disco2000

Plus Winterfest is basically a bonus season as reflected in prices because the season pass prices and meal and drink plan prices did not go up exponentially as a result of adding Winterfest... But it is amazing how many "enthusiasts" one does see at Winterfest trying to add to their ride counts...and how many first-world complaints KI gets about not having more coasters open...

The Ohio Governor gave a stern warning yesterday and asked for businesses to do the right thing or he will shut the state down...you can thank places like this when it happens....https://local12.com/news/local/laser-tag-in-hillsboro-refuses-to-close-its-doors-cincinnati

That does not look good at all...and this could be sign of the next steps... https://www.yahoo.com/news/heres-90-day-stay-home-212315432.html

It is interesting reading that article and the additional chart buried in it for those that didn't make it that far that shows that heavy social distancing is recommended to occur until end of August (light blue area on chart)...which if that is the path our country takes then a mid-May opening is out of the question... Now lot's of unknowns and variables have yet to happen and the next 10-15 days will be crucial in determining what path this country is going to take...and while it is great to see CF anticipate a mid-May opening (which they did qualify or as soon as possible after) it is really a guess like we are all making at this point...and as General Manager & Vice President of Cedar Point has said "It is important to remember that Cedar Fair is a publicly traded company and that affects the type and timing of our communication." In these uncertain and unprecedented times, it would be foolish to put too much stock in this announcement and alter plans based around this...as it could have been put out for stock purposes (Fun stock closed up 16.7% today)...as well as to probably put to bed all the calls and requests they are getting for refunds... As I mentioned early, I am going to assume they do not re-open this year so that I can be pleasantly surprised when they do...

****Subject to change Need that disclaimer in today's environment....

People need to remember this quote from above when someone asks the park what is replacing Vortex and they reply nothing is currently planned: "It is important to remember that Cedar Fair is a publicly traded company and that affects the type and timing of our communication." And oh yeah this statement impacts their response to the virus too.

I know several people that met all the criteria and all the symptoms and were instructed to go to the UC West Chester ER and they were tested for the flu, took a chest X-ray and sent them back home...never tested for Coronavirus...

Not what the amusement industry needs... https://www.tmz.com/2020/03/19/34-year-old-california-man-dies-coronavirus-visited-disney-world-florida/?fbclid=IwAR1THz2PnGX5RpqN6YG6Q0v3hLlVTHb1hD3DM4R3ww02Ypy44Ys3ob6ou3I&fbclid=IwAR1KcDNxSHtmL2s-2b-YUYXKvPqJ_SEdU2uRssuShqlRyHQ0F4IHJK-3_ls&fbclid=IwAR1PLItLUSbjH9hboUQNSKShPC9m70WOWJ7P4A3T6qAp9QB41Wdaa_MwBV8 And his poor family. Although he had an underlying health condition, any age can die from it...

This may answer part of your question as to how they could staff it in a parking lot...I am sure the conversation about hazard pay will be a topic of discussion as we work thru this...

The government is going to be paying for lots of things it wasn't expecting to. I am sure CF will negotiate a repave as part of the negotiation

Which is why I mentioned earlier that the Orders and Declarations passed because of this virus could allow the government to take over hotels and other areas for triage or other staging grounds to deal with the sick once hospitals are beyond capacity...an amusement park parking lot would make an ideal location for one of these temporary centers after the hotel beds are fully utilized...they are big and flat and easy access from interstates and accessible by medical helicopter and if this doesn't get under control soon, we will certainly see this start to happen... And it will be kinda hard to open a park when the parking lot is not available to a government controlled operation...

And South Dearborn Schools in Indiana already called the rest of the school year as remote learning...

While it may be true they are anticipating opening and are currently training new employees, that is subject to change - lots of things have changed drastically over a rolling 24 hour period...Dollywood was going to open and then almost last minute didn't. PGA tour was not going to stop and had round one of a tournament completed and then cancelled it. NCAA college conference tournaments started and then stopped. Everything is subject to change right now... It is too simplistic of an approach to say "it doesn't make any economic sense to not open the parks". We have no idea what "bailouts" are going to come from the federal government as they haven't been developed yet. We have no idea if CF has some "catastrophic insurance policy" to cover the event of an entire season not opening because of some world crisis (and if they have such a policy it would only be applicable if they do not open). Plus there are tons of accounting and tax regulations and other situations that we are not privy to that a company will look to use to the best of their advantage. There is a reason so many corporations do not pay taxes...No doubt Cedar Fair has lobbyists that will be pushing legislators on multiple fronts - one will be bailouts if they cannot open this year, and another front will be lobbying to allow them to open as soon as possible to try to salvage the season. Time will tell which lobbying efforts win out, if any... If one of the bailouts for example is that seasonal attractions that do not open in 2020 will have debt interest forgiven or delayed or a bailout to "make them whole", but if they re-open in 2020 then the payments begin and/or bailouts are significantly reduced, it might make economic sense for a park not to open this season...You don't think that will happen - well college students don't pay on government student loans and interest doesn't start until they leave college...I know it isn't quite the same, but we have no idea what bailouts are going to happen in these unprecedented times. Cedar Fair and other companies will be crunching the numbers as it stands right now and as new information becomes available. I am sure they have developed a date that says if the parks don't open by (insert date here), then financially the start up costs to get going will not exceed anticipated revenue. They may even have clauses in debt service payment related to making payments after every X number of days in operation so that could drive a decision... At a certain point it will simply be easier to remain closed and simply have season passes for 2020 valid in 2021. Any opening this year will inevitably create so many scenarios and requests for full refunds or pro-rated or whatever for those that already bought passes. Sometimes a simple sit it out and reboot next year makes the most sense... If the millennial generation keeps this up, then the delay and closings will be extended...https://news.yahoo.com/corona-corona-coronavirus-pandemic-doesnt-133416655.html Every day you wake up to articles of the younger generation doing this and defying orders... we have members on this forum that still traveled on a plane for spring break in the wake of all of this... Orders and declarations passed because of this virus could allow the government to take over hotels and other areas for triage or other staging grounds to deal with the sick once hospitals are beyond capacity because people are defying orders to maintain separation...an amusement park parking lot would make an ideal location for one of these temporary centers...kinda hard to open a park when the parking lot is not available... In these unprecedented times, things may not make sense based on looking at it from a simplistic, single sided approach, but when given all the information, companies will chart the best course they feel makes sense given all the variables and other items at their disposal, many of which we will never be privy to... Assume the park will not open, and then when it does, you can be pleasantly surprised and elated and happy and excited. There are more important issues right now than opening amusement parks...

And how many shuttered amusement parks around the country and world are sitting as vacant shells of their past? https://www.cnet.com/pictures/abandoned-amusement-parks/2/ https://blog.cheapism.com/abandoned-theme-park-14552/ Why hasn't anyone bought the steel or the land and developed? How long has Geauga Lake land been for sale? Once you take salvage value, depreciation, amortization, etc. into account, most really aren't worth much if not operating...calling the accountants on the forum...Like a new car rolling off the lot, you cannot sell Diamondback for what it was purchased for... Yeah it may be a lot of land, but given what we are going thru, the next issue will be all the shuttered buildings and stuff and an excess of property for sale. I'll leave the most recent balance sheet here...how exactly do they plan to pay off debt with no income? They list total assets at $2.58B and total debt at $2.15B...

Speaking of silent and to slightly change the subject to something more important and more pressing...how many of you students or parents with students have been officially notified by your school what their actual plan is moving forward the rest of the school year? And a vague we will continue learning remotely is not detailed....that could mean anything.. Back to theme parks...I suspect for KI we will not hear any statement until closer to the actual opening day...and I think any communication will be vague until everyone gets a handle on this situation... The other option if people demand an answer now is to just scrap the season now and say "sorry folks, all our parks are closed this year. Beagle out front should have told you.". Until they are ready to do that it implies they are hoping to salvage part of the season...

So in your situation, Wonderland is now considered your "home park". Canada just shut down their border to all non-essential travel indefinitely. What if that ban exists the entire year then even if the park opens, you cannot visit your "home park"... Maybe you personally were not going to visit that park anyway, but there has to be a lot of pass holders living in the states that Wonderland is their closest CF park... And I am sure CF has pass holders that live outside of North America - what to do if they cannot travel here or back.. Or Canadians that bought a CP gold pass... As you said elsewhere, the WHAT IF, THEN scenarios businesses are running to figure out what to do will be interesting...

Historically they were not...doesn't mean it won't change though... I know other than Steel Vengeance, you could get many rides in at Cedar Point in that first hour of ERT before Fast Lane was allowed in...I have been at the top steps of Valravn and within minutes of getting on and then ERT was over and the mad rush of Fast Lane delayed me getting on...

Oh I know, and so I am I. I would love to not have to compete with Fast Lane users to ride Orion...one of the beauties of pass holder preview day is we are all considered "equal" in terms of waiting in line!

Yes LOL because Fast Lane historically hasn't been valid on passholder only events!

Depending on how long this thing lasts, many may desire a refund for that very reason (whether it is granted or not is a different story). It is a strong likelihood now that my family's platinum passes will not be used for other parks this year as spring breaks were when this was going to be utilized, and the desire to rush to the home park when it opens is now greatly diminished. I know many that are of the mindset now that they will only visit a park this year because they already spent their money on the pass and want to get their "money's" worth. I know many that are now not going to buy a pass this year and sit it out... Well, considering they have been offering the "buy a pass for next year and get in the rest of this year free" promotion that has started in August that essentially has given a new pass holder 5 months for free, I think it is existing season pass holders turn to get in on that promotion and if this thing goes until June or July then we should get this year and the rest of next year on our 2020 pass . I do know that the "get in the rest of this year free" pass promotion has ticked off lots of existing season pass holders that didn't renew because they paid for the whole year only to see someone be given half of 2019 for free and fill the parks with crazy attendance levels. I know many that skipped buying a pass this year and figured CF would offer the same promotion this year, so they would just visit KI from August on this year...just like the rest of now apparently. I know many that are now glad they skipped. Under the Knott's situation, IF they implement that chain wide, then a platinum pass will have various ending dates based on parks that didn't open on time. It will be interesting to see how they handle that because I do not think the current pass holder software gives them this flexibility. For the parks that are open year round and they extend a pass into January, that is a simple process as the rest of the parks are closed anyway (but the pass would be valid for all parks until the new date, they are just closed lol)... But then how does that work for a Knott's pass for 2021. Say Knott's is closed for two months, will a renewal by 2021 then be prorated to cost two months less? It will be interesting to see how companies deal with this...

And this is exactly why I posted earlier in the thread that this isn't like the Chipotle food poisoning scare or the Jack in the Box situation where those companies HAD to offer discounts and freebies and promotions to win people back and I do not expect Cedar Fair or other companies to be in position to make such offerings... If Cedar Fair or other companies I patronize offer anything, well then I can be pleasantly surprised, but if this prevents parks from opening up this year, I think they will have such interest in people wanting to attend in 2021 that they will not need to offer incentives to bring people back... Many people took shots at my comments and said companies will have to give incentives to win people back...time will tell who is right.... I suspect we will both be right - some companies will be able to offer incentives, but I think many will not have the cash on hand to get through this and will be banking on people being so willing to patronize their establishment because of cabin fever and not being able to do anything for so long. If this was an incident that only affected one park in the chain, then yes absolutely I think Cedar Fair would offer incentives to get people to visit that park, but this isn't a Cedar Fair issue that needs addressed, the entire world and every business sector is impacted. That makes a big difference on what companies will be able to do and offer... Cedar Fair is certainly within their legal right to point to the all sales are final and operating schedule is subject to change provisions...A lot of people purchased their season pass before the operating schedule was made public... And someone at CF will go thru the math and projections and say for every pass holder that gets ticked and doesn't come back, X number will buy a pass because they were tired of being cooped up all year. Time will tell what their "crystal ball" tells them to do from a business perspective...

Who violated?

Since we know the park reads this forums, maybe a poll needs to be started so that we can provide input on this situation and give our opinions on things such as: How long is too long of a delayed opening before you would like to see a pro-rated refund? How long into the season would they have to go before you would feel it is best to simply scrap this season and make the 2020 passes good for 2021? Is it a July opening, August opening, earlier or later? Would you like to be offered a refund instead of a partial season? Would you accept payment plans to stop without penalty? Can those that purchased platinum be credited back to revert to gold if the travelling to other parks now doesn't work for you? Are you ok with a "our policy is no refunds" and sorry for your luck? Any other thoughts on how CF should consider addressing the situation

Maybe you should try for the baby this year with all your free time now and visit the parks next year Imagine the new set of baby boomers being born in the next 9-12 months...

Actually it is Autumn right now (March 1st), but yeah the warm months and wildfires didn't kill it....