disco2000

Dude, you are referencing a summer pass that some parks sold....and you are referencing what they mean by concerts and pay add-ons. A season pass preview has historically been a "special" event that a platinum pass would get someone into any passholder preview night being held regardless of park and regardless of which park was the "home" park. Further they state the the all parks passport is the equivalent to a platinum, which it isn't as it applies to the CP passholder preview. And the additional terms for the All-park Passsport says this with no mention to CP and their passholder preview: Additional Terms and Conditions by location: Canada’s Wonderland – Parking is included with the purchase of a Gold Pass and All Park Passport add-on. Knott’s Berry Farm – Gold or Prestige Pass with the All Park Passport add-on is valid only for admission on any regular scheduled operating day and is not valid for entry to Scary Farm. Parking is included with the purchase of a Gold Pass and All Park Passport add-on. Dorney Park – It is agreed between the Passholder and Cedar Fair that in further consideration of your admission to Dorney Park & Wildwater Kingdom that all claims for injury or loss allegedly incurred or caused while on the premises of Dorney Park & Wildwater Kingdom shall be raised and pursued only in the court of Common Pleas of Lehigh County, Pennsylvania. But we get it, there is a lot of wiggle room in the subject to change clause and we are not stupid and recognize that, and certainly even those willing to stand behind CF are certainly not stupid enough to admit that the language can be contradictory (or are they)....and that the optics are poor....

It's fine with Netscape

You mean from outside the park - nope. Anything within the park- yes.

^wonderland did that during Haunt as well.

It's not the first time a CF park has provided conflicting information..and won't be the last LOL. Tell us if the "make me whole" line is long on Monday

Wait until 2025 when they follow the SIX model and make the meal plans only valid thru Labor Day. How else will they squeeze extra nickels out of the captive audience...

“Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.”

Sadly, come August the chain could say "due to the merger, we haven't figured out the pass process yet, so just pay us what you did last year and in April 2025 we will tell you what pass that amount equates to" and people would still buy it LOL. I mean look at all the people on FB that post stuff like "I bought a silver pass, when am I allowed to visit the park." Or "does my gold pass get me into winterfest". Or people on the podcast post asking if their CF pass gets them into KK or Hershey lol

I tell people often that they get complacent with what they have and go visit another park to regain the appreciation of what we have!

It's ok, nobody in this market saw it either

It would be you to mention this

Don't forget Kings High School did a little walk thru exhibit thing during 2017 Winterfest at Coney Confections

Plus keep in mind how times have changed since the pool was originally built. How many people had a pool in their backyard then? Heck, how many people had a pool in their backyard 50 years ago or lived in a subdivision with a pool? Over the last 20 to 30 years, look how many people have put pools in their backyard or since around the mid-1990's live in a subdivision with a subdivision pool as part of the Homeowner Association fees! That is all the rage to build a clubhouse with a pool. Homebuilders go crazy building that stuff as part of the selling point for the subdivision. In part that is why The Beach, built in 1985, couldn't sustain operation (having KI across the street didn't help along with the City of Mason building a pool complex in 1995). In part that is why Surf Cincinnati, built in 1990, couldn't sustain operation. It is why local neighborhood swim clubs have had to create GoFundMe initiatives to help make ends meet. In addition to more entertainment options competing for your money, there is way more access to pools now. So outside of an amusement park type setting, pools will either be community centers funded in part with local taxes, the local Y's, and private swim clubs like Silverlake that has passes that range from $741 for an individual to $2,100 for a family. Or several order of magnitude greater than what a season pass to Coney costed. And sadly I don't think Anderson Township was sincere about really wanting to take over the pool that would be way oversized for their community. I think if it went for a vote it would have failed.

^Very well said. To take it one step further chain-wide. Remember that in the 2022 annual report released 2023 Q1, they noted that "In 2022, we sold a record 3.2 million season passes and generated more than $450 million in revenues from our suite of season-pass products, including all-season dining and all-season beverage....Operating costs and expenses for 2022 totaled $1.29 billion" So lets assume that each of the 3.2 million passes were all $100, that is $320,000,000 + $450,000,000 in pass add-ons = $770,000,000. So that leaves $520,000,000 that needs to be made up in resort revenue, single day entry, food and drink purchases outside of the season pass add-ons, and merch to reach their operating costs. Now we know that there were other more expensive passes then due to Platinum and Prestige Pass prices, so the total revenue from pass sales alone is somewhere between $320,000,000 and $640,000,000 if everyone bought a platinum pass at $200. Now granted not all of that is front-end loaded in your example, but season pass holders and associated add-ons accounts for well over half of their revenue.

I do find it ironic that you said the reason you quit getting a season pass was because in your mind they devalued the ERT that you enjoyed.... And yet you said "when purchasing a season pass, which explicitly states that it provides access to the park(s) during their public operating calendar, and there is no mention that these passes provide access to special events outside of the public operating calendar. Therefore, I expect to receive only what is spelled out and do not feel entitled to more." Then why did you feel entitled to ERT as that is not during the public operating calendar... Talk about being an unoriginal troll and changing your arguments to meet your narrative...as adorable as it is predictable...

What would YOU call it then if it isn't a benefit? Is it a gift, a bonus, a perk, an extra? To most of us, anything offered to passholders is considered a benefit. Whether you want to call it a bonus, extra, perk, gift, etc. it is still a "benefit" offered to you as being a passholder. Regardless, they marketed the gold+all park passport as being equal to a platinum pass and say so in the FAQ. Now with the CP passholder preview, a platinum pass out of the Schlitterbahn parks gets you into the CP passholder preview, while a gold+all park passport does not. Does that sound equal to you? You are smart enough to realize that those two passes are not "equal" as it relates to this event and that once again CF has managed to create issues because they cannot figure out how to properly word and advertise/market what they offer... And we get it Mr. Attorney that conditions are subject to change and caveat emptor and it doesn't meet the legal definition of "bait and switch" and blah blah blah, but the optics and perception leave a bit to be desired. Certainly the c-suite people with the large salaries they command could have figured this out before they rolled out changing the methods of passes offered. But maybe not, WTF would you change your passholder offerings knowing that in maybe a year or two with the merger with SIX that the entire pass process would have to be revamped, so why create confusion for a year or two?

Call the "bait and switch" police - CP just removed the Ferris Wheel from the event

I would expect the number of platinum passes sold at a Schlitt park is far less than the number of Gold+all park passport from Knott's. I guess your definition/interpretation of "benefit" is different that the rest of us. But being part of the legal team I can see why LOL. I think most here consider a pass holder preview event as a benefit of having said pass. And your argument of it isn't an operating day so it isn't a benefit doesn't hold much water compared to the add-ons. If that were the case, then why are meal and drink plans and season long fast line valid during pass holder preview if they are clearly marked as only valid during publicly open operating days? Under your argument they should receive entry only to the park for passholder preview. But whether you want to call it a benefit or perk or bonus or whatever word YOU wanna call it legally, the fact remains that a Platinum pass from a Schlitt park gets someone into the CP pass holder preview and the KI gold pass plus all park passport does not, which is advertised and addressed under the FAQ as being equal to a Platinum pass and is clearly not the case to everyone except you. Maybe if you had a pass and personally experienced this you wouldn't be defending the chain like only a c-suite employee would But I know we both agree that regardless of how disenfranchised a pass holder feels about this or the other stuff, the majority will ultimately still renew instead of speaking with their wallet like you did.

Let's try not a wall of text LOL. Summer 2023, CF announces and marketed they are doing away with the platinum pass and replacing with gold pass plus all park passport and tout it as the exact same offering as the previous platinum pass and still states that in the FAQ. For some reason, CF still keeps Platinum passes for the Schlittenbahn parks that are good at all CF parks. People buy a gold pass at their home park plus the all park passport expecting that it will be good for all the parks having a passholder preview just like they did with a platinum pass. March 2024 CP announces only 2024 Platinimum Pass holders, lifetime pass holders and those with a gold pass from CP can attend passholder preview. Those with an all park passport where the gold pass is not from CP are not welcome. So as it stands right now: Passholders that purchased a 2024 Platinum pass from a Schlitterbahn Park can attend the CP Passholder Preview (those parks still offered platinum). See block in red below that specifically states 2024 Platinum passes (that are only available for purchase as the Schlitterbahn Parks).... Passholders that purchased a 2024 gold pass and all park passport from any park other than CP are not allowed to attend the CP Passholder Preview. But the FAQ says the all park passport is equivalent to a platinum pass, and yet they are not the same with this example.... Just another of the long line of examples of CF not being able to clearly convey what they are selling.... And from a Schlitterbahn webpage:

All I have heard is they are looking into saving Moonlight Gardens, but I don't think they have committed to it. Irrelevant question now, but would the Coney lovers preferred they save the pool or the gardens? Is saving the gardens, if they decide to do it, enough goodwill or was it the pool everyone wanted? Let me give you a counter to think about regarding you mentioning considering not being a CSO supporter in the future. But let me start with since some here seem to think I am a Coney hater, that is unequivocally false. My family is a multi-generational lover, supporter, and attendee of all things Coney Island. I bet my family had passes to Coney longer than many of the Coney supporters protesting what is happening. Let's just say I might not be here if it were not for Coney Island LOL.... But I am also a realist and know that my love and nostalgia for the place doesn't pay their bills and if a private business owner decides to sell the business, that is their choice. And if the purchaser wants to do something else with the land, that is their choice. Again, my memories of the place doesn't pay their bills. Let me also put on the record that I am not a CSO supporter LOL. At least not in a financial sense. It is great that they provide a world-class orchestra and musical experience for those into that scene, but I have never attended a CSO event or concert and never went to Riverbend and never made a financial contribution. Not my scene. I won't be going to any concerts there in the future either. Again, not my scene. I would rather it have remained Coney. I think we have too many concert venues as it is, many of which are supported with my hard earned tax dollars. But apparently there were not enough people going to Coney and spending money to make it a viable business. But we also have to remember that Coney Island as a "historical significance" disappeared when the rides were moved to KI or demolished. They even wrote a book about it and had a farewell season. Further, it was Taft that ultimately killed Coney Island as a slow death. Taft bought Coney Island in 1969 and a mere FOUR months later in July 1969 announced they were going to close Coney and build a new park and move rides to what became Kings Island. Rides were either demolished or moved to Kings Island. Taft put the land up for sale. Taft could not find a buyer and reluctantly opened the pool and operated it for 4 years without making a profit and couldn't find a buyer and wasn't sold until 1987 and then sold again to the Walker family in 1991. So the Walker family operated Coney for 32 years before selling. Taft owned it a mere 4 months and decided to close it and moved all the rides to KI and then couldn't find a seller so then operated the pool for 15 years before selling it. I am grateful we got 50 more years out of the place and everyone under the age of 50 got to experience a glimpse of its former shell. I mentioned back in 2020 in this thread that I felt Coney got rid of the rides to speed up the process of making the land worth more as something else than a pool and would probably get turned into a concert venue or an addition to the casino. @BoddaH1994at the time said I gave Walker too much credit LOL. Maybe so, but the writing was on the wall then that Coney as we knew it days were numbered. And yes Coney did donate land that became Riverbend - it was a smart business move. It was land not being used and then their parking lot became a significant source of revenue. Some have claimed Walker made more in Riverbend parking than he did operating the pool. Had they not done that, Coney may have closed even sooner. From what I hear, MEMI wasn't the only interested buyer. I was told an out of state developer that builds those new apartments/condo things that we see popping up all over apparently was looking at taking advantage of the casino close by to build one of those types of communities like what took over Blue Ash airport. Floodplain and all because they would have simply elevated the platforms like the school that was built in a floodplain near Lunken Airport, they were looking at how to build there but their bid was rejected. And as I said when this sale was first announced, I thought they were stupid to wham/bam hit people with "hey Coney is closed and Riverbend on steriods is taking its place" and had they simply said they were closing and it is up for sale for some period of time that everyone knew about and then MEMI bought it, maybe the backlash wouldn't have been as bad? I can understand from a business perspective why they kept it on the down-low, but they should have expected some of this backlash. So then the question is, if it was a given Coney would no longer exist, would people prefer X number of an apartment complex or a concert venue that we are now getting?

^And yet it isn't the same when it comes to passholder preview at CP. Interesting that you caveat your statement with "Nothing has changed at all relative to what the purchase agreement was back in September, October, November, December, January, February, and almost all of March. Nothing." So by stating "and almost all of March" you are admitting they changed the purchase agreement? If not then why use the phrase "and almost all of March".... We get it you are their attorney and yes they never stated that passholder preview is a "benefit" of said purchase, but historically they offered a passholder preview without limitation/restriction as to which passholder could attend. And now they have. And yes we know about subject to change and past history is no indication of future performance, blah blah blah, but when a platinum passholder for the last 10 years has been able to go to CPs passholder preview and now they cannot after being sold that a gold pass + all park passport is the equivalent to a platinum passholder, I think you are smart enough to realize regardless of the legalize associated with it, that this passholder now feels like they were sold an offering that indeed isn't the same as a platinum pass. And ironically, the Schlittenbahn parks offer a Platinum pass while the CF "legacy" parks do not, and if you read the screenshot @BoddaH1994 posted, 2024 Platinum passes are accepted at CP passholder preview day, so folks from Schlittenbahn can attend but not folks with a gold + all park passport from any other park than CP... Certainly this was intentional as CF felt that those from a Schlittenbahn park are less likely to travel to CP for passholder preview than X number from KI... So this alone shows a Platinum pass is "worth" more or provides additional benefit that the "gold plus all park passport" does not. And I know you will blah blah blah that they are the same and blah blah blah, but the optics and perception is that there is indeed a difference between the platinum and gold plus all park passport... And now the chain has potentially set a precedent. Why would someone from a Dorney or Michigan's Adventure as an example want to renew a gold pass plus all park passport from their park? Renew at whatever park is getting the new attraction in the off event you are able to travel to a passholder preview? Granted it may not be a lot of people overall. But had this information been shared last August, CP could have potentially seen 30,000 or more people opt to renew their pass from CP instead of their "home park" and that could hurt the smaller parks in the chain. Or maybe that is the plan to be able to justify selling off the smaller parks as part of the merger..... And it are these types of business practices that will cause some to pause and wait until the following season to renew when they know what the offering is being provided, and that cuts into the valuable pre-season sales that the chain apparently relies on in August thru January or so...

Making us wait until Friday lol

I have said it before, but you sure do sound like you are part of the CF legal team You miss the ENTIRE point is EVERYWHERE CF has said a "gold pass + all park passport" is equivalent to what a prior platinum pass was. Now they have caveated these events that previously included platinum pass holders to exclude what the chain is selling as "equivalent" to a platinum pass. Had they kept the platinum pass concept, this wouldn't even be a discussion point right now. OR had they made this clear at marketing and change of the pass process that any park specific events are exclusive to the gold passholders of said park, then OK. I suspect they didn't say that because then many would have purchased the pass with CP in anticipation of the TT2 previews. I figured this is what they would do with the change. And yet here we are today with them still selling the gold pass with all park passport as being equivalent to a platinum, which they are showing is not the case. Personally I don't care because I wouldn't go to pass preview for just TT2 and select rides as we know how long those lines would be LOL. And maybe they should change the wording that you only receive the "special" benefits of your home gold pass for things like preview days as it would maybe manage the crowds just a bit. But the fact of the matter is they changed the direction 7 months after they started selling the passes touted as "same as platinum".... So when you gonna direct them to change the FAQ to reflect this? caveat emptor

I get it. As I have said before, at the end of the day, problems and all with the current direction the chain is going in, a season pass and add-ons still represents a tremendous value for the entertainment dollar and hard to beat on any other entertainment venue. Go to almost any restaurant outside of KI and try to spend less in a week on 2 meals per day than the meal plan for the whole season costs! Sadly, that also means they are given a lot of leeway before someone that says they are not going to renew actually doesn't renew.

Don't forget condiment upcharging.