Shaggy

"OH, but they are broke my friend!!! How can you say that when we only have 2 shows this year?!?! I bet we will see some huge coasters in the next few years!" How can I say that? Well, the parks all made a profit last year. Actually PCW rose to be the highest attended seasonal theme park last season. You are using an enthusiast mindset. By broke you think "they don't have a 300 foot coaster" or "their shows suck." That is not a business sensibility. I personally think the days of mega coasters are essentially at a standstill. CF and SF have all seen a decline in attendance of late even in years with large installs. So I don't expect a coaster of Millenium Force proportions at PKI any time soon. PKI attendance is already far exceededing predictions for the season, and they simply added what many around here refer to as "carnie rides." They have constantly seen growth in years where they re-branded areas or attractions with a family friendly focus. CF has not. CF continually follows the trend of investing in mega installs that require years of revenue to compensate. When a company such as CF buys controlling interest in another highly successful chain, that means they are interested in not only the product that the park is offering, but their overall ability to succeed in a market. They want to expand their interest in the industry by investing in properties that have proven themselves successful and have a good game plan. They don't always plan on overhauling the new properties, sometimes they actually are interested in investing in order to use their proven methods within their own corporate structure. It's a blending of the two, not an abandonment of one. The interest that CF has in the Paramount Chain makes perfect sense to me. It is the opposite situation from the Geauga Lake turnover. Shaggy

I am baffled by all the "CF will start changing/improving things" posts. Bottom line, Paramount Parks are profitable, and run very well. Cedar Fair was interested in them because they are desirable business to aquire. I don't expect them to drastically change things. Except probably removing upper level management, and dropping some licensing rights, the parks will likely remain in-tact. After all, they're not broke, so why try and fix them? Shaggy

CF is interested in more of the PPI parks than just PKI... however, they are not interested in one specific PPI park. Shaggy

It's easy for those involved in the business world to see what is going on. PPI is attempting to cut operating costs, streamline budgets and staffing, as well as increase profitability. No doubt to look appealing to potential buyers. Must have worked since there seems to be a forthcoming announcement. In terms of Nick Universe being full of "carnie rides" well, didn't they only add three new ones? One is a Frog Hopper that is permanently installed, one is Avatar, which is a permanent install, and the other is the Zamperla Kite Flyer which is also permanently installed. Other than those three, all other rides existed before, and no one called them "carnie" rides prior TMK. Hmmm, terrible isn't it? Well maybe to the novice. But early insider reports are that attendance is already way up at PKI for the season. Now, Imagine a PKI without "Paramount." Imagine it without Tomb Raider. Imagine it without Paramount Action FX Theatre, or Days of Thunder, or Top Gun, or Congo Falls, or Face/Off, or Paramount Theatre, or Italian Job, or... well, you get the idea. Now fold your arms and *blink.* Poof... your wish just came true. Shaggy

I heard Paramount Parks will be sold to a competitor, with all current management being terminated. Let's see who's rumor comes true first. ;-)

There was a thread on this site sometime ago where I posted a long write up detailing the infamous "Cincinnati Kids" episode. I think the thread was called "Brady Bunch at Kings Island." You may wish to check it out. BTW, in that post, I explained that the editors of the show accidentally "reversed" the film causing a mirror image of The Racer. Regarding The Racer's old entrance... well, really the entrance is still the same today as when it opened (With the exception of different signage.) The real difference is the exit. Racer used to exit to the right of the queue house. Currently it exits to the left of it. The ramp spilled out onto Coney Mall right next to the seating area for the "Sweet Tooth" cotton candy stall (Which currently is Subway.) I believe that when Tumble Bug was removed, and Skylab Installed, the exit was re-configured. Also, in a clip of the Brady episode, you can see an overhead shot of The Racer that shows the old final bunny hop that no longer exists on the coaster. Perhaps one of the download pics includes it. Not sure as I haven't looked at them. Shaggy

Six Flags broadcast that it was for sale... and no one bought... thus they are "restructuring." I think this is exactly what PP will do. Clear Channel recently spun off it's entire Entertainment Division (now called Live Nation) with the intent of selling. So far, no interested parties. Shaggy

Experience, a little bit of insider info, and as I said... a lot of guessing ;-) Shaggy

Here's my guesses about the future of PKI... remember they are my GUESSES... - I highly doubt anyone has bought, or will buy it in the near future. The Entertainment Field (Including all forms of Arts and Amusements) is hurting terribly right now. Not many investors would be anxious to buy into a product that has seen losses and decreases over the years. - Winterfest will return. - Admission prices will increase ala Six Flags and Cedar Fair. - Rides will likely operate on a limited basis. Meaning the park will likely only operate main attractions until the heart of the season arrives...even more dramatically than they have in the past. - Entertainment budgets will be cut yet again. - A ride rotation program will likely gain momentum. Expect to see major attractions at Paramount Parks continue to shift around. - The overall general esthetic upkeep that we have seen blossoming in the recent past will likely come to a screeching halt. I would expect that rides will not get new, fresh paint jobs like they have been. - Themeing elements will continue to decline, if operate at all. I would not be at all suprised to see attractions like TR operate without the theming turned on at all. I hate to forsee things like this, and I sure hope I am wrong, but I feel it coming. Having been in the industry myself for over 10 years, I know that right now things are really bad. Downsizing (in all areas) is now the norm. Let's hope our economy improves, so that the state of affairs improves among those that provide us with our fun. Shaggy

I think you are right. I am not that familiar with the parks or their histories... although I have visited Dollywood, SDC and Celebration City... I've not yet had the chance to visit Fiesta Texas, and I missed Opryland by 1 year. Shaggy

Re: Busch... No doubt Bush Gardens parks are meticulously maintained, and their attention to detail is commendable. However Busch is a unique entity. The Amusement Parks are HIGHLY funded by the companies outside beer sales. You can bet that sales of their product play a factor in the amount of money that gets sunk into the parks. After all, Busch parks were built and exist for one simple reason... they soften the image of the Alcohol Distributing conglomorate. Much like Hershey, the parks began as a sort of "outlet" for the employees of the factories (Now defunct CA Bush park) and over time developed and expanded due to their ability to help promote the product, but in a family friendly way. Re: Dollywood and SDC... Weren't they, at one time, owned by the same company that owned Fiesta Texas? If so, they sold off that property years ago. The thought of SDC taking over Paramount Parks is not a bad one, but like someone else said.. I'd not count on it. Shaggy

"The private investor whould take most of the money the park made and invest it back into the park. The way it is now alot of the other parks build stuff from the profit of PKI. " Incorrect. Each park currently submits a yearly capitol expenditure budget based on their needs and their desires for the park. PP then decides how much of that capitol budget they are granted based on that park's prior performance. Using your theory, the park that made the most footed the bills for the other parks... PKI did not make the most last year, so do you think PCW is paying for NU next year? Nah. If an independant owner would invest in the parks, the investor would likely not sink the same amount of capitol into the park as VIACOM currently does. Paramount Parks has seen a decrease in attendance and revenue. A new publicly traded company would likely avoid immediate costly capitol expenditures in order to lure more investors and increase interest in their profitibility margin. Looking back to when Paramount first took controlling interest.... the first year at PKI saw the addition of Top Gun, which was already purchased and in development by the prior owners. The first full year of Paramount ownership, the park saw only the installation of Days of Thunder in the Action FX Theatre. Bottom line, double... even triple... sometimes quadruple... the amount of capitol was sunk into KI during VIACOM/Paramount years than during any years under previous ownership. Why else would they want out of the business? Their revenue is down, and yet they have set a precident of spending millions in yearly improvements. Thus they want out. Shaggy

The truth is... if an independant were to buy the park chain, then there would likely be LESS capitol spent on new product than there has been under the VIACOM branding. VIACOM/Paramount sinks millions and millions into those parks every year. A new investor would likely discourage such spending. Shaggy

"From what I hear Kentucky WILL be raising the parking prices in July. " No, the Fairgrounds may raise the prices, but KK does not oversee or control the parking. FYI... not only are admission prices being raised across the board at the Six Flags Parks... Season passes are being raised as well, I believe. On top of that, parking at SF parks is being increased to as much as $15.00. SF is in terrible debt. And these dramatic increases are an attempt to drop the debt load. However it's a terribly risky move. He's banking on the fact that people will still travel to a SF park even though gas prices are sky-rocketing, only to find that the admission prices and parking charges have been dramatically increased. On top of that, the GP is well aware of he lacking operations of the SF chain... hence the article to try and convince people that things will improve. However they must now pay more to enter the same park that has probably soured them prior. Another "smart move" this guy wanted to make was one-time-daily entry only. Meaning you paid, got in, then could not leave and re-enter the same day... under this you could not have even gone to your car for suncreen or such. That idea got scrapped quickly... but it exhemplifies the inane ideas this company is developing to try and make the public get them out of the friggin hole that they dug for themselves. Shaggy

I have often thought about what I'd do at PKI if I called the shots, had no budget constraints, and didn't have to worry about anything such as topography etc. It's fun to dream. Here's mine: -First, I'd ax Face Off. - Where Face Off currently is, would become a station for a large B&M Hyper. The Hypercoaster would be an out and back that would run the edge of the park past Timberwolf angling to the right towards Top Gun. Think Apollo's Chariot placement at BGW. -Congo Falls would be re-located to Rivertown. I could see it utilizing the lake area. - The Days Of Thunder Go Karts would bite the dust. And Italian Job would be relocated to this area and occupy the remainder of the King Cobra Land. - A B&M Invert would be located in Rivertown as well. The station would be located in the area between Beast's station and Tomb Raider. It would occupy the land also shared by WWC. There would be a cobra roll that would flip riders around the rail-road trestle that currently exists. - Tomb Raider would have it's entire building themed and the corrogated metal building would be disguised. - Coney Mall would be gutted and re-furbished to a TV Land Theme. Tons of flat rides would be added in this area... the first of which would be a spinning teacups ride. I'd likely add a Sea Dragon, Ferris Wheel, Tilt-O-Whirl, Fying Carpet, etc to the area all themed to various classic TV Sticoms etc. I'd keep things like the nostalgic Greg Brady Football toss etc. - The land now vacated by the relocation of Italian Job would become a wooded area once again, but the picnic grove would be relocated there. - The picnic grove area near Boomerang Bay would be closed and used for future Nick Universe Expansion. - The Paramount Story Gardens would be scrapped and a museum-esque facility would be built there housing nostalgic items and historical information about the park. - I'd likely kill the Octoberfest Theming all-together, or go gang-busters on it. Either way, it's a waste of space currently and serves no real purpose. Well, except the Festhaus. - Eiffel Tower would be painted a copper color, like the true one in Paris. Not that awful green. It would also have a wonderful light package added. LOL, there's plenty more, but you get the jist... LOL! Shaggy

"The kids on Blast Off looked pretty board to me and not very thrilled. " Yeah, I can see where the smiles and hands in the air might indicate that it's a boring ride. Sheesh. Shaggy

"The one at Cedar Point called the Frog Hopper looked really stupid even for kids. I think they need to just take it one step up. Like a mini dropzone like 25- 30 feet tall. Even a small S&S tower about that size would be great. " You obviously do not have kids. It's nerve-wracking enough to have one 10-15 feet tall and toddlers riding. Plus, kids LOVE those things. Actually one of my favorite things to do at a park is to watch the little surprised faces when they are riding a Frog Hopper. It can be hilarious! I think those that are so quick to make snap judgements about how the Zamperla rides seem cheap, or carnival like, need to realize that PKI's will be permanent installs, not trailer mounts. They will have complete themeing packages, and no doubt will look great. Those curious would be best suited to take a look at pics of Canada's Wonderland kids areas... that will give you a better idea of the look/theming of the rides. A great friend of mine has a personal PCW website that will give you a good idea of the look of the ride package coming to PKI. Follow this link, scroll down, then click on the various rides that fall under the Hanna Barberra/Nick Central heading. Specifically look at the Nick themed rides such as Dora, Rugrats etc. http://www.pcwjunkies.com/pcw/pcwthrillrides.htm Oh and here's a good idea of what a permanent install with theming of a Frog Hopper actually looks like. BTW, yes, that is me (John) in the pics at the bottom of the page. I decided to ride for kicks. LOL What can I say... when in Rome... errr... Wonderland.... do as the Wonderlandians do. http://www.pcwjunkies.com/pcw/flatrides/blasto.htm Shaggy

Don't think it was me. I've known for quite sometime prior to October that it was indeed a variation of the Zamperla Disko.... BTW... It's not a shelf model... and is something designed specifically for Paramount Parks. FYI... The PGA Survivor attraction is the same ride but with a variation on theming. Shaggy

"I really enjoyed seeing the park from 1973. Very little film exists of the park from the early 70's, at least that I know of." It was filmed in 1972. Brady Bunch filmed there in 1973. Shaggy

Actually IJST is a great example. It's obvious to me that the attention was not spent on the actual coaster itself. Heck, it's simply a small mine-train type ride with a launch. However look at the $ they sunk into making it chock full of "technology." On board sound... that doesn't work. Scenic effects... that you pass by too rapidly. Mid-ride show... that is a shell of it's original intention. Headlights on trains... that do not work. I like IJST.... I think it's "cute." And it's a great family ride. However so much was sacrificed along the course in order to make it a "marvel" that the basic idea of a simply fun and satisfying ride kind of took back seat. On the flip side, if you take a look at Delirium (although not a coaster) the ride was simply purchased and installed. It has very few bells and whistles (other than that pesky hydraulic floor) and simply was built to be a fun ride. It has succeeded immensely on multiple levels... most importantly guests LOVE it. It was sort of a fluke install, and is IMO, the best new product that the park has installed in 20 years. Shaggy

"I wonder why paramount shot the designs down? " Several reasons.... Al Webber (CEO of Paramount Parks division) is of the "It's gotta have a gimmick" school. For some reason he thinks that coaster installs have to be technical marvels, or state of the art attractions. They dont. They just have to be fun. Paramount Parks recognize that increased revenue resides in families, not thrill seekers. When coasters are installed, you cut your drawing audience nearly in half. Money. Buying a B&M is literally like purchasing a Rolls Royce in the coaster world. They are the creme of the crop. And Paramount Parks tends to be stingy at times. They would rather rely on a cheaper manufacturer for the ride unit, so they can spend monies on theming elements that seemingly do nothing for the rides themselves, or budget the money for improvements elsewhere in the park. Shaggy

Vortex is meticulously maintained, and still attracts "oohs and aaaaahs" from guests. It also still attracts many riders. So it still has plenty of life left in it. Take a look at Loch Ness Monster at BGW.... it's ben operating nearly 30 years and is still going strong. Arrow multiloopers are notoriously rough... and Vortex can be included in that list. They often get labelled as headbangers because of the horsecollars that box one's head as you are shuffled through the journey. However, it's obvious that the cause of the roughness felt on Arrow loopers is three fold: First, the trains wheels reside on the inside of the track. This causes a shuffling of the cars chassis between the two abrupt stopping points. On coasters (such as B&M's) where the wheels reside on the outside of the track, there is significantly less shuffling of the chassis. Second, there is often not enough transition time between elements. In order to squeeze in as many loops and inversions as possible, Ron Toomer and fellow Arrow Designers used quick and terribly abrupt transitions in between inversions/elements. On Vortex, the worst transition is no doubt the drop into the corkscrews. These quick pace/directional trasitions give the body significantly less time to brace/prepare/adjust. Third, Arrows trains situate the passengers lower in the car in order to try and place the mid point of the body as close to the center axis as possible. In theory, this seems right, but it has a flawed effect. It brings the head/neck closer to the axis point where the side to side motion is much more abrupt and jerky. You see, on coasters where the passengers ride well above or below the track, there seems to be much less stress on the neck/head. That's because it places the mid/upper torso region in the most jarring positions. The restraints are tighter in those areas, thus there is less movement of the rider within the seat. I think of it like a metronome. You know.... those tick-tock machines used by pianists to keep time? If you think of your body as that "hand" on the metronome, then you'll see that the closer your head is to the pivot point, then the more jarring it can be. However the farthur away the head is brought from the pivot point, the more sweeping and less voilent the motion becomes. It becomes more of a side to side sway while the upper body takes the brunt of the force. Add in horsecollars, which either hit the crown, ears, chin, neck or shoulders of the riders (depending upon their upper body length) and you can end up with a terribly uncomfortable boxing match of a ride. I like Vortex, and think it has the best air time on any Arrow looper. However I ride it very infrequently... especially now that I am older and my body cannot take loop after loop like it once could. But IMO Vortex is by far smoother than many of the other Arrow loopers that exist. For those that have ridden the likes of the former Steel Phantom at Kennywood, or Shockwave at SFGAM, or Anaconda at PKD, etc, you know what I am talking about. On the flip side, Dollywood's Tenessee Tornado is likely the smoothest Arrow multilooper ever built. Most likely due to the overly sized elements and better transition time between them. Shaggy

LOL... "no compete?" B&M is a major coaster manufacturer that wants to sell as much of their product as possible. Should PKI want a B&M, then B&M would sell them one. I doubt any coaster manufacturer would be silly enough to restrict themselves regionally as to being able to sell. Now if a manufacturer were working in cahoots with a park to produce a prototype coaster or ride, then I would expect that they would give the park exclusive rights to that design... at least for a year or so. But in today's frugle world of Amusements, any manufacturer would be silly to restrict themselves from selling their product to whomever desired it. Re: B&M and PKI.... it's no big secret that Bolliger and Mabillard have been at PKI numerous times in years past proposing coaster designs. The most significant proposal that came about 5 years ago. It was a proposed hyper coaster in the rear of the park that was slated to occupy the land from the turnaround of The Racer back through the heavy terrain lands toward the Little Miami River. However Paramount Parks declined the design. This was just one of several proposals that Paramount Parks turned down for PKI. Because of numerous declines, it's my understanding that B&M has ceased proposing coasters to the Paramount chain. With the understanding that only serious intent to install would attract their attention in the future. Shaggy

"Probably just some minor equipment upgrades to reopen the restaurant." Not only minor kitchen upgrades would be required. Major kitchen updates would be required. There are specific spacial problems that do not meet health/safety codes. In addition, as far as I know there's no public elevator. Thus it's not handicapped accessible. That's a major no-no in today's world. Shaggy

The King's Island Trabant "Wheel of Fortune" was indeed sold to Fantasy Farm. When Fantasy Farm closed, the rides were auctioned. The Trabant was purchased at that auction and operates still today at Delgrossos park. It still retains all of it's original "Wheel of Fortune" roulette whell theming to this day. Shaggy