Buckeye Brad

I don’t have a specific suggestion, but I think KI would do well to have a few more items that are KI exclusive. Think of the blue cone. For me they are a guilty pleasure. While I’d like to be able to get one at UDF anytime, it’s actually more special that a blue cone is only available at KI. KI should have a few more exclusive items like that. Things with Kings Islandy names but also unique flavors. Butterbeer at Universal is another great example. My family still looks forward to butterbeer as much as the rides when we plan a trip there. Back in the 80’s, KI had these frozen tropical drinks (called Congo Coolers?) back by the Demon and also near the Zodiak. I emptied my piggy bank to enjoy those many times.

All great points Hoeter. Speaking of Coney’s influence, there a neat article about Walt Disney touring parks for research and inspiration when planning Disneyland. Apparently Coney Island was an important contribution to Disneyland, and by extension, the entire amusement park industry. Cincinnati.com article

The log flume “enhancement” at Six Flags over Texas is interesting and encouraging. So many log flumes and water rides have been removed in recent decades, and it’s nice to see one get refurnished, upgraded, and even hyped as a marquee attraction. Regarding Flash at Great Adventure, would be interesting to see the cost difference to add a second train. With all the advancements in “fast track switching” that have come out recently, seems like 2 train ops would be standard equipment on this coaster when installed at larger parks. I could see Holiday World adding one of these in 5 years or so as a “grown up” compliment to Good Gravy. Could even be on the same land.

Another interesting method is using air pressure. I saw a video years ago about the "Skyscraper" ride (usually in tourist areas like Dells, Pigeon Forge, Branson). The main element of the ride a rotating long, slender steel beam with seats at each end. Obviously any crack in the beam could be catastrophic. The video highlighted how they pressurized the steel tubes with air, and the ride system electronically monitored that pressure to detect even the smallest leak instantly. Not practical on large coasters unfortunately, but I thought it was a clever approach.

I saw a news interview with Mr. Wagner where he said the the first employee he told (nearest) was an “elderly gentleman “ parking lot attendant They were presumably within line of sight of the crack, and this employee told Mr. Wagner that he could not see it. Seems unreasonable after watching the zoomed in video a dozen times, but it might be quite reasonable depending on this employee’s eyesight, cleanliness of his glasses, lighting at that moment, etc. Mr. Wagner then proceeded to guest relations, where the 4th employee he talked to (unclear what transpired with the previous ones) asked him to airdrop the video and then walked away to tell someone. Which does indeed sound quite reasonable. On one hand, I can see how the park employees would respond skeptically at first, as a cracked support is very unlikely . On the other, Mr. Wagner’s daughter could have been riding Fury at that moment (she stayed the park), so any reaction short of a immediate E-Stop would seem unacceptable.

KI is my home park, and I am super thankful that we have Orion. The first drop is spectacular, the theme is fun, and overall is a fine addition. That said, here are things that I prefer on Millennium Force: 1. The narrow and minimal train design feels scarier and faster. Every seat has basically “air” to the left or to the right. This is especially awesome ascending the lift hill, sitting left. Nothing but a lake 300’ down next to your lap. 2. Tunnels. They increase the speed perception. 3. The queue flybys at the end increase the excitement for those waiting in line 4. Directional changes. Granted, they are not exactly rapid fire, but they are more in number and intensity than Orion 5. The sprawling layout makes me feel like I’ve travelled further. The views change more dramatically. Even the smells change (Asian food to petting zoo in seconds). 6. Station vibe. Cant put my finger on it, but the arrival of empty trains, the retro future music, and the fast dispatch as the lift cable yanks the train increase the excitement for me. Still very happy to have both giga coasters in my home state!

Kings Dominion has, in my opinion, made the perfect choices to improve their two adjacent wooden coasters. Hurler turned out fantastic as a full blown RMC steel conversion, complete with inversions. Grizzly looks like another Gravity Group resurrection, that's both faithful to the original, and spiced up a notch. Different, but appropriate solutions. Likewise, Kings Island has made the appropriate improvements to Racer and Beast in my opinion.

Your Toronto Skydome comparison is a good one. I watched a game there, and while it a cool structure, it’s huge and impractical for a theme park. Am alternative might be to build a huge coaster outside as normal, but build a sleeve or tube around the track to protect it from the elements. Think if the tube around the launch hill of The Incredible Hulk continued over the entire run, or at least the areas that are high or stick out. Granted, a “tunnel” at 300 feet is one more safety risk and thing to maintain. But certainly cheaper than a Skydome. Many indoor waterparks use a similar strategy where part of the tube slides extend outside the building, yet are still sheltered. Less square footage of climate controlled interior sure required. When I was a kid I thought it would be ideal if The Vortex had a zip together tent like tunnel that would be attached along the entire track run every winter to allow Winterfest rides. A bobsled coasters like Reptilian (Avalanche) at Kings Doninion is halfway there. Just construct the half of the track and you have a “tube coaster”. Protected from the the elements. And faster ride due to less wind resistance.

My favorite guests are ones who laugh on coasters. For example, my wife is not a fan of big scary coasters. But on a family ride like The Racer, after a brief gasp going down the first hill, she starts laughing. Huge ear to ear grin. All the way through. It’s a beautiful thing. When the entire train joins in the laughter, it’s magic. Pure innocent joy with strangers. Rare to find these days. :^)

“Practical effects and optical illusions” One of my favorites is the beginning of the Peter Pan ride at Disney World. Specifically the ride through the bedroom, out the window, through the alley, and into the sky over London. It’s such a simple, low tech effect. There’s no mystery or “How’d they do that?”. But I love it. It has charm and it brings a smile to my face every time. In fact I’d love an entire ride of “flying over London” in the same style.

Very happy about all the GG TLC on Racer. That photo shows a transition curve that I always thought was designed a little bit “off”. Like the train struggled a bit through and lost some speed. I wonder if Gravity Group redesigned it, or just retracked it. Either way, I hope that Racer makes it to 100. Halfway there. :^)

Interesting answer. So how did it come to pass that most every other park adopted the individual lap bars? The cost to change over for a park like KI (with 7 trains) was certainly not trivial. I’ve always thought it interesting that even Holiday World transitioned Raven only a few years after it opened, yet Knoebels has not. When it was asked, I honestly wish that PTC would have said, “No, but simply adding seat belts will work just as well if not better”. I really enjoyed riding Hershey Comet last summer with buzz bars. My legs did too. And not to beat a dead horse, but I wish they would have asked about turning a train backwards. My understanding is that Racer and others don’t run backwards because the Manufacturer doesn’t recommend it, but I’ve never understood why specifically, especially since they ran backwards for many years without problems (to my knowledge). In any case, thanks for posting. I enjoy these kinds of podcasts where I meet the great people who make the fun possible.

Very interesting points. My RollerCoasterTycoon brain likes likes to expand beyond every border, but I get the reasons to expand inward or simply replace existing rides. Any actual expansion does require some amount of ongoing maintenance. Every new ride built, without removing an older ride, requires more employee hours to operate and maintain. I’d love if Orion went out and buzzed the Little Miami River, but all that infrastructure in the woods has an environmental impact. As attractions like The Bat, Timberwolf, Congo Falls, Invertigo, and Backlot age out, plus The Vortex plot, and all the grass around the D’back station, I can see decades of “inward expansion” without ever having look outward. My guess is that KI is pretty close to where Cedar Fair wants it to be size and # of attraction wise, with only modest actual “expansion” decade to decade. Thought experiment: Pretend that steel coasters like Screamin’ Demon, the Original Bat, King Cobra, Firehawk, and Vortex had 100+ year “service lives” and no issues maintenance and with getting replacement parts. Now consider that KI still wants to add 2-3 hot and new coasters per decade to satisfy the market. At some point you have 30+ coasters, which is fun for us, but an ever growing burden to operate and maintain. And the bigger the park, the greater risk of losing $ when weather is bad on the next pandemic hits. Take it further: imagine if KI expanded like crazy and added world’s biggest and best attractions every year. Would the potential attendance and revenue increase come close to justifying it? Maybe in Orlando or Dubai, but not likely in Cincinnati. In the first few decades of KI, more aggressive expansion made sense. But now as a “mature” seasonal park in the Midwest, it’s probably a “slow and steady wins the race” mentality. Cedar Point expands inward because Lake Erie prevents otherwise. But it’s likely that even if they magically had more land, they would not be rushing to expand it too quickly.

I rode KD Grizzly this past summer for the first time. Got 5 rides in various seats, and I really dug it despite the obvious need for TLC. I have no doubt that a Gravity Group rehab like KI Racer and Beast would make Grizzly an outstanding destination wooden coaster. That quick headchopping dip into the tunnel is fantastic, and the secluded forest setting enhances the experience.

1. It's not a "show", but I recommend taking the time to walk through the tower gardens. There are timeline tiles for every year since 1972, and neat photo displays along the way that chronicle the history of the park. 2. Nearby the tower gardens is the Grand Carousel. Yeah, it's just merry go round, but its 96 years old and just had a major renovation this past winter. It looks beautiful, and the Wurlitzer organ is a great original touch and sounds fantastic. If you are like me and appreciate rare historic amusement park things, with a ridiculous amount of ornate detail and love, take a ride. 3. As mentioned above, I strongly recommend Phantom Theater Encore. Get there 20+ minutes before showtime. If you are not familiar with the original ride, watch this official POV from KI before you see the show. Plan to spend a few minutes after the show checking out the cool display on the theater lobby that includes some cool models. 4. The fireworks show at 10PM is well worth your time. This year it celebrates 50 years of KI, and includes lasers, drones, and original music. We enjoyed our view from right inside the front entrance.

I rode it last week. Fun, though my body struggles with the backwards run. I appreciated the Banshee style shoulder restraints (not sure if they are new). The tunnel even had changing scents as you zoomed through. It was all very well done, and a perfect fit for an amusement park that’s all about candy. This ride has a somewhat prominent placement in the park so the redecoration has an even bigger payoff than say Invertigo might.

Shaggy, I also rode SDL last Saturday (my first ever HP visit). You will be pleased to know that it ran just fine. I appreciate these oldies and had a great ride. The smiling riders on my train did too. It almost looks like a toy with it’s tiny track and little orange trains snaking around a spaghetti maze of huge B&M track, log flume troughs, and pathways, and feels like an oversized Junior coaster in a fantasy RCT land. I’m glad it’s still here. Great visuals and a refreshing break from the crazy coasters. :^) My son and I had fun imagining the board meeting to name this ride a name in the ‘70s. I personally would have vetoed “Superdooperlooper” in a heartbeat for something more fierce sounding, but now I’m glad that this name won the day. It’s perfectly ridiculous, honest, and charming.

I was there last Saturday, and expected Hershey to be packed. There were lots of guests in the front half of the park, but that back section with Wildcat and Lightning Racer seemed very desolate all day. I rode both of those coasters in the late morning and early evening, and it was always a zero-one train wait.

Racer 75 So this is an interesting experience. I love how KIs Racer towers over all of Coney Mall down its full length. It’s beautiful and defines the area nicely. The queue house is simple and short, leading right to the station. KDs is the opposite. The hill is barely visible from the Candy Apple Grove midway or anywhere else (unless I missed it?). And the line, what a needless Dr.Suess MCEscher maze of ridiculous proportions. Even the exit seemed like the work of a crazy person. Why was this designed like this when KIs was a perfect template? At KI I can reride Racer with the shortest of walks. At KD I’m walking a twisted pointless mile. Anyway, KD also lose points for not racing the trains on my day (I thought they upgraded their system for optimal racing?). They also get penalized for the paint on the coaster looking terrible. The ride however was decent. KI Racer has this split in the middle, where KD Racer stays adjacent all the way back. KD felt a little faster actually, since I feel that KI Racer struggles a bit with the transitions as it gets back to “parallel “. The speed off the turnaround definitely felt faster and reminded me of KI Racer rides from the 80s. I was also delighted to have the final dip (KI Racer’s was sadly removed for a path to FOF). It was as good as I remember and really gives a great little finale that I miss. So while KI Racer surpasses KD Racer in almost every way (especially after the recent TLC), KD Racer is still worth a ride. As with Grizzly, please give this some love. To be continued…

Finally made it to KD at age 48. I’ve been oddly fascinated by this park ever since as a kid in the 80s I learned that there was “another Kings Island” in Virginia. Rather than a full day trip report, here are some thoughts and comparisons to KI. International Street It’s such a weird feeling to see our identical Eiffel Tower standing at the end of a similar but different International Street. The trees here are big and full and really obscure the view. I liked it, but I also like the new cleaned up look at KI. The trees are a good preview of much of KD. The fountain was again similar, but different. It is darker and looks deeper, looking more like a natural lake. I really wanted to go up in the Eiffel Tower and compare views, but it was closed the 3 times I tried. Old Virginia I really like these themed areas. Very similar to Rivertown, and overall consistent and well done. The Shenandoah River log flume was solid. Every bit as fun at KIs. Props to KD for keeping theirs around since I miss the flume at CP and CW. White Water Canyon also fun. It has this interesting feature of dispatching 3 boats at a time, and at one point we all collected and bumped in a mid course brake area of sorts. Even a themed tunnel room at the end with some animatronic saw blades. Grizzly Very quirky location as you enter (and exit) through the gift shop. Could be very easily missed. I admit that this is my absolute favorite genre of coaster: wooden coaster in the woods. My first ride during the day was in the front, and pretty horribly rough. I felt bad that we got The awesome Beast and KD folks got this piece of junk. However, come sunset, I got 4 consecutive rides (second to last seat), and it clicked for me. Sure, it still badly needs work. The mostly empty train and profanity from the other riders confirm that. And the first turnaround is awkwardly slow after a nice drop. But after that turnaround it really let’s loose. The crazy head chopper drop into the tunnel is a 5 star moment. The rest is not long, but I’m telling you it is still a solid wood coaster with just enough mayhem. I bet in the 80s with buzz bars the Grizzly was almost Holiday World level woodie fun. I’d love to see Gravity Group work their magic on this. They could even put a little swoop on that first turnaround and really make this ride roar all the way through. Grizzly deserves it. Even in its rickety condition, those sunset rides were my favorite coaster rides of the day. No need for RMC, just TLC. Please restore this coaster, KD! Ivy Tunnel Kings Dominion earns 100 bonus points for still having their ivy tunnel, with rocking chairs even. It’s long and really dark. I really miss KIs. To be continued…

I was just at Carowinds last weekend, and can verify that Vortex is not there. However, The Vortex train bodies were indeed repainted and run on the Carolina Cyclone, so these kids are not entirely wrong. I did ride KI’s old Flying Eagles, currently called “Mountain Gliders”. An imaginative and well executed theme in my opinion. I’d rather have them at home, but glad to see they are being treated well. Finally, it was a strange feeling to see all the old Firehawk trains stored on the ground under Fury’s lift hill. Who knows if they will fly again?

Great info, thanks. I’ve wondered about the B&M giga lift hills too. Back in the ‘90s, I recall reading that there were engineering challenges with long chains. This was seemingly backed up by reading about chain failures on Magnum, the innovation of the cable lift on Millennium Force, and the separate chains on Steel Dragon. Then in 2012 B&M unveiled Leviathan with what appeared to be a regular giga length chain, that’s almost as fast as the cable lift to boot. I still have not figured out how they solved the problem using a long chain. Maybe the hidden trough has something to do with it? It is certainly more elegant than the traditional chain return gutter far below the hill.

Good point, and for many employees, this is the first day of their first paid job of any kind (with customers). I wonder what percentage of employees today are returning to the same position as last year. Many have switched stations, switched departments, or are now 1st time supervisors. It would not surprise me if over 50% of positions are employees new to that particular position.

The YouTuber and Vlogger theory is interesting. I imagine that even Holiday World would admit that they don’t need any more publicity for this event. Additionally, do they need more YouTube publicity for the park in general? My finger is not on the Youtube HW pulse too closely, but seems like they are pretty well loved on YouTube. Even if it’s true that HW gave extra preference to YouTubers, are we really talking about more than 30-50 spots? I admit I’m way behind the times on this stuff so I’ll admit if I’m way off. In any case, as a 5 time attendee going back to 2002, I’m surprised to not be invited. The funny part is that the lines for Raven and Legend are nonexistent during ERT, so I’d be happy with a “no-Voyage” ticket. I’m weird in that Legend is my favorite.

If that is indeed what happened (sliding out through the (larger than intended) gap, a seat belt between the legs to connect the harness to the seat would theoretically be the needed positive stop (albeit uncomfortably and assuming it does not fail). Ever since my ride on Falcon's Fury I've wondered why the abrupt "untilting" before the brakes. Now I wonder if that was intentional (as a redundant safety measure) to prevent this type of accident. When you think about it, on KI Drop Tower or similar, there should never be any force to eject a rider even if the harness is at a higher angle. Hitting the brakes at the tilted angle introduces a new design consideration. I know very little about ride testing, but it's hard to believe this was not caught during testing.