KI Guy

@purdude86 You've got that right. I think it's even worse when you consider the lack of traditional sized flats. What was the last "non- giant" flat that was added that still exists... maybe Viking Fury around 1981? Woodstock Gliders was added several years back if you want to count rides in the kids area. I'd love to see something they used to have come back and several new ones. Put them in Oktoberfest, Rivertown, or Action Zone because Coney Mall has almost all the flats. My picks: Spinning Barrels (Keggers)/ Tea Cups (Culdrons), Huss Swing Around/ Larson Mega Bounce Zamperla Super Air Race/ Air Race Zamperla Endeavor Larson Tilt-a-Whirl/Mega Whirl Gerstlauer Sky Roller

I don't know if they were new or just new to me, but I really appreciated the animatronics near the midways. The green goblin that talks and stands up from the chair (my lame description, ha) is pretty darn cool.

Although Rivertown generally allows for more of what people consider theming than Coney Mall, I think it should stay in Coney Mall. Without Vortex, that midway is empty from Shake Rattle and Roll to WindSeeker. If they do put the next attraction in Rivertown I would at least leave a little room for a flat ride or two near where The Vortex entrance was. The current empty space, combined with the skeeball building only used for Haunt, makes that end of Coney Mall too sparse without something there. Also I think it would be cool to see them go all out on Old Coney theming for a new attraction.

Taft/KECO Best- Decision to include roller coasters in the park after they were generally regarded as old fashioned post-Disney. The Racer and The Beast specifically. Impeccable landscaping and attention to detail in area theming. Above all Kings Island is a special place. Worst- The Bat Paramount Best- World class kids' areas with relevant IP. Outer Limits: Flight of Fear, Action FX Theatre. Theming was excellent when they wanted it to be. A new attraction was added almost every year. Worst- General decline in park appearance/ cost cutting in landscaping. In hindsight the years from 2000-2005 were the worst 5 year period in park history. 2000- Son of Beast a very ambitious failure 2002- Tomb Raider: The Ride was a failure 2005: Italian Job: Stunt Track replaces the charming Antique Cars and provided cover to relocate the Flying Eagles. The parks were downright dirty in some places towards the end of the Paramount era. I remember the walls of The Racer brake tunnels covered in gum and writing. Cedar Fair Best- Diamondback- The first successful major coaster in 13 years. All major coasters have been well received and are reliable. Rides are rarely closed. Have largely corrected mistakes from CBS era (later years) Paramount. Worst- Diamondback- destroyed Swan Lake. Royal Fountain "revamp", Major de-emphasizing of live entertainment/special events, Fast Lane Plus and meal plans. Kids' area does not receive the attention it did in the Paramount era. Years with no additions are commonplace and non-coaster additions are scarce.

^ Just before pending brawl/riot

You got me, haha. Well if they do some of the other stuff first, FOF will probably be 30 by then. If they get if they were to get rid of BLSC soon it would probably be up for sale.

I think if it's to be replaced it's way down on the to-do list. I'd venture these come first: 1. Vortex plot - KI favorite lost/ seems empty 2. Tomb Raider Building- underutilized and ugly 3. Boo Blasters revamp- tired ride 4. Timberwolf re-purposing with Invertigo removal?- both have been upstaged and are now irrelevant 5. Bat Removal?- not as old as 'Draggin Iron' but more forces on structure 6. Flight of Fear lifespan?- Approaching 30 years old Then maybe Backlot. I think very few would say that ride was a good use of the site it's on but they might as well some more years out of it.

Couple thoughts: This probably confirms that no new attractions will be added in 2022 which is unfortunate, but at least it looks like no rides will be removed. I know the economic conditions have been the worst imaginable, but this will be 3 out of the last 5 years something new (other than general improvements) hasn't been added. In the same span 2 coasters have been removed. The question I suppose is with the reduced attendance from the pandemic "will Orion still be 'new' to people in its 3rd year?". If not, they'll probably lose some people. Remember if the new attractions didn't keep people coming through the gates they wouldn't add them. I'd think the free bring-a-friend ticket will significantly reduce daily ticket sales which will up attendance but drop revenue. I think Cedar Fair is definitely still in survival mode. I wonder when we'll know whether they will pull through, merge, or start having to sell off assets to pay their debts.

Don't know for sure, but I know older steel coasters were fabricated with railings and track bent on site. Pieces were welded rather than bolted together. It makes sense you would not paint track unless welding is completed. From around 1990 and later most track has been fabricated at the plant and also painted there. This is due to the use of computer aided design which is easier and more precise. Vortex and Magnum were bent, welded and painted last. Diamondback and Millenium Force were completely fabricated and painted at a plant and only bolted together onsite.

When Fearfest became Haunt (circa 2009) I remember there was a push to make Haunt adult. They pulled stupid stuff like making displays that mocked the just buried (murdered) Steve McNair, Michael Jackson, and Farrah Fawcett. They had some kind of "Heckle and Howl" thing where a costumed employee with a microphone made fun of and sometimes even sexually harassed park guests. (They actually did a much more subdued and playful version at Winterfest the previous year and it was great). Lastly they had a "Haunt maze" Club Blood which was themed to a club with dancing teenage girls. Not good. These weren't just stupid rogues acting on their own, it's what happens when you encourage " pushing the limit" and market yourselves as doing so. Today we don't have these problems mostly because the park realized their initial mistake. They learned that Kings Island can have a more mature event but should not progress into an "adult " event. I think they mostly have it right the way they do it now as far as intensity goes. Nice kids event during the day and a scary/intense enough event at night to satisfy the late teen and early to mid 20s target audience.

BeeastFarmer, I'm sure you're well-intended and this is more of a general statement, but I shake my head when I see people on here urging others to support the park like it was their family's small business. IF KIC'ers want to spend more money at the park and believe it's worth it go ahead, but KI is not a charity. To KIC'ers as a whole, please don't hinder yourself trying to boost a publicly traded company. The CF shareholders are big boys/girls who know the risks involved in investing. If you were ever cash-strapped as they are now, they sure wouldn't come to save you so don't ever think in that way. Cedar Fair is huge. Even if you were to sell your house and donate the proceeds to CF, that is a drop in the bucket for them. Your passes/tickets may have helped pay for a groundcrew's wages for a day, paint for a queue rail, or it may have gone into the shareholders' pockets. For these reasons it's not productive to say "spend more money so we can get more improvements and rides"; I see that sentiment (from others) sometimes too. If they're doing things right, people will do that on their own. Be a customer, be a fan, but it's not wise to ever think you owe or should give them anything monetarily. They're a business; you're a customer.

I understand their reasoning but I question the change. Generally I don't like adding additional friction to spend money for even a subset of the customer base. They seem willing to inconvenience a subgroup under the auspices of helping the majority. For that reason, it reminds me of the change in the smoking policy last year. I guess it worked for games because they still use those cards. I know I haven't bothered with the games since because those were always a spur of the moment thing.

@DonHelbig I was the at park yesterday and just want to acknowledge all the great work put into The Racer. The re-tracking makes a big difference in ride comfort. I love the old style graphics on the front of the trains and the simple RACER sign on the facade. Great work!

^ I know that was directed at the thread in general, but I never said it was the predominant motivator. I said I can imagine a very small subset of visitors see FL and decide to cut. You can disagree with that possibility, but it's hardly absurd.

^ Solid post all around. One additional thing I'd like to add is they, like all public companies, are susceptible to people who only care about pumping revenue now at the potental detriment of the business long term. Long-term investors and people on the board who care about the company outside of its monetary value should be vigilent.

^ Simply because they could use it to their advantage. Cinemark Oakley doesn't care how KI is perceived, but how they're perceived. If they were looking for even the faintest excuse to implement that policy, the incident at KI provided that cover. The incident at KI was caused by irresponsible young people and Cinemark Oakley's policy relates to irresponsible young people. To them it's better to say an incident at KI resulted in this rather than hurting their own reputation by saying incidents at their theater resulted in this. Ethically questionable for sure.

^Yes, I meant 'always' as in within the frame of memory of the customers, which is what matters when talking about how a business model is seen by the public. Of course there was a time when any business operated differently than it does now. It's always been a reality that some people will pay more for a better experience. There was likely caution against implementing a Fast Lane system in previous years because of the potential for backlash and bad long-term effects. When they implemented FL they decided to take a chance. Right now they seem to be doing ok with it, but it will take a long time to see if it has been a long-term positive for the business.

I know you are saying this somewhat in jest, but the reality is that's always been the business model for sporting events and theater. Amusement parks pre-FL hadn't offered tiered experiences on a large scale since the days of ride tickets. It's a big change and it needs to be thought of as such. In time FL could become as normal as pay one price admission was. Alternatively, we may see a move away from it should there be long-term negative effects, we just don't know yet.

^My mistake. I conflated KK and KI. Still though they used Kings Island as an excuse to minimize blowback.

Its highly likely Cinemark Oakley wanted to do this for some time, but they saw KI change their policy and could now use their change as an excuse to hide behind. It's a shame that things like this are being put in place. Have kids in general gotten that much worse than before?

I think although Fast Lane hurts non-FL guests' experience (because it has to), the issue got much worse when they started selling the season pass add-on version. It used to be that you could go to the park on a less busy day and next to no one would buy the FL add-on. On these days you could still get the fast moving lines we fondly remember. Now, since many have the perk as a season pass add-on, they will never wait in the regular line regardless of what day they go. This has resulted in a more defined A and B grade experience between FL and non-FL. I think the typical day at the park for the traditional season passholder has suffered quite a bit. People accepted original add-on to ticket/entry FL so they moved on to FL plus. People accepted FL Plus so they moved on to season pass Fast Lane. It's quite a move they pulled because they essentially got people to pay additional money for something which as a group they were already getting-- shorter waits in line. If I were running the park, I'd eliminate FL while increasing season pass prices because I think delivering a consistently good experience is more important than a cheaper experience that can be hit or miss.

Pay-to-cut systems like Fast Lane probably contribute to line jumping in a small way. I can imagine a very small subset of folks see the Fast Lane people getting ahead of them in line and decide "if they can do it so can I" and they jump the regular line. They may feel a little like Robin Hood at that point. It's funny to me that the only reason Fast Lane is tolerated at all is that they try to make the regular line not see it. If Fast Lane was replaced by a system where they just were able to walk through the regular line past 80% of guests people would absolutely lose it.

I think it just depends on how you look at it. I don't see it as limiting your ROI. While one demographic is turned off another is more enthused. I do recognize there are limits to this like the previously mentioned Intimidator 305. I think the park is big enough that they can have a very intense coaster and be fine. There will be some who come to the park just for that. I know that's not the usual approach with what has become a rather conservative publicly owned company. The board wants to see they spent X on the 202X investments and increased revenue by Y dollars. They don't want to see that they spent X on shoring up a smaller demographic for Y years, made the park ride lineup more diverse/distinctive and additional revenue is less clear. Since coasters are 25+ year investments, I think it's shortsighted to only think of how it will increase pass or ticket sales the first year or the second, but I know why public companies think so short term which acknowledges your point. The fact that the intense rides from RMC and Intamin exist, at least to an extent, proves that "something for everyone" can be accomplished with a more diverse group of rides rather than a large number of the "crowd pleaser" type of rides of B&M. I think KI had done a good job to not "overlap" their rides until Orion came out and provided a fairly similar feel to Diamondback. If the lineup was better before Orion and with Firehawk and Vortex can be debated, but few could argue it was not more diverse. The diversity I think means more time in the park because it limits "we already rode Orion so we can skip Diamondback etc."

White Water Canyon. It's the best river rapids ride I've been on by far. Most are compact and zig zag on flat land out in the open but WWC is sprawling over terrain in the woods. *Also before Mystic Timbers and to a lesser extent Diamondback it felt like you were WAY out in the woods far away from the park. It was even more awesome for that.

I definitely agree on the trees. As far as intense rides go, I think the great thing about having 10+ roller coasters is that they all don't have to appeal to the entire group of coaster riders. KI has already done this with the family and milder thrill segment, (Adventure Express, Backlot) but hasn't put money into the extreme intensity/forces part of the spectrum at KI (which today I'd say consist of mostly RMC's and Intamin). Just as not every food option is for everyone, I'm ok with not every coaster being for everyone. In the same vane, only a portion of guests go to the waterpark on a consistent basis. Some go all summer, but never go to Haunt. Sometimes one thing you love can be worth more than three things you like. That would be nice, but a big part of me would like to see something along the lines of the old Keelboat Canal. That would bring a lot of Rivertown feel back to the area. I know water rides are not en vogue right now, but someone has to start any given trend. If I were a betting man though, I would say that the next attraction on that site will utilize that building in some way. It's just too big of an asset to part with.