Jasper Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I was in my Carpentry class yesterday and a thought came into my mind when we discussed Centrifugal force. Would you need restraints on The Vortex through the entire ride, i mean like if you did not have them would you fall out anywhere on the ride? I came to the conclusion that you would only need them going down the first hill as well as going over the second hill, and through the corkscrews. Anyone got an opinion on this. This is what happened when a KI Addict gets bored in class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealNightmare Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 You would also need them when hitting the final brake run and the MCBR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 ^True but in an instance you wouldn't necessarily fall out of the car you could brace yourself on something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealNightmare Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I wouldn't want to try and brace myself for the final brake run. It would be like slamming on the breaks in a car at 30mph and not wearing a seat belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I wouldn't consider the final brake run on Vortex to be that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealNightmare Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I still wouldn't want to have to brace myself for it. It sounds painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Yes it would be painful but i am referring to the forces on the ride actually keeping you in your seat. Does anyone think there are any coasters at KI that you wouldnt fall out of if you had no restraint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomkatt7 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Yes it would be painful but i am referring to the forces on the ride actually keeping you in your seat. Does anyone think there are any coasters at KI that you wouldnt fall out of if you had no restraint. I remember riding The Racer when it just had a bench seat, and a fold down restraint.....reminds me of the little bar you get to hold on to when you ride the scrambler. No seat belts, or pinch you lap into submission bar. It was a lot more fun then, seemed way more out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Yeah the good ole buzz bar days. Sad i wasn't around for them. I would have loved to have ridden The Beast with them on. Could you imagine SOB with no restraints. Talking about one wild ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sora_chan Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Yeah the good ole buzz bar days. Sad i wasn't around for them. I would have loved to have ridden The Beast with them on. Could you imagine SOB with no restraints. Talking about one wild ride. Oh no! That would suck. You would totally die. I love SoB for the monster it is, but even after they took out the loop I noticed that it banged me up way worse than usual. I'll be surprised if I ever ride it again. Seems much tougher now that is has some age. And without the loop it's no where near it's former glory. Though I did ride it last year to try without the loop. Sad really. But without restraints? I would rather play Russian roulette, at least you die quickly like that. lol = D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 The restraints on Vortex exist for the same reason you wear a seatbelt in a car. To protect you in case there's an accident. You could ride Vortex without any restraint at all and not fall out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Butcher Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 The restraints on Vortex exist for the same reason you wear a seatbelt in a car. To protect you in case there's an accident. You could ride Vortex without any restraint at all and not fall out! Really? Please explain what you would do in the corkscrew in the front rows? Or even in the back rows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 The restraints on Vortex exist for the same reason you wear a seatbelt in a car. To protect you in case there's an accident. You could ride Vortex without any restraint at all and not fall out! Really? Please explain what you would do in the corkscrew in the front rows? Or even in the back rows? Feel like you are going to fall out but you wouldn't.... Have you ever noticed that sometimes there are coins that have fallen out of peoples' pockets on the floor of The Vortex trains? They are not restrained and they do not fall out....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Butcher Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 The restraints on Vortex exist for the same reason you wear a seatbelt in a car. To protect you in case there's an accident. You could ride Vortex without any restraint at all and not fall out! Really? Please explain what you would do in the corkscrew in the front rows? Or even in the back rows? Feel like you are going to fall out but you wouldn't.... Have you ever noticed that sometimes there are coins that have fallen out of peoples' pockets on the floor of The Vortex trains? They are not restrained and they do not fall out....... Actually those coins typically get caught on something which keeps them from falling out, or they work out of your pocket sideways (They can not just drop) and sit on peoples shirts, and when they get up in the station the coins fall to the floor. Many times coins do fall out, the few that stay in the cars are an anomaly, especially if they fell out before the corkscrew. They just get caught on something, the same way we get caught on the restraint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 The restraints on Vortex exist for the same reason you wear a seatbelt in a car. To protect you in case there's an accident. You could ride Vortex without any restraint at all and not fall out! Really? Please explain what you would do in the corkscrew in the front rows? Or even in the back rows? Feel like you are going to fall out but you wouldn't.... Have you ever noticed that sometimes there are coins that have fallen out of peoples' pockets on the floor of The Vortex trains? They are not restrained and they do not fall out....... Actually those coins typically get caught on something which keeps them from falling out, or they work out of your pocket sideways (They can not just drop) and sit on peoples shirts, and when they get up in the station the coins fall to the floor. Many times coins do fall out, the few that stay in the cars are an anomaly, especially if they fell out before the corkscrew. They just get caught on something, the same way we get caught on the restraint! We do not get "caught" on the restraint.... if we did with enough force to eject us fron the ride, it would leave bruises.... The forces make us touch the restraints so that it creates the illusion of danger when. in reality, based upon the laws of physics, we are completely safe..... The engineers who design costers are good like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yes, the restraints are there to keep you securely in the car. Especially through the corkscrew where the forces are not necessarily directly into the seat, but also sideways. So I assume you believe that the restraints on The Crypt do not catch us either? I certainly never get bruises from the restraints on The Crypt. (Although, the same can not be said from the original Son of Beast trains when I rode it nine times in two hours one night during its inaugural season!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Butcher Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 That force that pushes you into the restraint would push you further without the restraint. If you push into the restraint any, there is the ability to push out further were the restraint not there. I do not know the exact time pushing out on the restraint, but it would be enough I am fairly certain to allow one to not remain in seated position if there was no restraint. You may be right, I have not heard the "you won't fall out" idea from anyone who has stated that they design the things or are in charge of certifying them. So please, do not take my statements to be insulting, I simply have not heard (or remember) your explanation from another person, and must compare it to what I have heard over the years. Does anyone here have any light on this idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchdown62 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Possible way to find out. Hold a coin in the palm of your hand, parallel to the ground. Don't close your hand around the coin. Leave it like this for the whole ride. If the coin doesn't fall out of your hand, then there's a real good chance you wouldn't fall out without the restraints. I don't see this working through the corkscrew. The train goes too slow for C-force to be greater than gravity and keep you in the seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rcfreak339 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 How about on The Beast or Flightdeck or Adventure Express? I think you would stay nice and safe inside your seat without a seatbelt on those.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealNightmare Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I don't know about Flightdeck you hit the final brakes pretty hard at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Possible way to find out. Hold a coin in the palm of your hand, parallel to the ground. Don't close your hand around the coin. Leave it like this for the whole ride. If the coin doesn't fall out of your hand, then there's a real good chance you wouldn't fall out without the restraints. I don't see this working through the corkscrew. The train goes too slow for C-force to be greater than gravity and keep you in the seat. DO NOT DO THIS. Loose articles are not permitted on the rides. To do this would be a violation of Ohio law and could even see you get prosecuted. And, many people have been injured by flying coins. Not to mention that doing so in front of other people encourages at least some of those other people to do other, perhaps far worse, unsafe things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 That force that pushes you into the restraint would push you further without the restraint. If you push into the restraint any, there is the ability to push out further were the restraint not there. I do not know the exact time pushing out on the restraint, but it would be enough I am fairly certain to allow one to not remain in seated position if there was no restraint. You may be right, I have not heard the "you won't fall out" idea from anyone who has stated that they design the things or are in charge of certifying them. So please, do not take my statements to be insulting, I simply have not heard (or remember) your explanation from another person, and must compare it to what I have heard over the years. Does anyone here have any light on this idea? I don't think you are insulting at all. And what you are saying is not wrong. But coasters are designed so that they do not create forces that can eject a person from the ride, assuming the person meets the height requirements and is seated properly, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 They are these days. Once upon a time, such was not the case. Ride the Coney Island Cyclone in Brooklyn and tell me that. There was a time high negative g's were allowed. These days, not so much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Jeff Gramke can agree with a smile on his face! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterKrazy Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 But coasters are designed so that they do not create forces that can eject a person from the ride, assuming the person meets the height requirements and is seated properly, of course. I think El Toro at Six Flags Great Adventure would argue otherwise. The way that coaster literally screams over the first couple of hills, it sounds like the trains won't stay on the track, not to mention the riders. On a more serious note, the accident at Holiday World a few years back also shows that roller coasters are designed in such a way that, if it were not for the restraints, a rider could easily be ejected from the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Does the Holiday World incident REALLY show that? Was it ever established exactly how the rider exited the train? Do we know that she wasn't, for example, assisted in her exit? Quite frankly, that entire incident had murky written all over it. Tragic, yes. Totally explainable? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterKrazy Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Are you implying that she may have been murdered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I'm not implying anything. I'm merely stating the fact that it was never firmly established how this happened. The sad reality is that restraints must nowadays be designed not just to cope with ride forces, but also with riders who may wish to exit or tempt fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOB_TOM Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Actually, when SOB had its loop, you did NOT need a restraint, and I have proof. In 2002, I was a ride op on SOB, and one of the maintenance guys who just finished his morning check, left his tools in one of the seats and did not realize it until after the train was dispatched (by maintenance.) When it came back, the tools did not move an inch. When I enquired about this, he informed me that the forces were high enough to keep you in the seat, regardless of a restraint. So yes, there is one coaster that (used to) invert that you did not need a restraint on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster_junky Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 How about on The Beast or Flightdeck or Adventure Express? I think you would stay nice and safe inside your seat without a seatbelt on those.... i dought that on The Beast expecially when you hit the trim breaks after the first drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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