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Mantis ran its first season without braking on the first drop. It was quite painful for many riders, and the park received many, many complaints. It also ran for part of the season last year without that brake being on, with the same result. The braking soon returned.

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Uh, as has been mentioned here before, the trims are not adjustable on Beast without manually removing them....I doubt that "they didn't have the trims on all the way, so it ended up giving me a back

Well seing how I rode The Beast tonight at about 10pm, I have the memory very fresh in my head. Everytime I've ridden it this year I'm more and more dissapointed in it. Its sooooo sloooooooooooooooooow. I hate the trims brakes!!!! I remeber the first couple years i started riding it, in about 1999-2000 it was so much faster! The next time I ride it I'm taking my hand held gps and clocking the max speed at various times through the day. I wont ever ride the SOB again after I rode it for the first time after the loop was gone. Its horrible, theres nothing to that ride now and in my opinion tear the thing down along with top gun and build something alot better. Oh and the FOF, ya that brake half way through the ride was put in about 3 or 4 years ago and it also destroys the ride experience. O well I guess for safety reasons they are there but it still sucks The Beast is being tamed.

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Somewhere in this thread someone said that you cannot adjust trim brakes - they are either there and on or you physically remove them. I'm not trying to be a stinker (or anyone else of that "ilk") but on Gemini at CP, they have a way of shutting off the trim brake a it rounds the third turn. Sometimes, when there are a lot of empty seats on the train, if that trim is "on" the train will stop.

I have also been on Mean Streak when some of the trims were not "on" - once again, a very empty train. This is because of other empty trains that were sent out before were stopping on the trims.

Now, all of this may have to do with weight - weight needed for the train to complete its course - but these particular coasters have the ability to have - at least in one place on the curcuit - the trims turned off.

As for those questioning "all things Holiday World" - possibly an answer.....they're in a different state and each state has different regulations regarding amusement ride saftey and inspections. This just might be why things there seem different than our beloved Ohio parks. But I still have to question why I can fit on every ride at King's Island and I am turned away from so many at Cedar Point because of shorter seatbelts - even though the ride manufactuers are of the same "ilk" and so on (and so on, and Scooby Dooby Doo). I just wanna be an everyday people!

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Well seing how I rode The Beast tonight at about 10pm, I have the memory very fresh in my head. Everytime I've ridden it this year I'm more and more dissapointed in it. Its sooooo sloooooooooooooooooow. I hate the trims brakes!!!! I remeber the first couple years i started riding it, in about 1999-2000 it was so much faster! The next time I ride it I'm taking my hand held gps and clocking the max speed at various times through the day. I wont ever ride the SOB again after I rode it for the first time after the loop was gone. Its horrible, theres nothing to that ride now and in my opinion tear the thing down along with top gun and build something alot better. Oh and the FOF, ya that brake half way through the ride was put in about 3 or 4 years ago and it also destroys the ride experience. O well I guess for safety reasons they are there but it still sucks The Beast is being tamed.

If you take your hand held gps and use it during the ride, you are violating safety regulations....loose articles are not permitted on the ride.

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I guess I fall into that "ilk" category as well. I do not like being refered to as an "ilk" and find it very offensive.

As for the brakes, I was at the park yesterday, and like normal, The Beast was running his usual slow self all morning long. Also, for the small amount of time that the Red Racer was open yesterday, the pointless trim brake on the turn around was on, and much harder than the Blue Racer. Blue was winning every race (which there were precious few of to begin with) by at least ten seconds, even though they were tied going up the hill into the turn around. Son of Beast actually came to a stop in the midcourse brakes, Vortex almost did, and of course FoF stopped as well. Gotta love those brakes.

Interpretor, it might not matter if dare-to-fly can live with it or not. It does not matter, either, your opinion on the price of food and the nickels argument that you keep bringing up. We are simply discussing a subject and venting our frustration about a chain of parks (two parks in particular) that have some really world class coasters. Most of which are braked to death.

As far as the trims being used to save maintenance, that is exactly what they are using them for, and there is not a reason for it. They knew the cost of maintaining a wooden coaster when they bought the park. What they need is a good maintenance crew. We wouldn't want maintenance to have to maintain something, now would we? And yes, they have been increasing the braking more and more over the last few seasons, and by my estimation, there is no way that Beast approaches 70MPH, even late in the day with a full train. No, I can't prove it with hard numbers, but only my own personal experience.

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Somewhere in this thread someone said that you cannot adjust trim brakes - they are either there and on or you physically remove them. I'm not trying to be a stinker (or anyone else of that "ilk") but on Gemini at CP, they have a way of shutting off the trim brake a it rounds the third turn. Sometimes, when there are a lot of empty seats on the train, if that trim is "on" the train will stop.

I have also been on Mean Streak when some of the trims were not "on" - once again, a very empty train. This is because of other empty trains that were sent out before were stopping on the trims.

Now, all of this may have to do with weight - weight needed for the train to complete its course - but these particular coasters have the ability to have - at least in one place on the curcuit - the trims turned off.

As for those questioning "all things Holiday World" - possibly an answer.....they're in a different state and each state has different regulations regarding amusement ride saftey and inspections. This just might be why things there seem different than our beloved Ohio parks. But I still have to question why I can fit on every ride at King's Island and I am turned away from so many at Cedar Point because of shorter seatbelts - even though the ride manufactuers are of the same "ilk" and so on (and so on, and Scooby Dooby Doo). I just wanna be an everyday people!

Hank, as far as removing the trim brakes to adjust them, we were referring to the magnetic trim brakes on Beast, I believe Gemini at CP uses a pneumatic pinch brake.

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The Beast Rider: Of that ilk means of a kind or sort, or alike, in this case of the same opinion. And on the issue of trim brakes on coasters, you are very much of the same opinion as dare-to-fly, so you are of that ilk. No slam intended, just a fact.

Cedar Fair HAS excellent maintenance crews, they just don't want to budget them any more than they must. When the company looked to purchase the Paramount Parks, they looked for places where they could save money compared to how Paramount did business. Theming, licensing, maintenance costs...all surely came into their equation. As did places they could raise more revenue, like food pricing, doing away with Bring A Friend Free days, etc.

The fact of the matter is, the corporate bigwigs, and not us, will decide both food pricing and trimming of coaster issues...and that's the way it is, this the 18 day of June, 2008, nearing two complete years of Cedar Fair ownership of the Paramount Parks, and on the day after the rides auction at Geauga Lake. No company will do everything the way all of us would wish...in fact, that wouldn't even be possible.

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The fact of the matter is, the corporate bigwigs, and not us, will decide both food pricing and trimming of coaster issues...and that's the way it is, this the 18 day of June, 2008, nearing two complete years of Cedar Fair ownership of the Paramount Parks, and on the day after the rides auction at Geauga Lake. No company will do everything the way all of us would wish...in fact, that wouldn't even be possible.

You are very much correct on that one, it is their park and they can do with it as they please. However, it doesn't stop us from complaining about it. Maybe in some small way they will listen. Rome wasn't built in a day, and trim brakes won't be removed in a day, either. You have to fight for what you believe in, or no one else will.

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Just got a ride on SoB.....no MCBR and there was actually some airtime!

When, and HOW were you so friekin' lucky. Any time I ride it, it seems that they slam the brakes on to almost a crawl. Or even stop it in the case of Tuesday, though I'm not implying that one time was intended. Plus, that's not quite possible, because there is a small magnetic brake up there that undoubtedly did a little damage, but I'd take what I could get. I'd love to know how you got to skip the trim. YLB.

Not that I'm defending Cedar Point, and on that point I must be clear, but to whoever brought up the issue of Mean Streak turning back some of the trims. Those also are not magnetic.

And to another post, there could not have been a magnetic brake on Maverick last season or I would have noticed that much braking. Unless of course it was much, MUCH less of a brake. I'm not talking about the brake right before the second launch. There is a magnetic brake just out of the tunnel and around the corner on the way up the hill that puts a great big yank on the train on its way past. There was no yank there last season, and the second part of the ride was much faster. And....wouldn't it be easier to just dial the launch down than stick a trim immediately following the launch?

As to Mantis, I must have been on it during the portion of the season that they turned off the trim, as I certainly would have noticed that, being of the "Forums Against Ridiculous Trims" or "FART" ilk! :)

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Just got a ride on SoB.....no MCBR and there was actually some airtime!

When, and HOW were you so friekin' lucky. Any time I ride it, it seems that they slam the brakes on to almost a crawl. Or even stop it in the case of Tuesday, though I'm not implying that one time was intended. Plus, that's not quite possible, because there is a small magnetic brake up there that undoubtedly did a little damage, but I'd take what I could get. I'd love to know how you got to skip the trim. YLB.

Not that I'm defending Cedar Point, and on that point I must be clear, but to whoever brought up the issue of Mean Streak turning back some of the trims. Those also are not magnetic.

And to another post, there could not have been a magnetic brake on Maverick last season or I would have noticed that much braking. Unless of course it was much, MUCH less of a brake. I'm not talking about the brake right before the second launch. There is a magnetic brake just out of the tunnel and around the corner on the way up the hill that puts a great big yank on the train on its way past. There was no yank there last season, and the second part of the ride was much faster. And....wouldn't it be easier to just dial the launch down than stick a trim immediately following the launch?

As to Mantis, I must have been on it during the portion of the season that they turned off the trim, as I certainly would have noticed that, being of the "Forums Against Ridiculous Trims" or "FART" ilk! :)

I'm sorry to tell you, but the brake right after the launch on Maverick has always been there. Now, I have heard that it's doesn't appear to be braking as hard as it did last year, but I assure you, it's always been there. I saw many threads over at Pointbuzz last season where people were complaining that it was a waste to have a 70mph launch followed by a brake.

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Just got a ride on SoB.....no MCBR and there was actually some airtime!

When, and HOW were you so friekin' lucky. Any time I ride it, it seems that they slam the brakes on to almost a crawl. Or even stop it in the case of Tuesday, though I'm not implying that one time was intended. Plus, that's not quite possible, because there is a small magnetic brake up there that undoubtedly did a little damage, but I'd take what I could get. I'd love to know how you got to skip the trim. YLB.

Not that I'm defending Cedar Point, and on that point I must be clear, but to whoever brought up the issue of Mean Streak turning back some of the trims. Those also are not magnetic.

And to another post, there could not have been a magnetic brake on Maverick last season or I would have noticed that much braking. Unless of course it was much, MUCH less of a brake. I'm not talking about the brake right before the second launch. There is a magnetic brake just out of the tunnel and around the corner on the way up the hill that puts a great big yank on the train on its way past. There was no yank there last season, and the second part of the ride was much faster. And....wouldn't it be easier to just dial the launch down than stick a trim immediately following the launch?

As to Mantis, I must have been on it during the portion of the season that they turned off the trim, as I certainly would have noticed that, being of the "Forums Against Ridiculous Trims" or "FART" ilk! :)

I'm sorry to tell you, but the brake right after the launch on Maverick has always been there. Now, I have heard that it's doesn't appear to be braking as hard as it did last year, but I assure you, it's always been there. I saw many threads over at Pointbuzz last season where people were complaining that it was a waste to have a 70mph launch followed by a brake.

I'm sorry to tell you, it was not there when it opened. It may have been added shortly after, but it was not there at ride open. Not only is it a waste, it is ridiculous.

As for the SOB midcourse, dare-to-fly - remember what we saw from Eiffel Tower? Maybe there was more going on than meets the eye.

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They were there when the ride opened to the public for the first time. They may not have been there when it was scheduled to open (before the heartline roll was removed), but I can assure you they were there when the first public rides took place.

And yes, they are almost unnoticeable this year; hence, the latter portion of the ride is a bit more intense than last year.

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There are all kinds of medical tests that are performed on patients. The end results are what the doctors are looking for, however - the methods used to accomplish that goal are sometimes quite rough on the person having the test. Things like drinking barium (yuk!) for an upper GI and that other god-awful tasting liquid for a lower GI get the job done, but couldn't they come up with a better procedure preparation for the patient?

The same goes for trim brakes. While these new magnetic brakes get tht job done, they're rough on the riders and take away from what could be a pleasant ride experience. The old skid brakes didn't have that jerk-i-ness to them and the pneumatic brakes could be turned on and off as needed. So maybe some further development of the new braking systems needs to be done - and I'm sure it eventually will be. People like us - or of the same "ilk" (gotta abuse that word) - complaining about it should cause the "break makers" to "stop" and take notice!

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Lordy lordy what a discussion. Just going to throw my opinion in here as well cause I disagree with the ones who say other then the type of brakes used The Beast is still the same, that is just total b.s. Now i only get to go up to the park every few years, but i have been going there for over 20 years, so I have seen the changes to this once remarkable coaster. This coaster was the best when it really was The Beast, not this neutered version that they have now. There was no slowing down before, it was balls to the walls, and people loved it, line would be 2 hrs long just to get on it, there would be good airtime on the hills, not be slowed down on a hill right over the initial drop, oh yeah, thats thrilling, get going good just to be thrown forward from a dumba** brake in the worst location ever. A pleasurable ride should have nice and gradual movements, like the old skids offered, not this abrupt what the hell action you get nowadays. The coaster should live up to its name. Now i understand the maintenance end of it, which is why i was told they do the trims so excessively, but that excuse is lame, it costs money to make money, way of life, they could invest into this monster to let it be the coaster it once was, we have the technology..lol...not even going to touch on SOB, but FoF, oh yeah, that was once a great coaster as well and I still want to ride it, but back in the day when they didnt use the mcb, that coaster was flat out awesome. The Beast, I used to make a point to get on it as much as possible, but now, its nothing but another ride, which is really sad.

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But, the skid brakes failed, hence the change. The magnetic brakes in the shed stop you abruptly whereas the skids were, for lack of better word, eventual. You'll notice how you pretty much fly through the shed right up until the end. The skid brakes were there on the first hill as well for many years, although I don't know if from the beginning.

So, since I have been riding The Beast since the early 80's, I'm going to have to politely disagree with your view that The Beast has been neutered. It is still basically the same ride. No bs.

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But, the skid brakes failed, hence the change. The magnetic brakes in the shed stop you abruptly whereas the skids were, for lack of better word, eventual. You'll notice how you pretty much fly through the shed right up until the end. The skid brakes were there on the first hill as well for many years, although I don't know if from the beginning.

So, since I have been riding The Beast since the early 80's, I'm going to have to politely disagree with your view that The Beast has been neutered. It is still basically the same ride. No bs.

The magnetic brakes are the problem. There is no reason for such braking in the first place. I agree with the poster above that The Beast has been neutered, and you don't have to look back as far as the beginning. Even when Paramount replaced the skids with magnetic, the braking in the brake shed was no where near as strong as it is now. Even the brakes on the first drop and the second hill have been added to. The Beast could be a world class coaster, if it would be allowed to live.

By the way, your link above does not work.

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Here is the second link Maverick Brakes again.

About The Beast...I said that I politely disagree. You haven't proven anything and neither have I. We just both have different opinions. The magnetic brakes are not the problem. Would you rather them leave the old skid brakes and risk another collision? The braking was there before and it's there now. Show me pics of where the original hill didn't have any brakes. Not saying that's not right, which I conceded to already. I just can't remember. Like I said, the braking in the shed only seems different because the skid brakes slowed you down gradually whereas the magnetic is all at once.

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Thank you. I'll have to download new software to view the videos. It should prove interesting.

Would you rather them leave the old skid brakes and risk another collision?

Actually, yes. Then not only would the braking be smooth and not nearly as ride killingly oppressive as it is now, we could still have trimless rides. If they did that every so often, then maybe us "ilk" would not complain so much about the brakes. Also, as an added bonus, we wouldn't have to get whiplash about four times as the train enters the station.

The braking was there before and it's there now. Show me pics of where the original hill didn't have any brakes.

I'll have to look that up. I do not know of any photographic evidence of the first drop not having brakes, as I'm pretty sure they were there from the start. I do, however, know of and have seen a video of the original testing of The Beast in which you can clearly see NO brakes at all going into the helix.

Like I said, the braking in the shed only seems different because the skid brakes slowed you down gradually whereas the magnetic is all at once.

The problem with the magnetic brakes is the fact that they are over-doing them. They could make the magnetic brakes just as smooth as the skids were. Up until a couple of years ago even, the train did not half stop in the brake shed. There is no doubt in my mind that they are using more brakes now than ever before.

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Beast Rider, please give up. This is an extremely pointless arguement, it's not like your constant ranting is going to change the fact that the trims are there, and, although it may shock you, they are for a reason.

Without the trims after Mavericks launch, not only would it take away another valuable block, but the track proceeding the trims would be very painful indeed. You constantly argue and complian about the trims on many various rides, but did it ever occur to you that maybe there is a reason, other than to give babies like you something to b*ch about? do you have any Idea how hard or expensive it is to install a trim? Do you honestly think they would go through the trouble of installing a trim if it didn't make the ride better or more enjoyable in a way?

So please, pardon my French but shut up. You are completely unaware of the reasons behind the trims yet you think you have the right to complain about them because you think that they kill the ride.

BTW, the Trims on Maverick have been there since opening.

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Well, it's obvious that you can't leave the skid brakes on after having an accident. It's a good thing you don't work for their legal department either. If they had left the skid brakes and there was already an accident, and another one happens, then you just opened yourself up to being sued and definitely losing considering the coasters' history. No way KI could defend themselves in court when a previous accident had ocurred and they did nothing to correct the situation.

There has always been brakes going into the helix. Find the vid and prove me wrong.

I'd also like to see proof of where they could "make" the magnetic brakes act in the same way as the skids did. Magnetic brakes only kill the ride experience in your opinion. I have heard many arguements both ways, so, that point you can never settle.

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Beast Rider, please give up. This is an extremely pointless arguement, it's not like your constant ranting is going to change the fact that the trims are there, and, although it may shock you, they are for a reason.

Without the trims after Mavericks launch, not only would it take away another valuable block, but the track proceeding the trims would be very painful indeed. You constantly argue and complian about the trims on many various rides, but did it ever occur to you that maybe there is a reason, other than to give babies like you something to b*ch about? do you have any Idea how hard or expensive it is to install a trim? Do you honestly think they would go through the trouble of installing a trim if it didn't make the ride better or more enjoyable in a way?

So please, pardon my French but shut up. You are completely unaware of the reasons behind the trims yet you think you have the right to complain about them because you think that they kill the ride.

BTW, the Trims on Maverick have been there since opening.

No, I don't believe I will. The trims are there so the park can save money. Trims do not make the ride more enjoyable. I have the same right to complain about them as you do. So to quote yourself, you shut up.

KIBeast, I have a link to the video on my other computer. I'll upload it as soon as I get there. I know why they took the skids off. Skid brakes are a dying breed, and it is understandable why.

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My ride was last night in the front row around 9:30PM! It was bitter sweet...the no MCBR was awesome, but it felt rougher at the bottom of the drop and first helix. Other than that...it was great!

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