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Wow...a stock that was near $40 back in 1998...down to near $20 in 2002...now at $1.61....kinda depressing...i just don't know if I see this stock going up...especially with the government (not just "experts" but the government) saying gas prices are going to top $4 this summer and the economic slowdown *recession*...sorry but i think this is going to be a bad (if not bad, it's not going to be a "good") year for FUN, let alone SIX...

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If the economy downturn sticks, I wonder which parks survive.

I don't think that Disney or Universal will have issues.

I actually don't think that CP will have issues, either as it's become more of a resort/get away vacation.

The Busch parks can pull from Williamsburg and from Orlando.

Maybe Dollywood can pull from Gatlinburg.

But the other major parks?

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The song that both Messrs Shapiro and Snyder and Mr. Kinzel are singing is that high gas prices and a bad economy will help them as people go to their local regional seasonal park instead of destination parks like Disney, Busch Florida/California, and Universal. I, for one, don't buy it. And I think their absurd inpark food/retail pricing will permanently drive away many guests.

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The song that both Messrs Shapiro and Snyder and Mr. Kinzel are singing is that high gas prices and a bad economy will help them as people go to their local regional seasonal park instead of destination parks like Disney, Busch Florida/California, and Universal. I, for one, don't buy it. And I think their absurd inpark food/retail pricing will permanently drive away many guests.

Exactly, I just don't see their theory panning out the way they're claiming it's going to. I think they're grasping at straws...(at least they don't charge for those yet....)

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Guest kwindshawne

Back when I was married we had stock in a computer training company. It dropped so low, that they are no longer publicly traded. We should be able to gauge how this year is going to be by mid may-I really think attendance is going to be low this year. Even if season pass sales are up, that is a temporary thing. Where is the income going to be after that has paid for itself? The stimulus package? Won't do a thing-everyone I know is buying gas or paying bills with it-I dont know anyone that will be going on a shopping spree like they are hoping we will. On the other hand, right now is an ideal time to buy stock or condos-which is what I am going to do toward the end of the year.

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Except, except, except...at the tops and bottoms of markets, no one rings a bell. We could still be looking at a long downturn that has just begun, or at the bottom and six months from now real estate and/or stock prices could have already had a massive recovery. No one really knows. There were people in 1929 that were investing seconds before the crash...others sold at the lowest point. This is no different in that no one knows when the bottom will be, or if we have already seen it. And, just like in 1929, many alive now have never seen a recession, much less a depression.

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Guest kwindshawne

Right. I, for one, think the greed has not really bottomed out the market yet. I still believe it will be much worse before it gets better. I know my 401 has taken a beating, although it is better than I thought it would be. Stocks are not something I am comfortable messing with, although buying real estate toward the end of the year is a goal of mine.

My grandmother still hoards food in strange places in her house-and over the years I have worked in medical, that is a common trait in her generation. Perhaps we should all get a coffee can to stash cash. Those who haven't been through it yet are in for a rude awakening.

You know what really blows my mind? Here we are in the middle of a subprime disaster, and just yesterday I receive an offer in the mail for the same kind of loan. That is the issue-we never learn from our mistakes......

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The song that both Messrs Shapiro and Snyder and Mr. Kinzel are singing is that high gas prices and a bad economy will help them as people go to their local regional seasonal park instead of destination parks like Disney, Busch Florida/California, and Universal. I, for one, don't buy it. And I think their absurd inpark food/retail pricing will permanently drive away many guests.

Exactly.

I think that people are going to be doing the 1 destination trip (if at all) and curtail other activities.

I suspect if anything, parks will see an increase in the Water Park area but not in the amusement/theme park area.

The kicker here is that the move with GL may turn out looking like a brilliant move.

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Back when I was married we had stock in a computer training company. It dropped so low, that they are no longer publicly traded. We should be able to gauge how this year is going to be by mid may-I really think attendance is going to be low this year. Even if season pass sales are up, that is a temporary thing. Where is the income going to be after that has paid for itself? The stimulus package? Won't do a thing-everyone I know is buying gas or paying bills with it-I dont know anyone that will be going on a shopping spree like they are hoping we will. On the other hand, right now is an ideal time to buy stock or condos-which is what I am going to do toward the end of the year.

Ha, the stimulus package, I'm using it to make up for the taxes I ended up owing not to mention how much I've had to spend on books and required equipment for school.

I'm in agreement with Interpreter and Woofer, I see more people spending their money going to a destination park or vacation where their money goes towards a quality experience, what in the hell are Six Flags and Cedar Fair thinking with their outrageous food pricing and crappy quality. I love KI and have already bought my pass, I don't have to provide for anyone besides myself, but for families in Cincinnati; I just hope CF realizes there are plenty of other regional attractions they can spend hard earned money on.

Three new shows and nostalgia may be appealing for a family experience, but the high prices certainly are not. The Cincinnati Zoo, while not the best price in town, certainly is quite a bit more reasonable.

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Ha, the stimulus package, I'm using it to make up for the taxes I ended up owing not to mention how much I've had to spend on books and required equipment for school.

I'm in agreement with Interpreter and Woofer, I see more people spending their money going to a destination park or vacation where their money goes towards a quality experience, what in the hell are Six Flags and Cedar Fair thinking with their outrageous food pricing and crappy quality. I love KI and have already bought my pass, I don't have to provide for anyone besides myself, but for families in Cincinnati; I just hope CF realizes there are plenty of other regional attractions they can spend hard earned money on.

Three new shows and nostalgia may be appealing for a family experience, but the high prices certainly are not. The Cincinnati Zoo, while not the best price in town, certainly is quite a bit more reasonable.

Seems that CF and even Six have forgotten that the higher the price, the more sales will fall in the Resale Area. If they actually priced food appropriately, they would not only generate good will with guests but create a tidy profit.

In turn, they're increasing sales of all the food businesses around the park.

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^ I agree there, Woofer. Hopefully this year will be easier to convince my daughter that we are coming back to the park if we leave to have lunch/dinner outside. It didn't work last year when she was two, and it was either carry a kicking and screaming little girl out to the car or pay the higher prices for food inside the park. We chose paying the higher prices. :( It was much easier leaving the park at the end of the day, when she saw it was dark outside and we told her the rides had to go night-night. ^_^

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^ I agree there, Woofer. Hopefully this year will be easier to convince my daughter that we are coming back to the park if we leave to have lunch/dinner outside. It didn't work last year when she was two, and it was either carry a kicking and screaming little girl out to the car or pay the higher prices for food inside the park. We chose paying the higher prices. :( It was much easier leaving the park at the end of the day, when she saw it was dark outside and we told her the rides had to go night-night. ^_^

Just tell her that you're going outside the park to eat so that you're able to make return visits this year.

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Guest kwindshawne
Back when I was married we had stock in a computer training company. It dropped so low, that they are no longer publicly traded. We should be able to gauge how this year is going to be by mid may-I really think attendance is going to be low this year. Even if season pass sales are up, that is a temporary thing. Where is the income going to be after that has paid for itself? The stimulus package? Won't do a thing-everyone I know is buying gas or paying bills with it-I dont know anyone that will be going on a shopping spree like they are hoping we will. On the other hand, right now is an ideal time to buy stock or condos-which is what I am going to do toward the end of the year.

Ha, the stimulus package, I'm using it to make up for the taxes I ended up owing not to mention how much I've had to spend on books and required equipment for school.

I'm in agreement with Interpreter and Woofer, I see more people spending their money going to a destination park or vacation where their money goes towards a quality experience, what in the hell are Six Flags and Cedar Fair thinking with their outrageous food pricing and crappy quality. I love KI and have already bought my pass, I don't have to provide for anyone besides myself, but for families in Cincinnati; I just hope CF realizes there are plenty of other regional attractions they can spend hard earned money on.

Three new shows and nostalgia may be appealing for a family experience, but the high prices certainly are not. The Cincinnati Zoo, while not the best price in town, certainly is quite a bit more reasonable.

Yes...the zoo looks entertaining to say the least :o

In all seriousness, I plan to go there this year-I am hoping there are wolves there.

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Guest kwindshawne
The song that both Messrs Shapiro and Snyder and Mr. Kinzel are singing is that high gas prices and a bad economy will help them as people go to their local regional seasonal park instead of destination parks like Disney, Busch Florida/California, and Universal. I, for one, don't buy it. And I think their absurd inpark food/retail pricing will permanently drive away many guests.

It already has...I can't tell you how many complaints I heard about that just myself. At some point this year, I will have to determine if driving there to work will be cost effective-at $4 per gallon just on weekends...I don't know.

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^:lol: Well, considering the only money we spend in the park is for food since we have passes that's not too much of a problem, and we only live 7 minutes away from the park so gas $$$ isn't really an issue. But that may work... what does she know about money anyway, she's only 3!

You mean she's not a day trader yet?

Lord!

<G>

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I dumped my Six Flags stock about 5 years ago at around $6 a share. I paid almost double that, so this was clearly not a good investment. Six Flags was on a roll for a while, but they could not keep the momentum going. There was an interesting article I read about the decline of Six Flags stock. The nutshell of the story was that theme parks almost have to put in a new attraction every year to stay competitive. When the parks were adding these mega-coasters, the cost to build was outweighing the revenue as the parks would only get an initial bump for about half of the first summer the attraction was there, but then it leveled off. The article said that Six Flags was hit hard by this scenario.

Maybe with the high gas prices this summer, people will stay closer to home for vacation. This might help Six Flags, and regional theme parks in general.

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So what is Cedar Fair doing now? And will the cost of those investments be worth it? There are many who think that Cedar Fair is repeating many of the mistakes of the old Six Flags, from overexpansion financed by too much debt to putting too much emphasis on thrill rides to the exclusion of family rides and shows and maintaining infrastructure, to laying off/firing too much of the middle management that actually knew how to operate and maintain the parks.

Time will tell.

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Back when I was married we had stock in a computer training company. It dropped so low, that they are no longer publicly traded. We should be able to gauge how this year is going to be by mid may-I really think attendance is going to be low this year. Even if season pass sales are up, that is a temporary thing. Where is the income going to be after that has paid for itself? The stimulus package? Won't do a thing-everyone I know is buying gas or paying bills with it-I dont know anyone that will be going on a shopping spree like they are hoping we will. On the other hand, right now is an ideal time to buy stock or condos-which is what I am going to do toward the end of the year.

Ha, the stimulus package, I'm using it to make up for the taxes I ended up owing not to mention how much I've had to spend on books and required equipment for school.

I'm in agreement with Interpreter and Woofer, I see more people spending their money going to a destination park or vacation where their money goes towards a quality experience, what in the hell are Six Flags and Cedar Fair thinking with their outrageous food pricing and crappy quality. I love KI and have already bought my pass, I don't have to provide for anyone besides myself, but for families in Cincinnati; I just hope CF realizes there are plenty of other regional attractions they can spend hard earned money on.

Three new shows and nostalgia may be appealing for a family experience, but the high prices certainly are not. The Cincinnati Zoo, while not the best price in town, certainly is quite a bit more reasonable.

Yes...the zoo looks entertaining to say the least :o

In all seriousness, I plan to go there this year-I am hoping there are wolves there.

If you want wolves you need to go to Columbus. Since 1992 The Columbus Zoo has had one of the top Mexican Wolf breeding programs in all the nation with somewhere around 30 wolves being successfully birthed to the zoo!

Wolves=Columbus Zoo

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Funny enough Six flags looks to be making great moves to bring in more guests and turn around. The things they have done out at SFMM are amazing. I have been watching the transformation over at TPR and wow color me impressed. The X2 revamp gives new life into a ride that still can draw but had issues. Now with newer lighter trains it should be a people eater.

The sky tower has been transformed into a time capsule with alot of things from the parks past brought back. Rides are getting painted and rehabbed correctly. They are getting rid of rides that are maintance nightmares.

Those tony hawk coasters and Batman rides are cheap cheap spinning mice. They are fun rides though. Bringing in new shows as well as generally making the parks look nicer is what will bring Six flags back up this year.

Sadly I don't think Kentucky Kingdom will make it though the year. The entire back of the park is closed. They just got nailed by a maintance person saying they didn't inspect the rides properly. I could very well see a water park only SFKK.

But six flags is on the right track CF is off the tracks.

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Guest kwindshawne
Back when I was married we had stock in a computer training company. It dropped so low, that they are no longer publicly traded. We should be able to gauge how this year is going to be by mid may-I really think attendance is going to be low this year. Even if season pass sales are up, that is a temporary thing. Where is the income going to be after that has paid for itself? The stimulus package? Won't do a thing-everyone I know is buying gas or paying bills with it-I dont know anyone that will be going on a shopping spree like they are hoping we will. On the other hand, right now is an ideal time to buy stock or condos-which is what I am going to do toward the end of the year.

Ha, the stimulus package, I'm using it to make up for the taxes I ended up owing not to mention how much I've had to spend on books and required equipment for school.

I'm in agreement with Interpreter and Woofer, I see more people spending their money going to a destination park or vacation where their money goes towards a quality experience, what in the hell are Six Flags and Cedar Fair thinking with their outrageous food pricing and crappy quality. I love KI and have already bought my pass, I don't have to provide for anyone besides myself, but for families in Cincinnati; I just hope CF realizes there are plenty of other regional attractions they can spend hard earned money on.

Three new shows and nostalgia may be appealing for a family experience, but the high prices certainly are not. The Cincinnati Zoo, while not the best price in town, certainly is quite a bit more reasonable.

Yes...the zoo looks entertaining to say the least :o

In all seriousness, I plan to go there this year-I am hoping there are wolves there.

If you want wolves you need to go to Columbus. Since 1992 The Columbus Zoo has had one of the top Mexican Wolf breeding programs in all the nation with somewhere around 30 wolves being successfully birthed to the zoo!

Wolves=Columbus Zoo

Thanks-I'll check it out.

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Funny enough Six flags looks to be making great moves to bring in more guests and turn around. The things they have done out at SFMM are amazing. I have been watching the transformation over at TPR and wow color me impressed. The X2 revamp gives new life into a ride that still can draw but had issues. Now with newer lighter trains it should be a people eater.

The sky tower has been transformed into a time capsule with alot of things from the parks past brought back. Rides are getting painted and rehabbed correctly. They are getting rid of rides that are maintance nightmares.

Those tony hawk coasters and Batman rides are cheap cheap spinning mice. They are fun rides though. Bringing in new shows as well as generally making the parks look nicer is what will bring Six flags back up this year.

Sadly I don't think Kentucky Kingdom will make it though the year. The entire back of the park is closed. They just got nailed by a maintance person saying they didn't inspect the rides properly. I could very well see a water park only SFKK.

But six flags is on the right track CF is off the tracks.

I agree with everything you have said except one thing. The new shows this year at Six Flags (and virtually all of the shows there this year) are now DVD's from Dick Clark. I don't think this is a smart move at all. In addition, Six Flags has implemented a rather ridiculous loose articles policy...requiring that any loose article other than flip flop shoes be stored in a locker at a cost of $1 for 120 minutes. Anything other than flip flop shoes left in a station is supposed to be disposed of by security...be it a hat, a souvenir bottle or a large prize that won't fit in any locker or even a diamond ring, hearing aid, prosthesis, cane or eye glasses. This is not going over well. To put it mildly. People are walking out of the shows and are very very upset over the locker policy. The latter especially so as to parents who have been dropping off their teenage children with limited pocket money. Does the kid ride fourteen rides or get a hamburger, fries and a Coke? There is no longer money to do both....

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In addition, Six Flags has implemented a rather ridiculous loose articles policy...requiring that any loose article other than flip flop shoes be stored in a locker at a cost of $1 for 120 minutes. Anything other than flip flop shoes left in a station is supposed to be disposed of by security...be it a hat, a souvenir bottle or a large prize that won't fit in any locker or even a diamond ring, hearing aid, prosthesis, cane or eye glasses. This is not going over well. To put it mildly. People are walking out of the shows and are very very upset over the locker policy. The latter especially so as to parents who have been dropping off their teenage children with limited pocket money. Does the kid ride fourteen rides or get a hamburger, fries and a Coke? There is no longer money to do both....

Didn't CF try to do this last season? I definitely remember it at KI for the first few visits...but i can't remember about CP....

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Actually, for some time Cedar Fair did quite the opposite...making riders take EVERYTHING on board with them and leaving nothing in the station...which is just as dumb as, if not dumber than, the current Six Flags 'no loose articles' policy. At least it wasn't a transparent attempt to make people rent lockers for money.

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YOU'RE RIGHT...lol...i had it backwards...yeah that was ridiculous...actually at one point they were announcing to keep everything on board and i went across anyways to drop my stuff off at the side...had a couple of looks but that was one of the dumbest things i've ever experienced at KI...

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Over at TPR the GM of SFMM explained it pretty good. The lockers are there to keep the rides moving. They are working on improving dispatch times and this is a big way you can do it. I remember back when I worked at the park there would always be that 1 person who held the entire train up. The 1 dollar charge is there for upkeep of the lockers and to pay the staff they have there to help people. Basically he put it like this "If I wanted to nickel and dime you to death I'd charge 5-6 dollars for the lockers. You must remember the lockers are from an outside vendor. They use an outside vendors for their strollers. Its the same vendor. They have the big lockers that you can rent for the day in the front of the park still. They don't want someone coming up with a backpack full of stuff and leaving it there. Not only does it slow the train down they also get yelled at if its stolen. They wanna keep there lines moving and I think this is a good way to do it.

Infact heres the quote

The video is the very first cycle of new X2 train. We did not have a ton of time to prepare for the video, or to contact Robb to come and film it for us. I had thought you might appreciate seeing the very first cycle of the train. We are already working with Robb to come and shoot both our 1st and 2nd train that has already taken a few test cycles to date.

Several weeks ago we contracted a professional to come shoot the commercial footage, which we will use in future commercials. We have scheduled that shoot to take place as we are nearing the end of the project.

As for the lockers…, come on guys, if I wanted to make money, I would charge you five dollars to store your belongings. We are not forcing anyone to use the lockers. We are doing our very best to make sure you do not enter the queue line with loose articles. My only intent here is to train riders to not bring anything into a line or onto a ride. My suggestion, don’t bring anything with you that you can’t secure in your pocket! It is that simple. If it was feasible, we would have these lockers at all of the rides. The sole purpose is to increase capacity! Sole purpose! Remember, Tatsu last summer consistently had 6 minute and 30 second dispatch times… Unacceptable! We have made vast strides to reduce this number and have been very successful to date.

You may ask about gifts and souvenirs, we have a “free” package pickup you can use to store the items you purchase. We have lockers you can access all day long for 17, 13, or 9 dollars depending on the size you want.

I am not looking to nickel and dime the guests. How much do you pay to access the internet at Cyber Café? How much does it cost to go to the Magic of the Mountain Museum at the Sky Tower? How much is Package Pickup again? That's right... all FREE!

I have no problem defending the value proposition here at our park. We are a phenomenal value and working hard each day to make it that much more enticing! I am just blown away that this continues to be a sore subject with many of you… especially after we have continued to deliver on so many improvements at the park this season.

Guys, I CARE so much about this park! Just as each of you do! If you didn’t, you wouldn’t be coming to this thread. But please, be patient! I can’t share many of our plans, but certainly… or hopefully, you can all see that we are heading in the right direction. We never claimed to be perfect! We did say we were working towards it!

Keep the Faith,

Jay

Jay Thomas

Park President

Six Flags Magic Mountain &

Hurricane Harbor

Six flags has a suvenier pickup service thats free. They will hold on to what you buy all day and when you leave you just pick it up. I don't see why people leave glasses in the station. I wear eye glasses and ive never once had them fall off on any ride.

As for the shows not all of them are videos. A lot of the Dick Clark stuff is going for there in line TV's. Its still a good move to help money being tossed down the drain.

Another example of what will turn the park around is that they have crews that "own" there ride. They have them care. Heck there B&M parking lot coaster scream had balloons on its lift hill for its birthday last week. Its a little touch but the crew wanted to do it. you make your crew's care about the rides they will work hard to make it look good. Now if they can get this to happen chain wide then people would come back.

People will go cause its close to home and then word of mouth will spread. Good service is good service. Thats what will save six flags. They are in a rough patch now but brighter days are ahead.

It takes more than a few years to clean up 10+ years of crappy managment

They could of built it into the ticket price like holiday world does with its "free drinks, parking and sun lotion" or they can charge the ones who use it a buck.

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