CoastersRZ

Keep in mind a couple of things. When the original campground was closed, the park was owned by Paramount Parks, which in turn was owned by CBS. When CBS sold the land for the campground they maintained a small (I believe it was 24% ownership) in the new Great Wolf Lodge. Upon the sale of Paramount Parks to Cedar Fair in 2006, I believe they did not purchase CBS`s stake in the resort. CBS later sold their stake to Great Wolf Lodge. I would say Cedar Fair is interested in running resorts. A few years ago they purchased the Sawmill Creek Resort in Sandusky. They just finished a major renovation to that property as well as the Castaway Bay property in Sandusky. They built a hotel down at Carowinds. I think the hotel that they had planned at Canada`s Wonderland is still on pause, however. These resorts allow Cedar Fair to generate "out of park" revenue, and is a further way to use their parks to generate additional revenue outside of the core revenues the parks themselves generate.

And I believe at one point in time there was a plan to build apartments on that site. This was years ago, and I don`t think anything other than the demolition mentioned above occured. One would think it is a prime piece of property, and a new hotel could do wonders there. \ I wonder if Cedar Fair ever considers building a hotel that they control at KI. I know there was Camp Cedar, but they didn`t own that, just managed it.

Yes, I agree that Twelve days of Christmas on the train needs an update. I still loved what they did with the train in 2005 in terms of having live entertainment in the station and onboard the train. There were not as many lights on the route as there are now, but it was certainly more entertaining. I agree that I street and the ice skating could open earlier. I have not done the ice skating in this incarnation of Winterfest but it always seems so crowded.

The reason they do the parade so late is often times after the parade a lot of guests head for the gates. Having the parade when they do keeps them in the park longer. I agree, that it is hard to see all the shows before the parade start time. I could see them maybe opening at 3 on some days. I could also see them opening the weekend before Thanksgiving. I think they did that in 2019. The problem there is the turn around time between Haunt and Winterfest. The first weekend of Winterfest, there are typically a few things that are completely set up yet.

Sounds good. Is it getting Gravity Group`s new track system? In several years, if KI keeps up this rehab work on The Racer and The Beast, they will eventually all be the new vertical style track, which will hopefully provide a smoother ride for years to come.

Or maybe Cedar Fair was asking more for the contract this year and the owners decided that the cost of the services Cedar Fair was offering were not worth the benefits. Or they received a better deal from another company. Or Cedar Fair decided the cost of the management contract was not worth the benefits. We may never know the true answer.

Or be an allusion to the rumor that the changes are not being made by the original ride manufacturer, but one which Cedar Fair has been working with a lot recently? I think we will likely have to wait until August of this year to find out exactly what they are up to.

There are some areas that could use a flat ride or two within the park still. Besides the vacant land where Vortex once sat, the land where the former Salt Water Circus (the path from the backside of the Eiffel Tower towards the Rivertown Pizza, could certainly use a flat ride of some sort. The problem is, other than Paradise Island drink stand, there isn`t much there to bring in new revenue at existing food/merch locations. With Adventure Port, there is the food stand that is being renovated that these two new attractions will help draw people to in order to spend money. Additionally, while the park is adding these two new rides in Adventure Port, keep in mind that they removed a ride (albeit it an up charge attraction). So while they are adding two new rides, from an employee labor standpoint, they are really only adding one new ride`s worth of labor.

I`d imagine since there is not much going on in the area in January and February, that the demand for weekday stays is not high. It is interesting that they apparently decided not to renew the management contract with Cedar Fair. I guess we will see how successful they are once the spring season kicks things back up.

What does Canada`s Wonderland do with their rides on New Year`s Eve? Or what about Carowinds/Kings Dominion? I know they are all different jurisdictions. Just wondering if they kept their rides going. Carowinds and Kings Dominion are different this year, since they are going to year round operation with weekends in January and February, I get that the ride certification calendar typically runs through December 31st. But Dollywood typically is open a few days into the new year with their Smoky Mountain Christmas. Seems like the park could get another couple of nights of Winterfest with all the set up and preparation they do for the event. Sadly, I still have not ridden Flight of Fear at Winterfest yet.

I am sure once January hits, they will start more site work in earnest. Especially since they will have access to the full site.

That doesn`t look like a purpose dug hole for a ride foundation. Looks like they were doing some preliminary grading in that area.

Those look more like just tire tracks from equipment and not preparations for the actual ride pads yet.

These kind of things kind of seem like a short term gain at the expense of future benefit. Ie. lets sell our land now and get a big paycheck, but then we have to pay lease payments in perpetuity. What happens if the real estate a particular park sits on doubles in price? Well we already sold the land so the REIT benefits from the increase in land value. Also, the REIT could increase the lease payment required by Six Flags. Again, seems like a short term gain at the expense of long term future profit opportunity.

Keep in mind that Cedar Point has hotel rooms to fill up that can generate additional revenue. Kings Island doesn`t have that for Cedar Fair. And to the point of employee hours, yes, I am sure they have an ideal amount of attractions they want. As others have mentioned, the more employees to run the park, the higher the risk of increased expenses and lack of revenue (lower margins) on bad weather days.

The other thing is, when you expand out you have more infrastructure to construct. Utilities, pavement, etc. Staying compact lets you not spend money on constructing new utilities and infrastructure. And as you noted, it can force people to patronize the existing food stands and merchandise locations.

Just ordered my copy! Can`t wait to see it. I am sure it will be well worth the money!

Ryan, I agree that the lights for the 12 Days of Christmas are looking rough. Hopefully these get some TLC or replaced. It was nice that they added some lights to the newly planted pine trees along the train route. They also added some LED uplights, similar to what was seen on Mystic. I still miss the White Christmas Express from the 2005 version of Winterfest on the train. The story and live entertainment with the train was a good experience. I wish they could incorporate some kind of story line into the train for Winterfest.

I was a little disappointed to see that the meatball sub that they had served in the Festhaus in past Winterfests was not being offered today. In fact, they had no seasonal items offered at all in the Festhaus.

Really loved the pathway behind the Festhaus, between Delirium and the Kings Island Theater. The park looked great. The loading process at the train was rather unimpressive. Lots of operators, but they were not filling every row, and not directing guests to empty rows. Guests were confused which caused delays. The garland on the coaches of the green car were illuminated, while the garland on the red coaches were not. Also, all the 12 drummers drumming were dark when our train went by around 7:15. Overall, the park was packed. To be expected for opening night and rather pleasant weather.

I would hope at least Cargo Loco would be able to operate. But like IndyGuy4KI said, I would hope that any new ride installs would have the ability to operate during Winterfest, barring minimum operating requirements.

Looks like an amazing ride. It is amazing to think how much Dollywood has expanded over the last decade. My first visit was in 2008, during Smoky Mountain Christmas. That was before Wild Eagle, Firechaser Express, Wildwood Grove, and Lightning Rod! The park is quickly becoming a multi-day park, which is part of the reason they are likely building more resorts. To anyone who has never visited Dollywood. I highly recommend it. Outside of Kings Island, it is the only other amusement park that I have had a season pass to.

I`d imagine that the Thanksgiving holiday week is likely the reason for the absence of the pin release this week.

What will be interesting to see what happens once Universal opens their new gate down there. Will we ever see Disney build a fifth gated park? Given the crowds, I would think they could certainly cash in on that. But they can`t half bake a new park, otherwise they would have to do what they did to the original Animal Kingdom and add in a lot of attractions after the first season. A new park isn`t cheap. But Comcast certainly thinks it is worth the money. I will be going to WDW in March. It will be my first trip back to WDW since 2013. Granted, I have been to Disneyland twice (2015 and 2016) since then. This will be our first visit with kids, so it should be fun.

And the Subway locations in the park, typically have not offered the full line up of menu items found at a Subway outside the park. That being said, I think there is a place for a sub sandwich shop in the park. If true and Skyline ends up moving to where Chik Fil A is located, it would be ashame they loose their indoor dining. There is not a lot of shaded eating areas over by Chik Fil A, or warm areas for during Winterfest. If this rumor turns out to be true, I wonder what restaurant takes up residence on I-Street. At one point in time, there used to be a chinese restaurant there, and at one point they had a character breakfast in there in the early to late 90`s. I believe it went by All Star Cafe.