Funny but I actually like how the International street restaurant at the entrance blocks the view of International street and the Eiffel Tower. It just makes it more breathtaking when you finally walk through the gates and see all the magnificence! Don't know why some people feel the park entrance is ugly, I think it looks fine. Most people don't even notice one way or another and to me the worst thing is to have a ride right at the entrance.
9
Alan Schilke rides the S&S Axis:
2
Lately I've been seeing a lot of enthusiasts place Kings Island as their #1 park, even ahead of Cedar Point. They point to the more relaxing atmosphere and the magnificent staff and ride ops....Good job people!
4
13 hours ago, coaster sally said:Are you related to stan checkets?
Admit is you want one of those coasters just as badly as I do...You don't have to be afraid to agree with my obviously perfect proposal
Lot of nice ideas here but I would greatly prefer an X2 killing S&S Axis 4D coaster over all other options. If people are going gaga over a 800 ft. prototype I can't imagine what a full scale model would be like. Reliability and Maintenance costs would obviously be the biggest concerns and may be a deal breaker but these things look to be a riot.
https://attractionsmagazine.com/my-test-ride-on-axis-the-next-evolution-of-roller-coaster/
"As the coaster launches (approximately 0-70 in 1.8 seconds on the prototype! WOAH!) I am thrust back into my seat; then, what looks like an outer bank turn flipped me over, but it only flipped the vehicles, as the track doesn’t do a full inversion. Wait! Did I just do a barrel roll even though the track didn’t? I’m not sure I have time to figure it out as I’m immediately on the side of the track instead of above it in the next element, a banked turn, that immediately drops me into something no other coaster has ever done. I’m not so sure this next element even has a name, as the coaster floats over the track providing a bit of sustained airtime. I made one more fast bank to the right that was so sharp, the cart rotated almost 90 degrees through the final element. It blew past the launch track and back up toward the first section that inverted"
"I have no words at this moment. How? What? Where? Nevermind, my mind couldn’t comprehend what just happened. I guess I need to try it again. Launch. Repeat. Launch. Repeat. Launch. Repeat. I just cannot wrap my mind around what is happening."
"After somewhere north of six or so rides, I finally had an understanding of what’s happening. Barely. I could sit here and try to describe this all day, but I would just end up talking in circles. So much happened in 800 feet of track that it may as well be a full coaster in itself, but it isn’t. In fact, the full-scale version is going to be even more insane.
So, which theme park is getting one? Well, we don’t know. When can you ride it? Again, we don’t know. Once a park purchases one from S&S, it’ll be a while before it’s built and ready to ride. Also note that whatever theme park company buys it, they will name it themselves, so it may not have Axis in the title. But you’ll know it when you see it.
But, there is a lot we did learn about the design and the tracking system. The coaster rotations feel random, but are actually extremely controlled. While there may be some slight variation based on weight, every element was designed to make the car do what they want. In the back seat POV in the video above you can see a giant “wheel” made of metal on the back of the seat that rotates. That wheel actually contains magnets that control the speed of rotation. The roller coaster’s speed and the track transitions determine exactly what the car is going to do. This is roller coaster design taken to the next level."
Unfortunately, as this prototype isn’t open to the public. You may have to wait a few years to fully understand what that next level coaster is. I promise though, it’ll be worth the wait.
Sorry Steel Vengeance, you are no longer my number one roller coaster. That title belongs to 800 feet of track in an empty field in the middle of nowhere Utah."
Yeah I'll take one....
1
15 hours ago, coaster sally said:Anything from s&s is risky. Let's be real. Even the 4d free spins have downtime. Steel curtain not reopening this year, gale force having to be redone, ring racer barely ever operated, some recent coasters in China with loads of downtime, etc. If its an s&s I would tolerate a 4d like X, dinoconda, etc.
Those 4d's are great and I'm sure no one would complain at having one but this Axis concept is their evolution of the original 4d coasters. Looks to be much more comfortable and less abruptly jerky than the standard 4d rides
From the S&S site (with a lot of over the top marketing intertwined)
"S&S has started a revolution! We have re-imagined roller coaster dynamics by taking our patented and proven 4D rotating vehicle technology and turned it on a new AXIS. The new AXIS roller coaster delivers deliberate and fluid movements that give the rider a feeling of flying unlike any other ride. This coaster redefines track elements that cannot be replicated by any other ride and creates a highly marketable attraction that will have your gates booming! Whether you want a high-thrill experience or a family-friendly coaster, AXIS will be the ride your guests want to ride time and time again. Let your customers in on the roller coaster revolution by letting them flip, fly and soar on AXIS!"
At any rate I wouldn't want to see a B&M dive or winged coaster on The Vortex plot because these or any other B&M models would likely only be the 4th best B&M in the park (I think the 3 best B&M models are already there) This S&S model conversely would be on the same level as the big 5 KI coasters giving you 6 very top tier coasters. Then later on you add a RMC that snakes through the woods like Outlaw Run or Lightning Rod and well.........Greetings and Salutations
1
KI is in very good shape compared to most parks, they wouldn't need to add another major attraction for another 5 years or so but they probably will before that time anyway...would like to see them add some low-mid intensity rides like the old Flying Eagles, the drunken barrels, etc. and as stated work on landscaping, adding flowers, trees etc.
I don't think this S&S would be nearly as risky a prototype as The Bat what with all the advancements in coaster engineering/technology over the last 40 years, From listening to the S&S rep from the 2nd video above it seems as if they are quite enthusiastic and serious about moving forward with this model. and are well on their way to having it worked out
1
1
I don't think it'd be a risk as long as S&S has all the kinks worked out. It would probably cost quite a bit less than a B&M Dive or Winged Coaster and would have a lot more character and would be appreciated by Enthusiasts and Casuals alike....Doesn't look crazy intense it just looks like pure fun.
3
They need to add this new S&S Axis free spin to the old Vortex area. It's like the complete perfected evolution of the original free swinging Arrow Bat design. Riders also say it's very comfortable (unlike the regular S&S free spins) and it would give a different ride each time similar to X2...Be cool if they paid homage to Vortex by painting the ride with the same colors.....Be perfect in that spot
2
37 minutes ago, RayFields said:I don't think KI will need another coaster for the next 5-6 years, I'd like to see the return of some rides like the Flying Eagles, Der Spinnen Keggers and rides like that. When a new coaster is added I'd like to see the new S&S Axis prototype be put into The Vortex spot and painted the exact same colors as Vortex...seems like it would be a good fit there after the 2 Arrows that preceded it
Then all you'd need is an RMC....something like Outlaw Run but with a longer ride length to take you through the forest to complement Mystic Timbers and The Beast.....sure would be a rad ride lineup
3
1 hour ago, coaster sally said:@cdubbs727 was mocked by a jack Nicholson youtube gif that said "whatever you say". @cdubbs727 ended up being correct. Pretty arrogant IMO.
Also things should be thought out better before making people upset. Maybe start a focus group of a few enthusiasses. They would be able to recognize closing off the line of your new 30 million investment an hour before close when you have been hyping night rides.
Man some of you guys need to lighten up a bit....You have to remember that these employees and executives have a passion for the rides and the park just as much as the public and I'm glad that they freely express their opinions and show a sense of humor....better than being all stiff and official like a politician
Some people are just too easily offended.....snowflakes
2
3
10 hours ago, Bansheelover said:Completed my 14th trip on Orion this evening. I have rode it 2x in the front, 9 in the very back, and 3 in the middle. The front is most intense ride in the park. The wind whipping your face, and staring down the 300ft drop is intense. I did gray out a little on the helix tonight on the front. Very forceful. The middle I feel you're just along for the ride. Nice ejector air on the speed hill, but nothing amazing. The back is a lot of fun feels like you're holding on a runaway train. The first drop is very forceful which feels like you're getting popped out of your seat. The airtime is long and drawn out on the return hills, and the helix seems like it last forever. The last turn and hill to break run makes it feel like you will shot into the woods. The elements of Orion are fun, and fast. That is pretty much all I ask for. To compare it Fury or Millennium Force isn't fair. They're closer to the ground, and feel like you're in a race car. Orion feels like you are in a plane soaring above. I do enjoy the drop on Orion more so than Millennium Force it is steeper and feels like a free fall. Fury's drop feels like you've been shot out of canon. I am glad Kings Island has their giga coaster. It will bring thrills for years to come. It is a crowd pleaser, and very fun.
This is probably the most intelligent review I've seen of Orion....Orion makes you feel like you're an eagle in flight....you feel like you're gracefully soaring and then swooping down for prey....it's an awesome beautiful sensation and different from other gigas....
I don't think KI will need another coaster for the next 5-6 years, I'd like to see the return of some rides like the Flying Eagles, Der Spinnen Keggers and rides like that. When a new coaster is added I'd like to see the new S&S Axis prototype be put into The Vortex spot and painted the exact same colors as Vortex...seems like it would be a good fit there after the 2 Arrows that preceded it
2
1
Nothing worse than being forced to listen to dumpy modern day music in an amusement park....can pretty much ruin your whole day when you're waiting in line and Taylor Swift or Maroon 5 come blaring through the speakers
.No.......No.........Gawd No.....Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.............................
2
1
I think that starting next year Kings Island should stay open until midnight at least one night per week during their operating season (Friday would be best)
Kings Island has so many good night rides yet due to closing at 10 pm you really only have time for 1 per visit.....If they were open until midnight then you could get in 5-7 night rides....Orion, The Beast, Mystic Timbers, Banshee....heck even rides like The Bat and Adventure Express take on a whole new meaning at night and give phenomenal rides. That way you'd get all that goodness in one night...
I can only imagine the electricity in the park on a late Friday night with everyone scurrying around to get these rides in...be quite the scene (would probably attract a lot more high school/junior high kids also)
3
I don't even notice roughness, rattles, etc. unless I have a headache afterwards....roller coasters are never going to be perfectly smooth and that's part of their charm but if a ride gives people a headache then I think changes should be made...not sure what percentage of people acquire a headache after riding Banshee so who knows...dain bramage is not good
1
39 minutes ago, coaster sally said:Millions in new trains are a simple fix?
Simpler than tearing down the ride and putting something else there......If the trains are indeed found to be the culprit then the entire expense of the new trains should be on placed on B&M due them not designing/using the proper train type in the first place...Mistakes happen
5 hours ago, Pagoda Gift Shop said:It is also worth noting that Banshee has the "new" B&M invert trains, which could also being aging differently than the old variety.
I think that these new trains are the primary culprit contributing to the discomfiture on Banshee. The trains are much lighter than the trains on their other inverts and with Banshee being so intense I think the ride needs the older heavier trains even more-so than their other inverts.
Swapping the trains would probably reduce the shakiness/roughness at least to "normal" levels (on par with other B&M inverts)
If I was Cedar Fair I would bring this up with B&M during this off-season....should be a simple fix and threads like these will disappear into anonymity
Here's a different type of Orion review with some nice additional content. Highly recommend watching
Reviewer thinks the first drop is the best of any Giga and the 56 ft. speed hill is the best single moment on any Giga
2
1
20 hours ago, NegativeGs said:I wonder if the natural frequency of vibration of certain lengths of track interact with the bogies of the train, which in turn causes the rattle? B&M's track and support structures appear slender. This gives a very aesthetic appearance but can reduce the natural frequency of the track structure. Depending upon the amplitude of vibration of the track, this could cause loose wheel bearings to vibrate as energy is dissipated. Imagine pushing a shopping cart with a bad wheel, it is often noisy and can cause the cart to vibrate.
That makes sense also. If their is long-term differential settlement then the slender track/support structures may not be sturdy enough to prevent the wheels from vibrating (as the foundation is slowly settling/weakening and is less able to absorb energy) Coasters from manufactures that use beefier track/support structures wouldn't exhibit this vibrating wheel effect AS MUCH as the foundation settlement occurs over time......
21 hours ago, Maddog said:I've seen many rollercoaster supports/structures move under forces induced by the trains going by-that's just the nature of the design. At amusement parks I tend to look for high force sections of rides and purposely watch static members intently to see how much motion is visible under these loads.
But to attribute a rattle, which is honestly quite audible and felt on the train to these external movements doesn't make much sense to my engineering mind. The frequency differences between the two is significant. The slower moving visible motions seen external on the ride are very different than the jarring rattles on the ride.
Seeing the design of the wheels around the track (basically a captivated rolling cage) and reading of others mentioning the lack of adjustments, makes me think there are clearance issues which as tolerances open up (due to wheel wear) become apparent to the riders.
If you've ever followed a vehicle on the road with bad shocks you can visually see a bouncing wheel against the road surface. Shocks provide a damping force against the spring suspension, which is there to accommodate road surface imperfections and cushions what the sidewall if the rubber wheel couldn't accommodate. Long winded to say there is a lot that goes into the design of a smooth 'ride's in a vehicle.
I think some manufacturers have figured this out better than others on rollercoasters.
Yes that makes sense. My only question is why does the "rattle" on some of these coasters get worse over time? For instance Fury325 was very smooth for the first few years and then started developing a rattle. Same thing with Banshee. Seems the rattle gets worse over time and they change wheels frequently. If it was the wheels then every time new wheels are put on then the ride should be exactly as smooth as it was on day 1. I don't believe this is the case. Put on all new wheels take a ride and there should be no rattle or at least it should match the ride from Day 1
4
19 hours ago, Stitch said:The slight bumps or rattles experienced on Banshee don't bother me. The restraints that close too tight and get tighter mid ride, do however.
Exactly, That's why changing the restraints would probably make the ride much more enjoyable and then the rattle would be less of a problem
8 minutes ago, NegativeGs said:Another thing to consider is that B&M probably does not design the foundations, but rather they performance specify loads that must be resisted and anchor bolt patterns. Kings Island (or a General Contractor working for Kings Island) would then work with a local subcontractor to design and install the foundations, while the steel work of the coaster is being fabricated. If the subcontractor did not take foundation settlement into account in the design, then yes significant long-term differential settlement of the track could cause the 'rattle'.
Yes long-term differential settlement looks to be a likely culprit possibly in conjunction with other factors like the varying wheel gaps caused by the non adjustable wheels. Need to tighten up them tolerances
37 minutes ago, Kenban said:I remember a conversation I had a few years ago about the B&M rattle and the other person pointed out something I had not considered. Wheels wear down over time, which is pretty obvious. But what I did not know is that B&M does not include adjustment methods on the wheel assembly to tighten up the gap which opens up. Instead they assume their customers will replace the wheels.
Some other manufacturers do have a bolt, slide, rubber damper, etc, which can be adjusted to close the gap so that all of the wheels are directly on the track.
I have assumed possibly wrongly the B&M rattle is the train basically rocking a little bit, and if you watch the upstop on Banshee you can see it appears to bounce up and down and you can definitely see a gap open between it and the track.
I have definitely noticed differences in the rattle on B&M coasters between different trains on the same day which suggests at least to an extent the issue is on the train. My assumption is also the rattle would largely go away temperately if the park replaced the wheels more frequently, but this is very costly so I understand why they do not. In fairness I am also not certain if replacing the wheels would actually fix the issue.
Good points.. Wheels on the trains wear down at different rates and you if you can't adjust each individual wheel then you have a problem
35 minutes ago, wabashcr said:I'm sure the park keeps a close eye on ridership metrics, and would be in communication with B&M if they felt this was an issue. I don't think the park will view it as a problem until there's a substantial drop in riders, that can't be attributed to things like opening new coasters. I don't disagree with your point at all. I just don't think the park sees this as a problem. And as long as they're happy, B&M is happy.
Let's put it this way, the B&M rattle isn't exactly a new phenomenon. There was certainly enough data available with Banshee and Diamondback (not to mention B&Ms at other CF parks) before they designed and built Orion. If KI /CF felt the rattle was going to result in lower ridership, or hurt the long term return on their investment, surely they would have brought that up with B&M early in the design phase. So they either don't view it as a problem, or at least not a big enough one to justify the costs to fix. And I think that points to this being more of an issue with enthusiasts, and not so much the general public.
Sounds about right...
Orion Reviews
in Kings Island
Posted
I think Kings Island has five standout coasters: Orion, Banshee, Diamondback, Mystic Timbers, and The Beast. If you were to put any one of these coasters at ValleyFair, Michigans’ Adventure or probably over 90% of the amusement parks on the planet, it would be their best coaster and would surely standout.
Leviathan is a standout coaster for Canada’s Wonderland and most that feel Orion is slightly superior to Leviathan. But Orion doesn’t stand out at Kings Island the way Leviathan does at Canada’s Wonderland due to the fact that Canada’s Wonderland doesn’t have near the supporting cast that Kings Island does. In fact, Leviathan is the standout attraction in all of Canada and Orion is still a tad better.
The fact that Kings Island has five coasters that are very close to each other in terms of quality doesn’t allow for any single coaster to standout on it own. I actually like that Orion doesn’t completely overshadow all other rides like some rides do at their respective parks. The other coasters get to keep their appeal. There’s now just more variety. Orion was a very good fit for the park
I would even venture to say that the majority of park goers would rather have an Orion over a Veloicoaster, SteVe, Maverick, X2 or The Voyage. The size, the speed, the looks, the drop. It’s just more attractive to more people.
Nothing you put at Kings Island is going to standout with the lineup they have anyway, not SteVe, not Veloicicoaster, not The Voyage. It’s just people’s preference for what they prefer. Not everyone prefers the most intense ride. Intensity does not maketh the most superior experience.