KI Guy

With an uncertain economy for Cedar Fair and KI just having gotten an expensive coaster it's likely the odds of getting one or more flat rides within the next several years is high. What would you guys like to see?

Kings Island has seen an especially dynamic past three seasons for coasters. Which option is most true for you? This is a fun, hypothetical scenario.

IF, (big if), the park wants to use the old Vortex site for a coaster I don't see a dive machine (or any other B&M): 1. Orion was a very expensive addition at $30 million. 2. Dive Machines are quite expensive. The last two Cedar Fair purchased, Valravyn and Yukon Striker were around $25 Million. If KI is set on a Dive Machine I would think they would have to wait a full 5 years to 2025 to spread the cost. Think of Diamondback ($22M) in '09 and Banshee in '14 ($24M). 3. I doubt the park wants to have that prime land sitting vacant for more than necessary. 4. I think the most likely option factoring in all of this is a family coaster or a ground up RMC with a cost of $15 million or less. I don't spend as much time with family coasters so I can't give a good example. For a ground up RMC, a great example is Zadra built last year with a cost equivalent between $15-16 million. If they are trying to make a true replacement for Vortex I'd imagine this is the more likely of the two. **By the way, the park did something similar with the $24 million Banshee and the $15 million Mystic Timbers following.

Do you know what? That is an excellent idea! With the addition of Diamondback, and the removal of Swan Lake, Rivertown lost a lot of it's old look and charm. A return of a real, nicely landscaped lake would help so much to restore the look at least in another location. For those of you too young to remember, this was Swan Lake. Today it is the site of the Diamondback splashdown pool, brake run, and station. Credit to the fine folks of KIExtreme.com.

Does anyone know if the band organ is working this year?

Seeing the old Vortex plot empty was odd and a little sad. Seeing it empty also proved to me that a coaster and little else could go there as you can see how truly "un-flat" that plot is.

@FOFirehawkFAN, the SOB chain echo was a KI signature in the same way. How likely is it that at the time they get rid of Invertigo they also remove Timberwolf and Congo Falls? That would open a lot of flat, usable space for midways flats, a coaster, or a newer, larger water ride. Personally, I'd hate to see a water ride go without a replacement.

That's a pretty a broad brush. I doubt you'd say the same about people with other bad habits or addictions. Almost everyone does something they regret. Banning smoking entirely might minutely improve the experience of non-smokers who aren't in a group with smokers, but KI is a business and a lot of their customers are smokers. KI is a product. They have to cater to a customer. A national park is not a business, and will exist whether people come or not. They can have that policy with no ill-effects. I do get an occasional whiff of smoke from time to time at KI. I think the best solution would be smoking areas more off the beaten path. I don't know what laws exist for something like this, but if they could legally add lounges where adults over 21 could go inside and smoke that might further fix the problem.

That is interesting. If that turns out to be the case, I think that's more reasonable. I wonder if they didn't announce it as temporary because they want to see how people take it and then re-assess it later.

I'd think they'd have the option as no one has used their pass yet, and even so it's just fair business. Something has changed without notice to negatively affect the experience of smokers with season passes. I don't know how many would do that, but they should have the option. Yes, smoking numbers are dwindling, but around 20% of Ohio adults smoke. That is a lot of customers.

If in theory the park created a smoking patio way off the beaten path would you have a problem with that? I think there's an easy solution somewhere in the middle between smoking areas as they were and the full ban inside the gates. I personally think they're being particularly unaccommodating to smoking guests. I can imagine a good number of people will just light up in bathrooms, and where no one is looking rather than walk to the exit and back. Also for those thinking this is a policy due to the pandemic and not a permanent change, the park would have told us that.

It all depends on if a pool with extras is enough to sustain the park. I think they've lost a lot of their appeal by losing the rides especially in as a venue for company functions as others have said. I think they'll find that their reduced costs cut their revenue more than they anticipated. However, I know the pool has been very popular and at least in the late '70s, Coney survived as a pool. This has been a long time coming. Coney started down this road after about 2000 since then very little money has been spent on the dry side. I can understand this if money was very tight and they couldn't safely borrow funds for improvements, (and no one wanted to buy the park). If they could have done it financially, I think their best play would have been to be a better Stricker's Grove with a pool and more days open to the public. They would have a coaster about the size of the Raven at Holiday World and a kiddie coaster and would keep up their flat rides. I just don't know if the money was there for something like that. If it was, someone decided not to act.

I don't smoke, I never have. I don't even have friends that smoke. I don't like smoking, and hate the effects it has on people. However, I still think the policy is bad for business. Let me explain. This does not have the same affect as the no smoking law at restaurants and bars. Patrons to those places can smoke before or after they enter. Kings Island is a place where people spend up to 12 hours at a time. Most smokers do not go 12 hours without a cigarette. By making it a situation where smoking guests have to leave the park and go through security each time they re-enter, you are creating a deterrence for them to go to the park and also to not stay in the park. For a smoker it is one more reason to go have lunch at the nearby McDonald's. You can have a cigarette on the way. The rest of the smoker's group/family might go along too and not eat inside the park. Lastly, if the goal is to keep non-smokers from second-hand smoke, I fail to see how having an area outside the gate will help all that much as people will be exposed to it upon entry. If that is the goal, which I doubt, I think limiting smoking to only within Tower Gardens (former Paramount Story) would suffice.

Awesome pictures. I'm sure these were taken by a good photographer with a good camera. I wonder if the top half of the 3D Amazon Falls Sign is still in the sign shop so they can get rid of the cloth "Congo" sign. I especially like The Bat teaser and station construction pic. Preach brother. The pedestals were what made the royal fountain unique. I wonder how much money they saved with that decision.

I think two seasons is too early to talk about demolishing a popular coaster with some maintenance gremlins. Could someone elaborate on the extent of the mechanical troubles?

15 years does not cut it in the coaster world. That would be considered a failure. Imagine Diamondback only having 4 more years left in it after this season. There's no way, (thank goodness ). For their accounting, I'd think the coaster's asset value would be amortized over 30 years or so.

It's prime real estate, so I think they'll put a coaster there at some point. How the economy shakes out might be the difference of 2 years or more. *In an alternate world where log flumes are still a big thing, it'd be a great place to put one of those. They can be a trendsetter if they want though.

Thanks for the info. I wonder if this is partially to blame on the mostly wooden structure. Since a Kings Island RMC coaster would have to be built from the ground up, it could be made with a full steel structure. Maybe KI could get the first RMC T-Rex design. While this makes sense and I believe it to be true, I don't think that means that a big park should not build high intensity coasters like Steel Vengeance. Different coasters appealing to different riders is okay and a good thing. Just as more mild coasters (by today's standards) like Gemini and Iron Dragon serve their purpose, more intense ones like Steel Vengeance and Maverick have a place.

What are some of the issues they've had? General downtime? I think calling them the "new Intamin" seems a little extreme. Top Thrill Dragster didn't run right for a long time and the trains are still shortened to ensure it clears the hill. Maverick and Intimidator 305, both because of excessive g-forces, had to be redesigned before opening or shortly after opening. Shoot the Rapids could have easily killed people.

This is the best news that I could have hoped for assuming everything gies smoothly with the transition. I have advice for any of you who have never been to IB. Go to the park when are able to do so. You do not know how long the it will be around. Financially troubled parks often don't always come back. There are two experiences for me where a park closed on me too soon. In one case I got to the park one last time in another case I didn't ever get to go.

Based off of what metric? It's not obvious to me.

I see. That is a completely different circumstance. I'd hope they could just do the right thing and roll your pass to the following year or refund your money given the circumstances. Of course the decision is totally up to you.

I don't know you are or what you do, but you work too hard to be giving charity to amusement parks! Guys once again I don't foresee this being an issue. Kings Island is smart enough to keep the passholders happy. I'm sure whatever situation arises they'll make it right.

I can't imagine losing a home and irreplaceable things like family photos. It has to be the worst physical thing that someone can lose. I can say now at least for me I'll consider pandemics we can't treat well as a new possibility in my mind. I was a kid when 9/11 happened, but I'd imagine and people can attest to this or not, but I'd imagine most Americans did not think of the possibility of terrorism happening to them. Now I see it as at least a possibility and I think I'll think similarly about a largely untreatable pandemic.

I've heard similar stories about the generation who lived through the Depression. They always would act as if there might not be a next meal because for many years there wasn't one for a while. Thankfully, I don't think this will reach the hardship levels of the Great Depression which itself became a way of life for over a decade. I was thinking about that generation myself when I made the post. Thanks for sharing!