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Everything posted by BeastForever

  1. Beast: 1-1, 6-2 DB: 1-1, 1-2, 8-2 MT: Anywhere Vortex: 5-1 Racer: 1-1, 1-3 (ejector seat), 5-2 Bat: 7-1 FOF: Very front or any seat on the front of each car
  2. No. I don't believe so. And hopefully, it stays that way.
  3. Just as a friendly reminder: Please refrain from quoting an excessive amount of text or unnecessary photos : ) And unlike the last time Cedar Fair instituted techno music (onto a certain "themed" attraction of long ago), this time it will actually be even remotely fitting!
  4. But while were on the topic of groundbreaking feats, to be fair to be Intamin, the only other company to make launched coasters 80+ mph is S&S. Last I checked, they are no stranger to issues/failed rides either... For all the talk of Volcano being a so-called long term 'failure', if we're talking KD history, Hypersonic actually would be far and away their most flawed ride. (and if we're talking Paramount's four most ambitious projects in SOB, TR:TR, Volcano, and Hypersonic - Volcano outlived them all) On the topic of TTD, and KK, it is true that these far and away are some of the most, if not most expensive coasters to operate ever built. But like I said, they're the only ones willing push the limits that far to begin with. Of course TTD is going to be significantly less reliable and cost way more to operate than.....Rougarou, GateKeeper, Corkscrew or basically any other coaster with a simple chain lift.
  5. The year of Banshee coincided with the re-opening of KK, who at that time I would imagine made it a priority to siphon off what would have been KI-goers. Granted, how much of that can be attributed to Banshee's "disappointing" return I do not know, but that's certainly a factor to consider. But there was a ~3% increase the year following. How many of those were being drawn by the then-new Woodstock Gliders/Snoopy's Space Buggies? And how many of those were coming to ride Banshee for the first time? Again, I have no way of knowing the answer to those questions either, but I would imagine its a mix of the two to a varying proportion. That, and I think Cedar Fair still sees that a park as highly-attended as KI could benefit from some more people-eaters, which a B&M giga will most certainly be. Unfortunately, most of Paramount's installations did little to increase the overall capacity of park (whether it being low-capacity like FOF or Face/Off, or don't exist anymore like SOB and TR:TR). This certainly wasn't helped when the first ride received from CF is a recycled Vekoma flyer which even lost its dispatch-time decreasing recline on lift (three train) feature. We've come along way since then however. With four three-train coasters and a 64 -passenger flat in WS added, the capacity of the park has increased dramatically, which is another goal to invest in new rides/coasters. I've said this before, and I will say this again. If DB, Banshee, and Mystic Timbers truly did not accomplish what Cedar Fair was expecting/hoping, then there would be no giga, no B&M, maybe no coaster at all coming for 2020. Therefore, they must have worked out well enough. EDIT: And as malem points out, the TEA are not necessarily the most reliable numbers (they're the only attendance numbers though)
  6. Correct. But the filing of "Centurion" as a trademark in 2013, and ensuing Roman-styled teasers that popped up at Carowinds in the summer of 2014, wasn't necessarily a means to throw people off. An issue arose where the Centurion trademark had to be abandoned, leaving them to go with 'Fury' and ultimately 'Fury 325' instead. And for the record, Centurion will not be the name of any Cedar Fair ride or attraction in the forseeable future, as according to Trademarkia, it is marked 'DEAD' on their page and has been for quite some time. (https://www.trademarkia.com/company-cedar-fair-lp-222594-page-2-2).
  7. ^No. Not technically. Its still offered in their catalog (https://www.bolliger-mabillard.com/), and a brand new one opened as recently as 2013 in India. Its just that no park since then has asked for one, or the price was not right... This would also be true of stand-ups. They'd still make one if asked, but hasn't been for 20 years nows (and for good reason).
  8. Correct. Both investments: - were ambitious, groundbreaking, only-of-its kind - cost $20 million+. - significantly and rapidly deteriorated over time - underwent major alterations midway throughout their lifespans, at an attempt to salvage what was left (and at the expense of capacity) - operated in parts of just ten seasons - ended up being tremendous wastes of money that would have been much better allocated elsewhere. - and left behind painfuul reminders of what once was, and what could have been, in the form of permanent haunt mazes... ---------------- We know. Its incredibly disappointing, and really just sad to think about... Now back to the topic... 2020
  9. If this coaster does not live up to Fury simply because there wasn't as much money allotted to this project as was for Fury (and not as much money because of not as much growth potential), then that would make sense... But no, I do not believe there is some convoluted excitement limit/control scheme at play, strategically making sure certain rides aren't "too good" so as to not 'overshadow' rides at other parks. The truth is, a ride built at KI, of any scale, does not make Fury, Steel Vengeance, Millennium Force, or any other ride at any park smaller, slower, shorter, or less world-class. If Cedar Point's reputation as 'the go-to place for coasters' truly was of concern, then I don't think they would be building a giga or any coaster at all. Heck, would they have even built DB, Banshee, Mystic Timbers, or invest in this park in the first place? There is some overlap in the markets, but I think its safe to say at this point that CP and KI are far away enough so they don't directly compete with each other. ----------- My thoughts exactly. Suppose that in spite of this coaster so-called subpar stats, through one way or another it ends up being widely regarded the best giga any way, which I would agree is still a possibility (ie. not as long as Fury or MF, but better elements; or a better balance of intensity of comfort as opposed to I305). It wins #1 in GTA steel list jumping all of Fury, MF, and SV... So would this cause Cedar Fair execs into some sort of 'panic' - something along the lines of?: "WHAT?!?! That wasn't part of the plan! This was supposed to be just an "ok" ride, not 'amazing' or 'world-class'! This calls for drastic measures. We need to install hard trims ASAP on each drop, and mandate 5 whole minutes between dispatches to ENSURE that those Kings Islanders aren't having too much fun!"
  10. No. Unless you consider Griffon to be a hyper in spite of inverting elements. Ironically however, its much taller than the traditional hyper Apollo's Chariot, which is a hyper classification because of its 200ft + drop. That having said, B&M 'gigas' are still under their hyper model, as well as Goliath at La Ronde etc..
  11. The way I see it, anniversaries have virtually no true bearing on when major investments are made.This is why for the past year or I've been bemused at all CP fans that thought they were getting another major coaster for 2020 simply because it would be the 150th.... Historically, there has been no real link between major investments and anniversaries. Now, do they happen to coincide every once in a while because that just so happened to be the right year to add a new coaster (I305 - KD's 35th)? Of course. But Cedar Point for example, is not going to rush into a $20 million+ ride exclusively so that it its on their 150th. Why? Because suppose that instead of 1870, the park actually opened in 1865? 1878? 1912? 1951? KI instead opens in 1967, 1974, 1980, 1999 etc...... This would not change whats smart from an investment standpoint.
  12. ^^Correct. Its not just the timeline. But how would something record-breaking at KI 7-8 hours north diminish Carowinds' title as the "thrill capital of the south?"
  13. This just does not make much sense to me. Carowinds is 7-8 hours away and situated in an almost entirely different market. How much overlap could there possibly be? How far away do parks have to be to avoid these so-called "proximity" issues? A record-breaking B&M giga would perhaps carry as much notoriety as a record-breaking RMC in Steel Vengeance, but they would offer entirely different experiences... The difference between Intimidator and DB in height and length is negligible. Honestly, I find it a bit laughable to use that as an example of them "going bigger". Intimidator is 2 ft taller and only 34 ft longer. Do you consider that as "one-upping"? At the same time, DB has a 4 ft bigger drop, with a top speed of 80 mph, whereas Intimidator tops out at 75 mph. So if anything, it could be argued DB has the edge overall. Not to mention it consistently outranks Intimidator in a number of different polls/rating systems (and NOT just the Golden Tickets) : 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 So a giga just wasn't in the cards that year? After all, Carowinds already had a full-circuit, full-scale invert in Afterburn. KI was checking off a box that virtually every other major thrill park in the world had in some form. And KI was coming off a $24 million coaster in 2014. So a relatively inexpensive GCI obviously would have made more sense. CP was coming off a dive coaster from 2016, which while we don't know the exact cost, are generally are among the most inexpensive B&M models. (Griffon was $15.6 million, Sheikra $13.5 million). I'm not denying that CP warrants more investment than KI, but I think the instances you're pointing out are largely just products of the rotation/timeline. ---- KI, as we know right now is getting what is probably $25-30 million coaster for 2020. Meanwhile, all Cedar Point is likely to get in 2020 is some retro stuff/odes to the past. Nothing extravagant. But the answer to as to why that is is simple: The timeline...
  14. ^^Yes. But that and Maverick would be the only two coasters in the world with 'LSM lift hills'. A giga with a launch lift hill I think would be highly unlikely.
  15. I understand the point you're trying to make, but I don't think thats a great comparison, as TTD is an entirely different ride, and by virtue of being a one-trick pony, isn't bound to be many people's favorite in the park anyway. Same goes for Kingda Ka and Escape From Krypton. As @Ben43065 points out, more concerned with the length.
  16. See I'm not really getting this logic. Like I've said before, if the design of this coaster was the result of budgetary constraints (which I'm thinking is probably the culprit), then so be it. But I don't understand why you would want to make sure a coaster isn't "too good" so it doesn't outdo a coaster found at a sister park (one that is 7-8 hours away, and in entirely different regional markets). If you're making a major investment at any park, why would you not want the result of said investment to be as noteworthy as possible with the amount of money that is allotted? As for KI's proximity to CP, a Fury-esque B&M giga would not take away from the uniquenss of a record-breaking RMC (Steel Vengenance).
  17. Yup. Either that.... Or 3,000,000+ people every year prove to be virtuoso navigators, stumbling upon this obscure little southwestern Ohio amusement park, which for years enthusiasts have suggested (whether on purpose, or not) is not to be found "on the map" (Whatever that even means these days )
  18. If the length, height, and/or speed shortages are the result of budgetary constraints, then so be it. However, I don't think this would stop the ride from having inventive elements such the ones discussed above (and as seen in the NoLimits recreation) Regardless, this should make for yet another amazing night-time experience for KI, which can't necessarily be said for the other B&M gigas bordering their park's respective parking lots. ----- And I also stand by my sentiment expressed many months ago, which was that a giga of any magnitude would solidify KI's case for the best and most complete lineup of coasters outside of CP. Both Carowinds and CW have serious depth issues past there top 3-4 - holes which are not present in KI's lineup. KD's depth is comparable to KI, and I305 and Twisted Timbers are world-class enough to put them in the conversation, but losing Volcano was a huge blow to their lineup. I also don't think CF will be significantly adding to their thrill arsenal very much in the coming years based on how investments have been distributed lately. -------- Unfortunately, historic and timeless racing woodies designed by John Allen are not going to regenerate out of thin air (RIP Thunder Road). That's an edge the Kings parks will always have over every other park in the chain for as long as Racer and Racer 75 exist. No good wood coasters at either CW or Carowinds. No Arrow Suspended at Carowinds. No stand-out launched coaster, or quality invert at CW. Sit down boomerangs, standard Arrow loopers, and wild mice rounding out both of their lineups, where as KI has an inverted boomerang (rarer than you think), and a mega looper. Heck, even Carolina Goldrusher I've NOT heard good things about (quite the opposite, in fact) Even our mine train edges out what Carowinds in that department. ------------ So if you were to ask me the question "Are you jealous of Carowinds?" I mean sure, Fury 325 really does look amazing and I can only hope what we have in store can rival it in critical acclaim in spite of its "subpar stats". But the honest answer to this question would be a confident 'NO'. In fact, I somewhat pity them simply for the loss of Thunder Road alone. Thats something you can't get back... Ever. Now I know I'm getting wildly off-topic at this point, but really, I could not even fathom what it would be like to lose The Racer. I would be..... mortified...
  19. From what I can tell by the overhead blueprints (which is to say, very little) the layout seems to be either a mix of Leviathan and Fury elements or something entirely different altogether. I can't really tell. It appears to have some type of helix, which is good (something Leviathan doesn't have but Fury does). The turnaround hopefully will be something more like the treble clef found on Fury rather than the generic hammerhead found on Leviathan and many B&M hypers. As for what happens besides that. I have no idea... My thoughts exactly. I for one am willing to reserve judgment until we know all the exact details via official announcement (or better yet, actually riding it), but understand the 'anticipointment' some are having with what looks (keyword looks, we won't know until we know) atm to be a half-done roller coaster. Tensions, uncertainties, anxieties for many have been running quite high the past couple of days (and will probably continue for a time being). But I get that. Yes, obviously there is virtue found in being grateful for whatever the park decides to grant its devoted fans, but we're human after all. So there is bound to be some who will express disappointment in what they perceive as not what they were hoping/expecting (whether these perceptions/assumptions are well-founded or not). But as you said, I also feel like there is something we're not seeing, something that can't be observed from the information we have available - whether it be an inventive turnaround, sideways airtime moments, tunnel(s), thematic elements etc. Something to make the world's seventh gigacoaster amazing and unique and some way. As for what I think? Well, lets just put it this way.... Come April 2020, once all the footings are poured, track and supports are assembled, and ALL this will have blown over, I have a hard time believing that we won't be absolutely amazed at what they created for us, look back on these tumultuous times and simply laugh at what we were all thinking. When all is said and done, and media day/opening day comes around, I just don't envision a forum filled with disappointed fans, saying they found the ride to be 'underwhelming' or 'meh'. It didn't happen with Banshee, it didn't happen with Mystic Timbers. I don't believe it will happen this time around either...
  20. For me, I guess it depends on what the number is. 305 is stylistically appealing enough, as it rolls off the tongue easily and in the case of KD's giga can be shortened to I305 (as well as differentiating itself from the similiarly themed hyper found at Carowinds). 325 works because it looks nice and is a quarter of a way to 400. But something like Leviathan 306, Intimidator 232, or Kingda Ka 456, would not look or sound good. -------- Ultimately though, for simplicity's sake I would just prefer no numbers.
  21. I personally think either names would make sense for a giga towering over Coney Mall considering the original plans were to rebuild Old Coney Island's Shooting Star before going with Racer instead (and was considered once more before deciding on 'a terrain coaster' in Rivertown. And there also used to be Haley's Comet, Zodiac, Flight Commander... The celestial/sky theme works for me, but of the two I greatly perfer Orion, as a mythical hunter could also be tied into The Beast (which atm looks like it will come precariously close to).
  22. No. Centurion was trademarked on October 18th, 2013, Fury on January 23, 2014, and then 'Fury 325' on June 9th, 2014. The Roman-style teasers that showed up at Carowinds in the summer of 2014 would lead us to believe that Centurion was the original intended name, with Fury perhaps being used for something else (or as a back-up trademark). Somewhere in between the filing of separate trademarks Fury and Fury 325, an issue arose with Centurion already being in use by someone else, and thus had to be abandoned. Once they realized they couldn't use Centurion, they then turned to 'Fury 325' to fit the giga theme. ------ As a side note, to those hoping that numbers are not incorporated into this ride's name, I will say this: "So far, so good!" However, if we see some trademark pop up in the upcoming months along the lines of "Orion 330", or "Polaris 345", well, then....
  23. ^ Haha what always happen is that I bite my tongue for when I don't have the time to write everything I want to say down, and then out of nowhere WHAM! (And just to clarify to @LuvingKI, you are fully within you're right to demand something for the money that you pay, or if you would not want to purchase passes next year, if nothing new is to come next here. But considering its becoming ever-more-likely the great new attraction we've been hoping for, to bring you and many others back, I don't think we should too worried anyway).
  24. And what, in your view, would be the most recent example of Cedar Fair "weaking out"? (Based on your screen-name, I feel that we might already know the answer the answer to this question ) ------ As for the "great debate" that transpired a few pages back, I'd hate to bring it back up again, but there are some thoughts I'd like to express... Read closer into what silver2005 said, and you might realize that he was NOT putting words in people's mouths.... What he said is the people who are claiming the park is not on the map, are "suggesting, whether on purpose or not" that KI's business hinges on one ride. If anything, you put words in his mouth by saying that he's saying that people are saying those things, when he wasn't. He simply said that people are suggesting/insinuating such (and whether they intend to, or not). And I for one agree with his sentiment. Why? Because I just couldn't help to be struck by this certain recurring word showing up several times throughout the discussion.... When people use such words as "need", they pretty much are implying that the park is going to suffer some kind of negative consequence if they don't fulfill said "need". And this is why, silver used the words "whether on purpose or not". Those people might not mean what they're suggesting, but their intent is irrelevant to the result... Not only that, you have one member intimating they won't be buying passes next year, "if nothing new next year"... A better choice of words, would be "KI would benefit greatly from [x.y and z]", or "it would fill a hole in the park's lineup if [insert coaster type] was built". Sorry. Don't mean to be the word police or anything, but I do suggest being more careful with one's diction. ---------------- To be fair, there was one this one poster who did basically just that ...
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