The Interpreter Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Just as there can be no buyout of Cedar Fair without a 2/3 vote by the units' holders, there can be no stadium on City of Santa Clara property without a vote by the city's citizens. In fact, so far, it appears there may be two such city votes out there, with possible conflicting results! ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Interpreter's comment about the "9'ers" is what I was referring to. The Private Equity Group is entering into this as a profitable venture. My guess is that they will likely buy it whole, shore up some properties, shed a few, and make the remaining look real attractive to be sold off piece at a time. I almost wouldn't be surprised to see KI purchased in the end as a stand alone park by a Cincinnati entity. If this goes through i would expect a few dramatic changes to get the park in showroom condition.... if you like SOB- I wouldn't get attached to it- they will likely have less tolerance for it than Paramount or CF combined. With CF's sole ownership I would expect SOB to be SBNO for a bit (I'm willing to bet it's given its last ride... even if it does show up on the 2010 map). Remember, The Bat stood for two years after closing before being torn down. My guess is it will stand unti they have a plan for the use of the land.... which may include a coaster brought in from a demised property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RingMaster Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Of the amusement parks Cedar Fair owns (including the five former Paramount Parks), the ones crossed out are the ones I see Apollo axing from the lineup: - Valleyfair - Worlds of Fun - Michigan's Adventure - Dorney Park - Gilroy Gardens - Knott's Berry Farm - Cedar Point - California's Great America - Carowinds - Kings Dominion - Canada's Wonderland - Kings Island ...I'm kinda torn on the idea of the whole chain of parks being completely split from each other, as then the perk of going to other parks in the chain for free (albeit with a hefty $160 price tag for a platinum pass) will be gone with the wind. However, considering each park would be owned individually, investments toward new attractions and general upkeep would skyrocket (so to speak) since they won't have to worry about speading their money out amongst multiple properties (how Paramount managed to give nearly every one of their parks a new attraction every season still befuddles me to this day). Still, there's even the threat of a few parks being shut down like Geauga Lake (Michigan's Adventure and Valleyfair look like possible candidates), which I'm not particularly thrilled about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback96 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Gilroy Gardens is not owned by CF. It's kind of like CGA, but the rides are not owned by CF, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RingMaster Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 I kinda figured that, but considering Gilroy Gardens is listed on the Cedar Fair website, I just thought I'd add it onto the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick2007 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Cedar Fair LP finds itself surrounded by attorneys smelling blood in the water over its sale to private-equity firm Apollo Global Management LLC. At least five lawsuits had been filed in Erie County Common Pleas Court by yesterday by attorneys representing Cedar Fair unit holders across the country who allege the amusement park firm undervalued its worth in its sale last week to Apollo. Other lawsuits are expected. Link Article from the Toledo Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 That link both does not work and contains information that wasn't even up to date when the Blade published it on December 24 (and Screamscape referred to it today). See post 167 and its link here: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20462&view=findpost&p=354962 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 And this article contains, among other things, the erroneous information that Apollo owns Sirius Satellite Radio (it does not...Sirius XM Radio Inc.--there now is no company called Sirius Satellite Radio--is publicly traded): http://www.coaster-n...tem&newsid=1020 Quote for SIRI--Sirius XM Radio Inc.: http://www.google.com/finance?client=news&q=siri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 No matter what happens, I hope that the park continues to improve as it has over the past couple years. It was starting to remind me of KI pre-Paramount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidd33 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I too have liked the direction the park seems to be heading these past few years. It is sad that it had to come to this but at the same time it probably the best situation for the park we love and want to see grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 i'm not trying to start a rumor that Apollo would close parks.... that is my opinion that they will take that route once in control. I don't think that Kings Island would be on any chopping block of any sort under that scenario- as it has always been a top performer in whatever portfolio it was in. And if there are parks closing- the remnants would stand to gain coasters and flats from the demised properties. Although, if that does happen, brace yourself for removal of unprofitable or "costly" elements contained within the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RingMaster Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 (Dumb) Question: Is it feasible to relocate wooden coasters from one spot to another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 (Dumb) Question: Is it feasible to relocate wooden coasters from one spot to another? I would say relocating a good coaster would be feasible. But if the coaster is just so-so, then no, it would not be. The Phoenix at Knobels used to be at Playland Park in San Antonio, TX. It supposedly had a $1.5 million price tag for the whole move back in 1985. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Even small wooden coasters have been successfully relocated, including the Starliner from Miracle Strip in Florida which went to Cypress Gardens and now the one from Kiddieland in Chicago is headed to Six Flags Great America. The other Chicago wooden kiddie coaster (which used to be at Hillcrest) went to Wisconsin to Little Amerricka, which is the third location for that wooden coaster (it was first at Kiddietown, not to be confused with Kiddieland). Then, of course there are the larger wonders like the Comet at Crystal Beach in Canada, which was relocated to The Great Escape in New York...Boardwalk & Baseball's Florida Hurricane which became Arkansas Twister at Magic Springs in Arkansas... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Knott Family Not Excited About Cedar Fair Sale: This article deserves a read, but ends like this: ...The Knotts like Cedar Fair."We think very highly of Cedar Fair," he said. "We enjoyed the relationship that we have had with them. They run parks very similar to us. We had a pretty happy marriage with them." Knott said he didn't agree, however, with all of the debt Cedar Fair took on in 2006 to acquire the former Paramount theme parks. "I think this was the downfall of Cedar Fair," he said, noting that the Apollo deal puts the Knott family in an awkward position. "I really don't like the idea of selling to another group." http://www.sanduskyr...ont/1830160.txt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoeter Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Check this out....not sure if this has already been posted. http://www.journal-news.com/news/hamilton-news/6-lawsuits-trying-to-stop-sale-of-kings-island-parent-company-470156.html?cxtype=rss_local-news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 See also: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/12/30/Investors-attempt-to-block-Cedar-Fair-sale/UPI-70261262210968/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidd33 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 ""This is a strong company and even given the economy, it looks to be very promising," said attorney Jack Landskroner, who is representing investors in a class action suit." I know lawyers have to do and say whats best for their clients interests...but really??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I know lawyers have to do and say whats best for their clients interests...but really??? He probably charged a billable hour to his clients to provide that quote ""This is a strong company and even given the economy, it looks to be very promising," said attorney Jack Landskroner, who is representing investors in a class action suit." Last time I checked, FUN was publicly traded. Mr. Landskroner may not fully grasp the concept of this, but what it means is that the market sets the price of a unit based upon what people are willing to pay for it. And they were willing to pay about $9 (I think) prior to the announcement and will be getting $11.50 now. Just because he and his clients may believe it is worth more doesn't make it so. Also in the journal news article are the following items: quoted: The deal could have been scotched by a vote of two-thirds of the unit holders, but Landskroner said that wasn't a sure thing because not all of the investors understand this is a bad deal for them. Isn't it great that this lawyer and his clients are so much smarter than the other unit holders? I mean, why let the process work when you can file a lawsuit? quoted: The economy is starting to turn around and Landskroner said if the Cedar Fair waits a bit, the investors might get a better return. Or, whether the economy turns around or not, the investors might also get nothing in return based upon a potential bankruptcy filing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Three More Lawsuits Filed Against Cedar Fair [sandusky Register headline, total of seven...they had previously not reported some the Lorain paper already had as cited above. The article, which deserves a full reading, ends like this:] ...Josh Kosman, author of a new book on private equity firms called "The Buyout of America," said most shareholder suits are settled for a relatively small amount of money and the deals go through.Kosman's book says there is evidence that in general, private equity companies tend to pay less when acquiring companies than publicly-traded companies do. A private equity expert in Washington, D.C., said the Cedar Fair lawsuits are similar to other lawsuits filed by shareholders who believe management is leaving money on the table. "The problem is, absent a better offer, who is to say?" he said. Under the agreement signed by Cedar Fair and Apollo, the amusement park company has time to listen to other offers. That "go-shop" period ends Jan. 26. http://www.sanduskyr...ont/1832341.txt The Kosman indirect quote appears not to take into account the unusual requirement at FUN that 2/3 of the units' holders vote in favor of the deal. The lawsuits do not seem to recognize, for whatever reason, that absent this deal, FUN may or may not be a going concern, given its debt and more particularly, its debt covenants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback96 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Knotts are not happy about the sale: http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2009/12/30/front/1830160.txt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Knotts are not happy about the sale: http://www.sanduskyr...ont/1830160.txt Post 195, two days ago: http://www.KICentral...ndpost&p=355550 Probably a good place to add that the Knotts have a relatively large number of units, and may indeed vote against the sale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback96 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 I didn't even notice that post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Private Equity Generates Big Returns, Big Controversy: ...In some cases, the general partners have turned into billionaires, as seen with KKR's Henry Kravis and George Roberts; Blackstone's Stephen Schwarzman; TPG's David Bonderman and James Coulter; Apollo Management's Leon Black; and the Carlyle Group's Daniel D'Aniello, David Rubenstein and William Conway.......So to generate strong returns, private-equity firms need to build up their portfolio companies. This is done by allocating hefty equity stakes to key managers, imposing comprehensive monitoring and finding ways to cut costs. Moreover, the high levels of debt may put pressure on management to perform better. The upshot is usually higher cash flows and stronger operational performance. But doesn't this mean more layoffs? It's true.... http://www.dailyfina...versy/19296974/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Ugh, ugh! Blackstone! Right before Christmas, they moved our billing department to India-and their English is even worse than the IT department. What they say is scripted. We are being directed to deal with these people before moving the call "onshore". Our delivery tracking system was also "enhanced" and now it takes a full 3 minutes to even load. Instead of helping people get home on their equipment, my whole day is now spent jumping from the US to India and major frustration. I still dont see how this way of doing business is desirable. It's no longer about a good solid American work ethic, its about the big guys turning a quick profit. Time to cut my losses and get the hell out. I sure hope KI doesn't turn out like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBEW_Sparky Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Which is the precise reason I am starting my own Electrical Company this year. I want to be in control of my own destiny, NOT be looking over my shoulder every day in the fear of a layoff because an Armani wearing multi-millionaire is not making enough profit to satsify his or her fancy. Back OT, I truly dont want to sound Heartless, but I will not be able to contain my hysterical laughter when the Knotts family, and any of the other cretins filing suit against GURANTEED money lose every single cent they have invested in CF when it goes Chap 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 And if the deal DOES go through, I'd give anything to know Dick Kinzel's real reaction when he is told he can either do exactly as he is told (probably while pretending it was his idea) or he can find the door (complete with golden parachute, no doubt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBEW_Sparky Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 HAHAHA, as would I... though that is as likely as getting the whole truth from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Which is the precise reason I am starting my own Electrical Company this year. I want to be in control of my own destiny, NOT be looking over my shoulder every day in the fear of a layoff because an Armani wearing multi-millionaire is not making enough profit to satsify his or her fancy. Back OT, I truly dont want to sound Heartless, but I will not be able to contain my hysterical laughter when the Knotts family, and any of the other cretins filing suit against GURANTEED money lose every single cent they have invested in CF when it goes Chap 11. No apologies necessary-its just the way of the world now-and I am adjusting my life accordingly. If I had a business plan and an idea that is needed, I would do it. At this juncture, I am looking toward retirement now-I no longer want to set the world on fire. I do know that my current field is a complete mess, and Im sick of dealing with it. Sad as this sounds, I want to get laid off, but its not happening When our company was bought by Blackstone, our ceo stood down the same day-im sure his severance was pretty enticing. Makes me sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerRider Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 This is why I need to go into dermitalogy or Dentistry, there is a huge demand for both, and they are good family owned jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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