rail. Also we used power and traction references from a reprint of a Porter catalog that has a similar sized engine code name HADRIA. The coaches that will be used were home built at Dry Gulch and are slightly shorter than the Crown coaches with longitudinal benches that should be lighter. Since the last narrow gage steamer on the ET&WNC was #14 (there was no #13 - tradition!), this one I believe with be given #15. The hope is to have it fired up and at least doing short demonstration runs at the end of August for the National Narrow Gauge Convention. I plan to be there for that and will let you know how it went.
    5 points
  37. The clip at the top of the blueprint reminds me of this roof shape. It’s called a “Monitor” style roof. It’s not uncommon for any variety of buildings, not just barns.
    5 points
  38. Well we know who is not in the park today... @King Ding Dong
    5 points
  39. Mike confirms Winterfest and Haunt at Coasterstock.
    5 points
  40. Someone posted this elsewhere where Chad explains what happened. Chad is reaching out to people posting this and providing this statement:
    5 points
  41. You're supposed to use echolocation to navigate the queue after dark. I figured that was pretty obvious.
    5 points
  42. The music throughout the park is absolutely horrible. They must be trying to save ASCAP fees or something. The only place that has a great track is Area72. The Kids Bop in Snoopyland - like mentioned above. some lyrics are appropriate. Pop music/country style in Rivertown - HORRID The same 10 song pop country loop playing throughout Coney, Oktoberfest and Action Zone is absolutely ridiculous. It is out of theme, and the music is AWFUL Pop music/instrumental in International Street - right type of music (instrumental) but wrong songs (pop)! This is at least tolerable. Plus the AWFUL songs in before & after the Royal Finale this year. Did I mention how much i hate the pop country in HALF the park?! I would rather have silence than most of this garbage.
    5 points
  43. I thought I’d make a thread so we can discuss Grand Carnivale 2021 now that it’s started. Here are some changes: - The opening ceremony is much more of a show than it was. The song and dance numbers are great but the dialogue parts run a little long. Over all an improvement over the previous version. - Instead of having entertainment in the specific countries areas, the entertainment was localized to the Bandstand. There are 3 acts: acrobats doing an act that’s almost identical to the opening act of Cirque Imagine, a drum corpse, and another acrobatic act. Although there is technically less entertainment, it seems to work better. I’m 2019 the Chinese performers drew large crowds but Germany, India, and the other countries often had no one. The entertainment is also “scaled up,” meaning there’s more to see. I realize this will be controversial but I think the direction made sense. - We did tasting cards. The 9 sampler is good during the entire run of GC so we tried to conserve a little. The lines were long at times and moved slowly but I have to admit that the food was amazing. - The parade was similar to 2019 but many of the floats are either completely changed out or have been renovated. I truly did enjoy the parade this year. Here are some photos: What are your thoughts on the changes?
    4 points
  44. The cash to card machines have been placed… two at the entrance (where the paper maps used to be). Photo of one machine that was off. The other appeared to be up and running. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    4 points
  45. My daughter wanted a small snoopy and they ran out early this season. Kept coming back to park and no avail as no new stock. Well I saw that the number online to call for SpringDot is 513-542-4000 (ask for Halanna). They said you can order online for this at CP online store or Carowinds as they have them. FYI, Springdot is the store and in cincinnati that sells them. So I asked if I could just order one and pickup since close and not pay shipping. Yep. Went there, got it and no problem. So if you live local, Springdot office is near downtown cinti and you can call directly and get online stuff there. Going back again for a couple CP pins and one more KI pin .
    4 points
  46. It has been a busy morning so far at Coasterstock. Doughnuts, ERT on The Great Pumpkin Coaster, Diamondback, Mystic Timbers, photo and Q&A of the train and first rides of the day on the train. We are only 2 hours in!!!!
    4 points
  47. Best hot dog I’ve ever eaten. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    4 points
  48. Since the vast majority of workplaces utilized Monday the 5th as the recognized work holiday this year, I decided to take a chance and attempt an O-C at KI on Friday the 2nd in hopes that it would escape the brunt of the weekend crowds. As a non-necessary explanation to the "So you took your ball and went home?" crowd from my post regarding Memorial day, I have fairly severe crowd anxiety as well as PTSD as Indyguy4KI can attest, and unless I am with someone as a calming influence I do not do well in large crowds. I can say I was certainly not disappointed, as I was quite pleasantly surprised to find a nearly empty Kings Island Drive as I exited I71. After navigating what looked to be a sizable line of vehicles at parking tolls that turned into roughly 5 minutes for me (thank you self scan line and nearly everyone in front of me not having a pass) I walked through turnstiles at 1045. After a quick bit of contemplating, I chose Banshee as my first ride instead of Orion, because for some reason I was feeling rather timid about the height. I really cant explain this because my go-to first ride at CP is ALWAYS Millie, but I digress. First ride of my season was a walk on in row 8 right seat, and by the time the train exited the vertical loop I felt many months of deep-seated stress and darkness leaving my body and I had the best feeling ride on that coaster since my first on her opening day. If anyone from this forum happened to be on that train, I was the one in the rear that sounded like a cross between The Joker and Ivan Moody from 5FDP . I exited the ride feeling 10 tons lighter and knowing it was going to be an incredible day, and let me say right now I was absolutely right. My Spirit cleansed and my mind and body ready, I made my way towards Orion, making note of how surprisingly light the foot traffic was in the park at the time, especially considering the fact I noticed Security was no longer holding non-passholders by the fountain at I Street during ERT. I am not a regular visitor to KI so I am not sure if that is a new, post C procedure change or if it was just for the Holiday weekend, but regardless I think it is a sound idea to avoid the asinine running of the bulls at park open. A quick note related to security at the park while Im on the subject, they have done a nice job of increasing presence throughout the park, as I was never in an area of the park where I counted fewer than 2-3 SOs making rounds, as well as two sworn Police Officers patrolling Coney Mall and Rivertown. As a former LEO I applaud park management for stepping up with a proper response to previous incidents. Back on subject... SQUIRREL... I got to Orion at 1057, just in time to slip into the queue before ERT ended. I reached the back of the ERT which was inside the hanger/show building just in time to hear the dreaded "Attention guests waiting in line for Orion...". Thinking this would be my best opportunity to ride without a colossal wait, I decided to stick it out and I am very glad I did, as it was up and running again in about 15 minutes to the loud cheers of the waiting riders. I requested row 4 in order to have an apples to apples comparison to my first ever ride last July, which the slightly surprised separator (the look on his face when I actually requested a middle row was priceless) readily granted. I posted an updated review in the relevant post already, so I will just say here that it rides as well as it looks. After getting my Funpix, I made my way across the park to Mystic Timbers to add some wood to my day. Even with a 15 minute ride stoppage, I was happily seated for a row 12 ride in less than 45, and again Im glad I waited through the delay because I had a great ride! It was unfortunately my only ride on her for the day, as the line quickly grew to an hour+ for the rest of the day and evening and I had other things I wanted to do more. I was then off to Beast, and once again the second I stopped at the back of the line over the speaker comes the "Attention guests currently yada yada yada".... . I was now starting to feel like KDD walking up to a closed Freestyle building, and this time decided to bounce and head to Diamondback, since the line for Backlot was pretty deep into the switchbacks. After about a 25 minute wait (NO DELAYS..WOO HOO) I took a row 8 ride to compare its mid-train experience to Orion's. The thing I really noticed the most every time Ive done this is how after riding Orion the body is expecting to keep falling when DB enters the rollout into the second hill due to the shorter lift and drop, and its just one of those quirky things I enjoy. I did it in reverse order in the evening, this time going directly from DB to Orion, and that is a great experience. Making my way around to Coney, I stopped for a ride on Shake Rattle & Roll, and that ride never disappoints. What separates it and makes it better than Troika at the Point is its longer ride cycle, and thats A-OK with me because I Love the ride. I was going to follow it up with a Scrambler ride, but since the line filled both switchbacks (that and the Tiques had the longest line of all the flats through the entire day) I made my way back over to Orion for ride number 2 of the day in row 8. Once off, I decided to give the retracked Racer a shot and see how much it had been improved. I rode 5-2 Red after less than 10 minutes in queue, and let me say THANK YOU GCI, no more spine compressing jackhammering!!!!!! I didn't ride Blue (why I still dont know with the line being short all day) but I certainly will on later trip(s) to the park and Im quite happy this is no longer a one and done coaster. Now that it was approaching 3pm, I headed to Skyline on I Street for a late lunch, and with the exception of one individual in the prep line who obviously wasn't keen on being assigned those duties for the day, it was all good. Since I left with a nearly full drink I didn't want to waste and needed to let my food settle, Boo Blasters seemed like the ideal next ride. Even though the AC wasn't needed due to the PERFECT mid 70s temps, the line was just long enough to take care of both reasons I went there, but Ive got to say the blasters... all 3 of them... in the ride vehicle I rode were janky. I scored a dismal 390, and I absolutely NEVER score lower than 1000 on any of the light blaster rides. Two of the blasters wouldn't register on the targets at all, but I enjoyed looking around at the props all the same. After exiting the building, I figured since I was already in PS Id head to Surf Dog to knock it out. Hehe, silly me, as PS was the most crowded part of the entire park and SD had what was likely a 30 minute wait which I bypassed with the thoughts of heading back later in the evening. After peeking into MT's queue as I walked by, I made my way back to Beast, this time determined to ride her regardless. A nice, smooth, delay free 25 minute wait later, I was dispatched in 1-2 (1-1 was occupied) for my traditional silent tribute ride to a Friend and former poster here who lost his battle to cancer in 2012. Beast is running very well this year for sure, and I know Keith was smiling down on me the whole time. After getting my Funpix and taking a moment for reflection while looking up at the lift hill, I headed towards Flight of Fear in order to complete that side of the park before heading back up to AZ. Once i found the estimated wait at 90 minutes, and knowing Id be back in Area 72 for more Orion rides, I decided instead to make my way to AZ for a Bat flight and a swing on Delirium. In regards to Delirium, that is a ride I wish I hadn't been afraid of for so long, and am thankful that I finally had the courage to get on MaxAir at Failmania 15 because it is now one of my favorite flats ever. Once getting off and briefly contemplating and deciding against a re-ride, I headed back to Banshee for ride 2 of the day before concentrating my time in Area 72. It was another great ride, quelled only by me having to ride it like a rodeo rider with one hand up. I had zipper pocket shorts on, and I checked my phone just before getting on the train, realizing only after the restraints were fastened and locked that I had neglected to zip that pocket! While I knew that the odds were good it would stay in my pocket or at least get trapped safely between my hip and the seat if it did make its way out, I decided to play it safe and ride with my hand down against it. Plus, it made for a humorous Funpix, lol. After retrieving said humorous Funpix, it was off to Area 72 once again for FoF. By this time the wait was down to about 50, and I got a great 1-2 ride on a ride that never disappoints me. Unfortunately the camera was lagging a bit, and it didn't capture the front car of the train so I have STILL never gotten an on ride photo from FoF, grrrr. As I left the building and started to turn left to begin an Orion marathon, I remembered I hadn't yet ridden Backlot, and couldn't neglect my guilty pleasure! It was now down to around 25 minutes, and it didn't even seem like that, as I spent some of it being quite entertained by two young men who were wearing blue stuffed floppy eared Muppet-esque hats bobbing their heads to "Hey Ya" by Outkast . Once I got off Backlot, I decided to do my small to big back to back comparison of DB vs Orion and headed over to the Snake pit. Thirty minutes and a 1-2 ride later, it was around 1940 and time to go back to Orion for the rest of the evening. I figured by this time the line would be at least 45 minutes with people assumedly getting ready for get queued up for eventual Orion and Beast night rides, but I only waited about 25 minutes for my 3rd ride of the outing, this time in row 6. Once I got off, it was around 2020, and I headed right back in for another, with hopes of getting a 1-1 or 1-2 ride for a more genuine comparison to my 1-2 ride on DB. As luck would have it, when I made my way back up to the station there were three people waiting for 1-1, and I was fortunate enough to have my request granted for the remaining seat. Not only did I get a great sun near the horizon view of the park, but a really great exhilarating ride and a great FP thanks to the group I was riding with. Once I collected that, I started to head back towards the ride entrance determined to get a night ride, but I stopped short. I stood there briefly looking at the lift hill, and thought back to 2009 when DB opened. I went to the park at least once a week that year, and rode DB 6-8 times each time due to the wonderful SRL it had at that time, and I know that is why I am far from the biggest fan of that ride to this day. I over-rode the crap out of that ride the first 2 years it was open, and I dont want to make that same mistake with Orion. After a short bit of contemplation, I decided that Id had a REALLY good day, and it was time to go pick up a hat, a funnel cake for my Wife, and hit the highway back to Indiana. To end this ridiculously long TR, I want to take a little time to make some observations. First and foremost, I want to give praise to the rides department as a whole, every crew on every ride was smooth, clean, efficient, and performed exactly as I like to see. I want to make special mention of the evening Orion crew, as they were kicking it! My last two ride waits were 24 and 17 minutes respectively from queue entrance to the time I sat in the seat, great job ride crew! Also, I want to again mention the security staff who were politely present and visible, and kept the park in order very well. Finally, I want to go back to the time I was in line for Backlot. While not directly related to park employees or operations, watching the two young man being silly and having fun with their fuzzy head hats on made me laugh harder than I have in a while, and it helped restore a little bit of my faith that we as humans have the capability to once again put our claws and fangs away and start to return to being normally functioning humans again.
    4 points
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