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McSalsa

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Posts posted by McSalsa


  1. 22 minutes ago, ThrillKingsFitzy said:

    Who’s retracking it?

    GCI- says so in both IndyGuy4KI's post and the linked Facebook post. Based on their work on Legend, and how smooth Mystic Timbers is, I would imagine Hoosier Hurricane is going to run way better when it reopens than it did previously.


  2. From the "concept" POV: this ride probably would have been a huge hit in the early to mid 90s when it was built. From the POV, it looks like a ride with some awesome laterals and airtime. The "drop into the lake" finale would IMO be one of the best finales on any coaster, rivaling things like Beast's helix and Magnum XL-200's ejector bunny hills (which are my current favorite coaster finales of rides I have ridden IRL).

    However, I do also think based on the fact it would have run PTC Trains, and how forceful these turns looked, that the ride would probably have become pretty rough by the early to mid 2000s. Kings Island has some good wood coaster maintenance, but a twisty and intense looking woodie like this running PTCs would have probably still slowly tore itself up. The ride would probably have developed a bit of a "mixed" reaction by the 2000s, kind of like how people see a ride like The Boss at Six Flags St. Louis today: some would love it in spite of the roughness, others would hate it, and it would likely end up somewhere in the middle on the Mitch Hawker wood coaster polls of the era (though it possibly would have been at or near the top of the 90s polls!).

    When RMC came into play around the early 2010s, this ride would have probably been a target of theirs. Cedar Fair might have bit the bullet on this before doing Steel Vengeance as a bit of a test, probably around 2015'ish. It probably would have become a pretty epic RMC, and I think they would have kept the epic tunnel finale BTW. (If the person who made this in NoLimits wants to make that concept- what if this was built, but then became a RMC later on- IMO it would be awesome)

     

     

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  3. 1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

    Which new ride had the latest opening date for its first year?

    For roller coasters, looking at RCDB, we have a tie: Firehawk and Son of Beast both opened on May 26th of their respective seasons, 2000 and 2007. Firehawk because construction started late and Son of Beast because, well, Son of Beast had numerous issues and they clearly started early on. Orion is probably gonna break this record, not due to any design flaws or construction delays (it is a B&M after all and construction appears mostly done, and test runs looked great) but because of COVID-19. Unless KI doesn't even open in 2020, in which case Orion could open sometime in April 2021 and thus not take this record.

    The earliest coaster opening was for TOP GUN, now known as The Bat. It opened on April 9th. The now defunct Vortex was not far behind on April 11th.

    RCDB didn't have a opening date for Flight of Fear, Great Pumpkin Coaster, Scooby's Ghoster Coaster, or Flying Ace though.

     

    • Like 3

  4. I got this video in my Youtube feed a while back. It explains a lot about these Intamin prefabs, and also explains likely reasons parks have not bought any new ones since T Express in 2008:

    My big takeaway from this video: HOLY COW EL TORO WOULD COST $35,000,000 ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION!?!? (This is more than B&M Giga Coasters!) Err, as much as I would LOVE to see a 200+ foot version of one of these at Kings Island, a ground-up RMC Topper Track/I-Box would probably be much cheaper and achieve similar results. Wildfire, a RMC Topper Track woodie around the same height and length as El Toro, cost around $12 million when converted to USD and adjusted for inflation. Considering Wildfire is also considered one of the best "wooden" coasters ever built, it seems like the RMC is a much better value for money as you could get almost THREE Wildfires for the price of a single El Toro!

    • Like 3

  5. 1 hour ago, MDMC01 said:

    Yes, I remember one Opening Day in particular (2018, I think, because Firehawk was still around) where all three of the Arrows didn't run as it was too cold.

    EDIT: Speaking of Firehawk, look how red the newly painted track was its opening year: https://rcdb.com/3793.htm#p=19045

    That was last year- I was there. It did not help that Cedar Fair had just updated their policy on Arrow coasters needing to reach 50 degrees to open, versus 45 in years before that. It also rained a decent amount on passholder preview and a bit more on Opening Day (though Opening Day was not as bad). Because of the "bad" weather though crowds were very light for opening day standards and many rides were under 10 minutes, save the new Kings Mills Antique Autos and The Beast when the 40th Anniversary T-Shirts were being given out.

    2018 was warm (70s), sunny, and crowded. I was there for PP 2018 too- my sister didn't even fill me in that we were going until we were halfway to the park!

    • Like 1
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  6. First up, I wanna thank @collin.klopfstein for showing me that phone app- I found it awesome and just spent a few hours digging through my old trip reports to try and log my ride counts. :P

    Based on that app, here is EVERYTHING I am missing from Kings Island, including Planet Snoopy...plus my reason why I have not ridden them yet. :P

    NON-KIDS FREE RIDES
    Kings Mills Antique Autos (Wanted to try these in 2019, but they were always a 45+ minute wait when I went past due to the fact they were brand new that year)

    UPCHARGE ATTRACTIONS: I have not ridden either of these, due to their extra charge nature and the fact you are held up by just some skinny cables terrorizes me.

    Sling Shot
    Xtreme Skyflyer

    "KIDDIE" Rides (Haven't ridden these due to their kids centric nature)

    Charlie Brown's Wind-Up

    Joe Cool's Dodgem School

    Kite-Eating Tree

    Linus' Beetle Bugs

    Linus' Launcher (of all the non-ridden kids ride I would be most likely to ride this one in the future as it looks decent enough)

    Peanuts 500

    Peanuts Off-Road Rally

    Snoopy vs. Red Baron

    Snoopy's Junction

    Snoopy's Space Buggies

    Woodstock Whirlybirds

    If I have been on a kiddie ride, it was probably because it wasn't THAT kiddie (see: Woodstock Gliders which I found pretty fun) or I rode it as a 10-year-old back in the summer of 2000.

    And finally

    Orion

    NO ONE (save maybe some KI Employees perhaps) HAS RIDDEN ORION YET- it has not opened yet!

     

     

     

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  7. I had a Kings Island based dream last night: I went and rode the Blue Racer, and had fun on it- good airtime and pretty smooth. I was killing time in the dream so afterwards, I got back in line but found there was a short wait (10 minutes or so) for the ride. I also decided to switch to Red Racer to see how it was comparing. While in line, I met some girl who was supposed to be my cousin or something, but I had never met this girl in my life so I dunno who she was. She was also kinda scared, but I got her over it, and after we rode Red Racer we went and rode...Invertigo for some reason. Then I woke up.

    I also a long time ago had a very weird dream: I got in line for Flight of Fear, but the que was a dark haunted Victorian mansion thing and there was no one in line, and it was crazy long. It also seems, every time I dream of Flight of Fear, there is always something different in the building and I never actually get to the ride.

    Also, a month or so ago, I did have a dream that included Orion. I didn't ride it in that dream because the line was too long (it was 1 hour). :P Later I had a 2nd dream that included Orion that was weirder: instead of myself, I was Don Helbig and it was media preview for Orion (this was before it was delayed due to Coronavirus). Suddenly I got a message on my communicator of severe weather, so for whatever reason I (as Don Helbig) went up to the 275 foot level of the Eiffel Tower to look and I saw a huge Tornado coming towards the park. I ordered the "tornado bunkers" (not sure if these actually exist at Kings Island) under Backlot Stunt Coaster and Orion to be opened, and as I was about to go back down to enter myself, I told the Eiffel Tower operators to come too but they had to evacuate more people there. I headed down and got in the Orion Bunker (which was filling with people) and then woke up before the Tornado actually hit.

     

     

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  8. While I have already done a Top 10 on this topic, I have some updates since I had a decent amount of repeat visits to both Kings Island and Cedar Point last year. And thus there was some shuffling. I will keep my OG Top 10 post up for comparison purposes, but here is a slightly updated Top 10. I also won't go fully over my opinions of every coaster since that would be re-treading ground:

    #10- Top Thrill Dragster (Cedar Point)

    Didn't get to ride this on my visit to Cedar Point in 2019. It had way to long (and slow moving) of wait for my tastes on a packed Saturday, and then it broke down and never opened on Sunday...which is sadly typical of this ride. It still holds a Top 10 spot thanks to my 2017 and 2018 rides though. My first ride in 2017 remains a experience I will not soon forget.

    #9- Banshee (Kings Island)

    I had quite a few awesome rides on Banshee in 2019, which were enough to get the coaster past the likes of Mystic Timbers, Legend, and TTD and into my Top 10 for now. For the record, it was already lurking just outside my Top 10 when I made my 1st post here. This is a excellent ride with strong g-forces and huge fun inversions.

    #8- Raptor (Cedar Point)

    On the super-packed Saturday I went to Cedar Point in 2019, I waited 45 minutes for Raptor to re-open because everything had monster lines: Rougarou was 30 minutes when that ride is usually a walk-on, and GateKeeper was 2 HOURS. I am glad I did, because I ended up getting a crazy good ride with awesome G-Forces and epic snappiness, and it was very smooth for a ride that is over 25 years old now. I rode again on Sunday and it was still very good, if just a bit worse than it was running on Saturday. These epic rides were more than enough to get Raptor into my Top 10.

    #7- Diamondback (Kings Island)

    Got some great rides in 2019, but nothing really enough to move this one (in spite of the ride going crazy and giving super strong airtime on opening day 2019 somehow). Diamondback stays at #7.

    #6- Magnum XL-200 (Cedar Point)

    This ride was a savior on the super-crowded Saturday with its awesome capacity, though it still had a 40 minute wait due to the sheer number of people in line. Granted early and later in the day it became a walk-on, I rode 3 times total. I also rode a few times more on Sunday. I still adore this coaster's epic ejector air and awesome location, even if it is a bit rough.

    #5- Millennium Force (Cedar Point)
    Millie drops a spot: my rides in 2019 were very good, but I am really starting to notice how the ride does lack strong g-forces in the middle and the airtime is just meh when compared to even "regular" (aka not going insane like it did opening day 2019) Diamondback, much less Steel Vengeance or Magnum XL-200...save for that last bunny hop, which has pretty good airtime. The coaster does make up for this with a epic first drop and amazing speeds though, and it has a pretty good ride length to boot. However...

    #4- The Beast (Kings Island)

    On its 40th anniversary season, Beast moves up a spot. My reasoning for this: directly comparing MF and Beast, both start off very strong, and both have great sense of speed (MF for actually being fast, Beast for feeling out of control due to being wooden) and kinda "meh" middle parts...but while Millennium Force's bunny hop near the end is great, it follows that up with straight track and a kinda weak overbank. Beast ends with its legendary double helix. For having the far superior ending, I had to put Beast a spot higher.

    #3- The Voyage (Holiday World)

    I didn't ride Voyage in 2019, but my 2018 rides (including my first night ride) were so good they alone managed to keep Voyage safe in the Top 3. The ride is being re-tracked yet again for 2020, so it should ride even better this season for anyone who wants to go to Holiday World when this Cornavirus stuff finally ends.

    #2- Maverick (Cedar Point)

    I got a ride on Maverick when I went to Cedar Point in 2019, but had to wait until Sunday and it kept breaking down on Saturday and had way too long a line when it wasn't. But that Sunday morning ride was awesome. Maverick is a fantastic ride and I cannot recommend it enough.

    #1- Steel Vengeance (Cedar Point)
    No change here- only rode SV once this year due to its lines, and waited until the park was nearly closed on Saturday so Fast Lane would clear out and the line would move 2x faster. This strategy worked, as instead of waiting 3 hours for it, I only had to wait...75 minutes. Yeah still a big line. However for waiting 75 minutes, I still got boatloads of airtime and numerous crazy head choppers and inversions on the side. Still my #1 coaster.

    And that is a updated version of my Top 10. :P Mystic Timbers and Legend fell out, not for any reason of their own but because the 2 B&M Inverts decided to barge in and there was no more room.

     

     

     

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  9. GP to Enthusiast has re-uploaded and fixed his error in the OG video. Here is the new version:

    Also I was apparently wrong about the train cycling several times before the main injures occurred, there were really only 3 "events" and not 4. (The support breaks, the 2nd train hits the dip and injures riders, and then Train 1 is E-Stopped when a ride-op sees the injured riders of Train 2)

    • Like 3

  10. Watching the test video: more evidence Orion is gonna haul from start to finish. The sideways turn looks very fast, and then the 200+ foot turnaround is taken at speeds near or above what Millennium Force takes during its first overbanked turn. And that is with the 170+ foot sideways hill before it to burn off speed, with a drop that is the same height (300 foot drops for both)!

    Orion may only be a 60-second ride from the top of the lift to the final brakes, but it should be a pretty darn intense and epic 60 seconds.

    • Like 3

  11. 20 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

    I can still see a Topper Track RMC working as those are always ground-up designs and only are partly steel.   The I-Box track on older structures is definitely plausible as a likely source of hastening structure fatigue, especially on larger wooden coasters where swaying structures are already an issue in regards to comfort.  The I-Box just magnifies that with heavier track, trains, and usually higher speeds and acceleration.  I wonder if NTAG and Iron Rattler have similar problems.  

      

     

    To be fair, NTG and Iron Rattler also didn't add 40 extra feet of height (and thus much more speed). OG Texas Giant went 62mph, NTG goes 65- a increase of 3mph. OG Rattler went 65mph, Iron Rattler 70mph. It probably has had some effect but Steel Vengeance went crazy when adding extra height and speed, not to mention the new "2nd-Gen" RMC trains are also claimed to be a source of issues, as they apparently are also heavier than the 1st gen trains. For the record from what I know, only Steel Vengeance and Twisted Timbers have the 2nd gen trains but I could be wrong (I dunno if Zadra for example has them). Twisted Cyclone- which also opened in 2018- still had the old trains and it didn't seem to have any problems. I would find it a bit funny if Kings Island got a RMC, and then it had the old 1st gen trains because Cedar Fair realized the 2nd gen ones stunk (or just had RMC remake the trains again, creating a Gen 3 train).

    Kings Island would also want something that could run 3 trains: I don't know if New Texas Giant has the same issues in terms of capacity Steel Vengeance has or not, but a park pulling 3,000,000 guests per year is gonna want at least around 1,000pph for a major attraction (all of the big popular coasters currently at KI- Orion, Banshee, Diamondback, The Beast and Mystic Timbers are at or above this level). Finding a solution to the loose articles/metal detectors issue would also something to overcome.

    If they wanted to keep Steel Vengeance's "mystique" I would also imagine KI may wait until 2028-ish (when SV is 10+ and some of the hype has died down) and/or build a Topper Track coaster that isn't as large (to be fair a topper track woodie that is "only" 185 feet tall would be able to claim it is the current world's tallest wooden coaster, though then you get the whole is topper track wood can' o worms). Plus this would give RMC more time to improve their coasters reliability and capacity.

    PS: I would also be all for a ground-up RMC (I can wait if it means fixing the Steel Vengeance issues though) not only because it would likely become my new #1 at KI, but because their custom structures look epic. This appears to be a drawing (maybe? Could be a photo, it blurs that line...) but it looks cool (from Energylandia.pl- the park's official site):

    IMG_6949-900x600.jpg

     

     

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  12. 5 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

    The creepy thing for me is I rode it within the same week, if not, within a few days of this and counted myself lucky for that timing.  

    Didn't they also reduce the trains from 6 cars per train to 5 that season?

    They did. Here is a video filmed a few days before the accident I like to watch from time to time, it is a "music video" made by CoasterImage.com (anyone here remember them)? Son of Beast can be seen running 5-car trains. Note: It is from 2007 so hope you don't mind good old 240p!

     

    • Like 2

  13. 23 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

    As long as its the same capacity as Vortex I'll be fine with that

    Using the webcams last year, on a day I was bored, I actually was estimating each coaster's capacity I could see. Vortex was pulling around 1000pph which was pretty good capacity.

    Here were my results. I watched each coaster run at least 5 cycles, and then used the best 3 cycles as an average (giving mulligans for walks of shame and stuff), and I got these numbers.

    Vortex: 1,029pph

    Diamondback: 1,314pph

    BLSC: 712pph

    Mystic Timbers: 949pph

    The Racer: 800pph per side (1,600pph both sides)

    These were estimated using the Mystic Timbers, Diamondback, and Orion Construction cams. I also looked at some Cedar Point cams to see how they compared:

    Valravn: 1,037pph

    Millennium Force: 935pph (oof- a bit bad for such a popular ride, Orion will smash this)

    Maverick: 858pph

    Iron Dragon: 933pph

    Steel Vengeance: 642pph (Worse than BLSC- no wonder it always has 2+ hour waits!)

    Gemini: 848pph per side (1,696pph if both sides running)

    I also could have done Rougarou but I got tired before I got to it and forgot. :P:P I no longer have exact numbers but remember doing this once for The Beast too, it got about 900-1000pph and Banshee pulled 1400-1500 (I expect Orion will be about the same as Banshee given the 4-across seating and train sizes are the same).

     

    • Like 3

  14. Update: I just re-checked GP to Enthusiast's video, and turns out my OG thoughts on what happened in 2006 were in fact true: here is what actually happened based on the video and what I have learned via the comments. Son of Beast was running 2 trains in 2006.

    1- Train #1 (could have been SOB's #2 but I'll just say it was #1 for simplicity) departs, climbs the lift hill, drops and hits the rose bowl. The ride goes fine however the forces cause a support to crack/break and a small dip to occur in the track.

    2- Train #2 is dispatched, and when it hits the rose bowl section that was damaged, riders feel a jolt but are not injured. The damaged area breaks even more and the dip becomes larger.

    3- Train #1 is sent out again, and hits the now large dip. Riders sustain injuries and some have bloody noses. The ride manages to complete the rest of the circuit and returns to the station.

    4- Train #2 is climbing the 218 foot lift, when ride ops see the injured riders of Train #1 and E-Stop the ride. Train #2 is stuck there, and remains there for days. News chopper footage of Son of Beast from around the time of the accident show Train #2 on the lift hill. Who knows what would have happened if the ride ops had been faster and Train #2 had cleared the lift before the ride was E-Stopped!

     

    • Like 3

  15. Well, seeing Orion test for the first time, I have 2 observations:

    #1- Orion seems to have a variable speed lift hill, but for the 1st test they seem to have used the lowest speed setting. (A variable speed lift hill is one that goes slower until the train ahead has cleared the upcoming block. In the case of Orion this would be a train hitting the final brake run)

    #2- The helix looks to be taken at pretty high speeds and with good g-forces. Yes, the trims were probably off, but this was also the very first test run (so the ride was not even broken in at all yet) and in much cooler temperatures than what the ride will run at in summer. So I expect the helix will be taken pretty fast and forcefully when the ride is open, save maybe on cooler mornings when the ride has just been woken up and runs slower (though in those cases, will the trim even kick on?).

    • Like 5

  16. Oof. More problems for Steel Vengeance. The ride is amazing when open (it is my current favorite ride based on ride experience) but it has issues: from what I have heard, and these are just rumors, is that Mean Streak's old structure is not handling the new RMC trains and increased speed very well. They are heavier than the old PTCs Mean Streak was using, and going nearly 10mph faster at maximum speed. This is apparently forcing Cedar Point's maintenance team to have to repair the structure fairly often, thus why the ride was usually not open for ERT in 2019 and now won't even attempt to operate during ERT on weekdays in 2020.

    The metal detectors also being needed on this ride also kills the capacity: dispatches are pretty slow because of this, so in spite of 3 trains, Steel Vengeance is likely getting 550pph on good hours, which even Mystic Timbers smashes (I have estimated MT to get 900-1000pph by watching the webcams before). Which is why you see 2 hour waits on even not-so-busy days when Millennium Force is only 20 minutes.

    As much as I would love a RMC I-Box or Topper Track coaster at Kings Island, these issues make me doubt one will come (same deal as with Intamin coasters) until these issues have been solved. Kings Island has been on a streak of adding tried-and-tested models with good reliability and capacity, and they have had lots of success so far with this.

    • Like 2

  17. Holy crud- this was the first amusement park I had ever been to back in 1999. I had not been back since, but I was hoping to get back there soon to re-ride some old rides as well as the new ones they have added in the last 20 years.

    This news sucks: Hoosier Hurricane, my first true roller coaster I ever rode, is probably going to be demolished as relocation for a wooden coaster would be very rare in this day and age. Cornball Express is probably also gonna go, and I have read nothing but good reviews for that ride, and while reviews were mixed Lost Coaster of Superstition Mountain seems like a ride that can't be moved easily. Tig'rr is also unlikely to find a new home due to its age, which also means a classic Schwarkopf may also bite the dust. The only major coaster I think that has a chance of finding a new home is the S&S El Loco, Steel Hawg, as it is fairly new having been opened in 2008. I don't know about the flat rides, some of those will probably find new homes I would imagine.

    TBH this is even worse than Vortex IMO. At least with Vortex's closure, the entire park around it isn't going and you know Kings Island will eventually replace it with something. Indiana Beach is likely going to be replaced by Condos or something. :(

    • Like 1

  18. 1 hour ago, Shawn Meyer said:

    Anyone in this thread done a recreation of Son of Beast with RMC topper track? That would be slick right there. We can only dream right?

    I dunno if this was anyone here on KIC, but Amusement Insiders on Youtube has made a what-if RMC Son of Beast:

    Also, I found the video by GP to Enthusiast a few posts ago very informative. I knew there was a bump in the double helix (aka the Rose Bowl) but I thought it was near the bottom of the helix, not the top, and didn't realize that a train actually came to a dead stop- I thought it still completed the rest of the course, but injured people and then the ride was e-stopped in the station. (Granted Train #2 actually DID do this according to the same video- sadly if the ride was E-Stopped Train #1 was back on the track and past the lift already...)

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 2

  19. Hmm. $10 million budget? Well, I think I have a few options:

    (I have ridden models of these)

    My Pick: GCI or Gravity Group Wooden Coaster: While the ones I have ridden are on a bigger scale (especially from GG as I have only ridden Voyage which is massive) even the smaller wooden coasters by these companies look great, and you could probably fit a lot of coaster under $10,000,000. Heck, Voyage adjusted for inflation JUST breaks the limit at about $11 million! Thus a wooden coaster by one of these companies would likely be my pick. I would go for something about the size of say, Legend at Holiday World (Around 100 feet tall, decent length, etc.) Still, other options are tempting...though I have not ridden them save ONE:

    (Have never ridden but am tempted by...)

    RMC Raptor: I don't see a listing for price, but given Six Flags is buying these and they are less than 2000 feet long, these are very likely under $10m and reviews for these seem amazing. Not to mention from the POVs, the pacing looks insane.

    Chance Rides Hyper GTX: These things look like miniature hypercoasters with great airtime. I still need to get to Kentucky Kingdom to ride Lightning Run, to see if it really is the baby Magnum XL-200 I think it looks like.

    (And then these ideas I looked up but are over $10m sadly)

    Intamin Impulse (only other model here I have ridden): Wicked Twister was $9 million in 2002, which sadly translates to about $13 million in 2020 so it breaks the limit, and I cannot find how much the smaller models cost. I did enjoy Wicked Twister though.

    Vekoma Bermuda Blitz or Shockwave: These look like awesome coasters, and the reviews for Lech Coaster have been very good. These also just break the $10m limit, and would be under $15m most likely. (Based on their prices in Euros, converted to USD)

     

     

     

    • Like 1
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