ragerunner

Yes, but because of the huge debt they needed to see a significant return on investment quickly. They talked a lot about streamlining operational expenses that would give a quick reduction in overall cost. Maybe that is not materializing as they had hoped.

It will be interesting to see if this approach doesn't work for them if they try and sell some of the parks to reduce the debt.

It means they took on to much debt and the return on their investment is not paying off. I have a feeling they didn't want to wait until the end of the main season, because they are seeing some issues with attendance and income that are starting to build on their books. Blackstone is still on a buying spree.

I wouldn't hold your breath for your AZ dream. I think Action Zone is fine as it is being an area packed with high thrill rides. To place family flat rides in it would bring down the image that it currently protrays. If you want that type of atmosphere go take a walk in Nick Universe Actually, some of the best themed areas in different parks are the areas that offer something for everyone.

For 2008 I hope KI either gets a new water coaster with some good theming or several small rides that might go with a retheming of a park area. (Example: Action Zone being rethemed to a safari village with a few family flat rides and a kids play area.)

Actually I have heard in the past some discussion about the track building a race car type theme park. Who knows. I know Legoland is working on plans in KC, but I also thought Indy might be a better location. (Closer to Chicago, etc...) Plus, less competition in Indy than KC (with WOF).

That is for the whole chain. For all we know KI may actually be up with other parks in the chain down more than the 5 percent.

Since overall attendance so far is down 5%, I would say most of that increase in per capita guest spending is a result of higher prices in the park. It will be interesting to see how US parks fair this year with higher gas prices and a very slow economy.

If that parks theming turns out to be close to the drawings, WOW!!! This may turn out to be Ohio's version of a Sea World or Busch Garden type park.

Has the Columbus Zoo release any drawing or layout plans for the amusement park and water park area yet? I know they have comments on the theming and some ride potential.

Leave it as a garden area with a European cafe type restaurant.

Holiday World is an outstanding park. You can even get a Hamburger meal with fries and a cookie for $3.00 (drinks are free). Can you even get fries for $3.00 at KI?

I would not want to be a Geauga Lake fan after hearing that interview. It sounds like more coasters maybe on their way out. Geauga Lake may very well become a water park only one day.

Are they looking at the height requirements for White Water Canyon or Congo Falls?

So are you saying that the ride manufacturer's within the last year changed their height requirements on all these attractions, and that is why CF raised them so that they would comply with Ohio Law?

I guess we probably will never find out why Cedar Fair has extreme height requirements compared to the rest of the industry. I doubt its from the manufacturers, since they do the same type of rides at the other parks. When all is said and done, a family can go to another park and ride more rides together for the same dollar value as they are allowed to ride at Cedar Fair parks. Its just a shame KI is now part of Cedar Fairs height system.

I don't think CF hates anyone, well except maybe Kennywood, Busch, etc... HAHA!!! But, I still say these actions by them are to save a few dollars on insurance at the expense of the family experience. If Disney, Busch, Hersheypark, etc... can operate these rides and even more extreme rides (Spiderman, Jurrasic Park, etc...) with lower, safe, height limits then so can Cedar Fair, they just want to save a buck.

So are you saying that CF is more concerned about safety than other parks? Busch Gardens Universal Disney Sea World Hersheypark All have height limits for their Spillwater rides and White Water Rapids rides of 42" or less. That includes Escape from Pompeii, Splash Mountain, Kali River Rapids, Jurassic Park, Journey to Atlantis, Popeye, etc... I think it clearly has nothing to do with safety, it has to do with saving a few bucks on insurance at the expense of the family experience. If those types of heights were need to ensure safety then you would not have almost EVERY park in the US with lower height limits for the same types of rides. I can accept that they want all their parks to have the same height requirements. But, the point I was trying to make is those requirement are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than almost everyone else in the industry. WHY IS THEIR HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS MORE THAN EVERYONE ELSE? Is it because Cedar Fair is the only chain that is running safe ride heights and all the others are functioning in an unsafe manner, or is it to save a few bucks in insurance?

Explain to them that the park takes their safety seriously and that all of this was re-evaluated. Explain it will only be a matter of time until they can safely ride all the rides. Sounds like a win win situation. So are you saying that CF is more concerned about safety than other parks? Busch Gardens Universal Disney Sea World Hersheypark All have height limits for their Spillwater rides and White Water Rapids rides of 42" or less. That includes Escape from Pompeii, Splash Mountain, Kali River Rapids, Jurassic Park, Journey to Atlantis, Popeye, etc... I think it clearly has nothing to do with safety, it has to do with saving a few bucks on insurance at the expense of the family experience. If those types of heights were need to ensure safety then you would not have almost EVERY park in the US with lower height limits for the same types of rides.

Why? The park has made some major changes to height requirements that affect the park experience for kids and their families.

Well, one of my biggest concerned related to KI and CF came true yesterday. They raised the height requirements on several rides. Congo Falls 40 to 46" White Water Canyon 40 to 46" Adventure Express 44 to 48" Shake Rattle and Roll 40 to 42" Snowy River Rampage 36 to 46" This is really stupid!!!!! How can you take the only family water slide at BB and raise the height limit by 10". It a shame that I have to now try and explain to my kids why they can't ride many of the rides they road last year. If this is CFs way of telling the family 'to stick it where the sun doesn't shine' then they are off to a great start. No other major amusement park company in the US have these type of extreme height requirements. I guess CF wants to let the family crowd know they are not valued. Bring on the concrete and midways.

A warm spring day riding rides with my family.

Even though KI may get more people through the gate, the amount that each guest spends in the park is also drastically different as well. BGE is more expensive than KI for food (but the food is also better) & novelty items (KI isn't even close to what Busch has to offer). The per person spending is probably about $27 at KI vs. $50 + at BGE. (These are not hard facts, just a wild stab that I threw out there) BGE is also open 26 days more than KI. KI may bring in the people, but there is no doubt that BGE brings in more money. I have no idea which parks has the most income (I sure you don't either). But, since KI is open 26 days less, their operational expense are probably less than BGE. My main point is, seasonal theme parks like Dollywood, BGE, and even european parks like Alton Towers, Phantasiland, and Europa Park seem to do very well in providing park patrons with great thrill ride, and great family rides all in a well done themed environment. I just hope CF realizes that they can do the same, if they want, and KI is already well on its way at being a great theme park.

My real concern with CF from the beginning of the take over talks was, will they treat KI like they do Dorney, Valleyfair, or Worlds of Fun. Were very little attention is paid to theming the ride, themed areas, and overall family attractions. It just concerns me that most of CF parks have no dark rides at all, and really focus on a midway type look. KI was not designed nor is it a midway type park (even its midway, Coney Island) is a theme. I also feel that they have regressed KBF's theming and feel as well. With that said, it gives me hope that when they purchased the Paramount parks they understood that they were more like theme parks not amusement parks. Hopefully we will see more Mavericks with themed jobs, some dark rides, and water coasters, then just Mantis' with concrete.

I think comparing the income and theming potential for a park like KI to Disney or Universal is, well stupid. But, I still believe that KI and CF can pull off the same level of theming as Dollywood, Busch Gardens Europe, or a Silver Dollar City. All these parks have lower attendance than KI and I am sure don't have incomes any bigger than KI. So my question is, why can't KI or CF create theming on the level of these parks? They have B&M's and great dark rides, and well themed areas and attractions. It doesn't seem to be a situation were either you theme with a Disney budget or you do little or no theming as CF has done in the past. There is a middle ground, I just hope KI is allowed to be in that middle ground.