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2011 what should KI get

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Guest Millennium

If DB is one of a kind, then what are Behemoth, Intimidator, Apollo, Nitro, Goliath, etc? Lol

And B&M hasn't made an invert model for several years, it doesn't seem likely we would get one. I would love one too though.

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Well yeah they are similar but my understand they are all slightly different. Diamondback, for instance, varies with its "spashdown ending". Also the Inverted model isn't dead, they actually built one as recent as 2007 and according to RCDB, they are officially "in production". I doubt B&M would refuse to build one for Cedar Fair, I think more than anything why you don't see alot of new ones because the B&M hyper-coaster models are so popular and that's what they are building. I'm sure the recession doesn't help either, I imagine B&M probably doesn't get as much orders in general in this economy!

I truly believe the B&M invert is one of the best coaster models ever made. THeir are trend coasters like standup coasters and flying coasters, then theirs inovative breakthrough coasters, and I believe the Invert is truly that.

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This is just me but I would I would much rather have them build an Intamin at KI. An Intamin is KI needs a lot. Not that I would hate to see a B&M invert be installed, I'd just rather have them build an LSM Intamin of some sort. Just my opinion...

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If DB is one of a kind, then what are Behemoth, Intimidator, Apollo, Nitro, Goliath, etc? Lol!

DB is one of a kind.

What other coaster has it's exact layout & elements?

LOL!

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With the exception of 2009 and 2005 there has been an Inverted Coaster built by B&M every year since the first. It's still their most popular model. I wouldn't be shocked if King's Island's next coaster is a B&M, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it in Flight Deck's/Son of Beast's current location.

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Guest Millennium

If DB is one of a kind, then what are Behemoth, Intimidator, Apollo, Nitro, Goliath, etc? Lol!

DB is one of a kind.

What other coaster has it's exact layout & elements?

LOL!

When I read one of a kind, I assumed he meant "no other ride like it". That is what popped in my head.

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With the exception of 2009 and 2005 there has been an Inverted Coaster built by B&M every year since the first. It's still their most popular model. I wouldn't be shocked if King's Island's next coaster is a B&M, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it in Flight Deck's/Son of Beast's current location.

Careful your breaking the rule. Don't talk smack about Flight Deck lol. ITs everyone's favorite lamer-coaster so you'll get people riled up. Oh and on that note I rode Iron Dragon at Cedar Point so I can OFFICIALLY say the Suspended coaster sucks now that I've rode 2!

LOL I personally don't care. But I do see Son of Beast being the next demolished coaster no doubt about it. I was thinking obviously a B&M invert wouldn't take up the space that Son of Beast does so they could use a lot of that space to expand X-base, and ultimatley make X-base the home of the new B&M invert. Also a screaming Swing would be a nice edition too.

Of course at this point I'd think we'd see some track showing up or something if we were getting anything for '11, so Its safe to say the next edition will not arrive till at least 2012.

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Guest Millennium

With the exception of 2009 and 2005 there has been an Inverted Coaster built by B&M every year since the first. It's still their most popular model. I wouldn't be shocked if King's Island's next coaster is a B&M, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it in Flight Deck's/Son of Beast's current location.

Careful your breaking the rule. Don't talk smack about Flight Deck lol. ITs everyone's favorite lamer-coaster so you'll get people riled up. Oh and on that note I rode Iron Dragon at Cedar Point so I can OFFICIALLY say the Suspended coaster sucks now that I've rode 2!

LOL I personally don't care. But I do see Son of Beast being the next demolished coaster no doubt about it. I was thinking obviously a B&M invert wouldn't take up the space that Son of Beast does so they could use a lot of that space to expand X-base, and ultimatley make X-base the home of the new B&M invert. Also a screaming Swing would be a nice edition too.

Of course at this point I'd think we'd see some track showing up or something if we were getting anything for '11, so Its safe to say the next edition will not arrive till at least 2012.

I'm not even going to start with this post. :rolleyes:

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With the exception of 2009 and 2005 there has been an Inverted Coaster built by B&M every year since the first. It's still their most popular model. I wouldn't be shocked if King's Island's next coaster is a B&M, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it in Flight Deck's/Son of Beast's current location.

Careful your breaking the rule. Don't talk smack about Flight Deck lol. ITs everyone's favorite lamer-coaster so you'll get people riled up. Oh and on that note I rode Iron Dragon at Cedar Point so I can OFFICIALLY say the Suspended coaster sucks now that I've rode 2!

LOL I personally don't care. But I do see Son of Beast being the next demolished coaster no doubt about it. I was thinking obviously a B&M invert wouldn't take up the space that Son of Beast does so they could use a lot of that space to expand X-base, and ultimatley make X-base the home of the new B&M invert. Also a screaming Swing would be a nice edition too.

Of course at this point I'd think we'd see some track showing up or something if we were getting anything for '11, so Its safe to say the next edition will not arrive till at least 2012.

Well if no track has shown up by now that doesn't necessarily mean we won't get a new "addition," just not a new coaster. We could possibly get a screamin swing in the X-Base by next year. A flat ride takes a lot less time to install than a coaster.

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Quite honestly if they just put a Raptor model in I'd happy! We got our one of a kind-unique-highly expensive B&M hypercoaster, and I know Cedar Fair's financial situation. If they are willing to give us one, and keep it cheap by making it a Raptor or Batman model I'm fine with that. And since I Just rode Raptor I can say quite frankly its awesome!

And yes if you look at RCDB "Raptor" Is now a model, though their are only 3 of them including Raptor at CP.

Montu is far better, why not a Montu clone?

Talon is better than Raptor, I would like a Talon clone.

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Guest Millennium

Yes, both are far better than Raptor in my opinion.

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Why so many people hold Raptor in particular in such high esteem, I do not know. Inverted coasters can be wild, forceful, and smooth. Raptor certainly has elements of each category, but does not shine above the rest in any single area. For a truly innovative, world-class inverted coaster, check out Montu or Alpengeist (among others). Both are worlds apart from eachother, but absolutely contend for first place in at least a few of the attributes I mentioned. I have had friends swear that inverted coasters are painful, uninterestingly laid out, and forceless after riding only Raptor. A quick ride on Montu, the original Batman, or the Fire Dragon* (or, Chinese Fireball?) quickly changes that.

Perhaps it could be that, like Millennium Force, Top Thrill Dragster, Maverick, and yes, even Wicked Twister, Raptor will always be popularly considered the epitome of its model if only because it is located in Sandusky, Ohio.

* GYK, who personally prefers the big blue B&M (you know, the one that actually exists) as opposed to the red one in this particular example, but must keep up appearances to keep his friends happy.

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Guest Millennium

I said it coming off the ride, and I say it now, DDF is my favorite invert. It is smooth, intense, and rerideable (which is rare for me because lots of inverts make me dizzy and nausetous) and it has great theming. Raptor is still fun considering it's age though. Hopefully I can ride Alpengeist soon.

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Why so many people hold Raptor in particular in such high esteem, I do not know. Inverted coasters can be wild, forceful, and smooth. Raptor certainly has elements of each category, but does not shine above the rest in any single area. For a truly innovative, world-class inverted coaster, check out Montu or Alpengeist (among others). Both are worlds apart from eachother, but absolutely contend for first place in at least a few of the attributes I mentioned. I have had friends swear that inverted coasters are painful, uninterestingly laid out, and forceless after riding only Raptor. A quick ride on Montu, the original Batman, or the Fire Dragon* (or, Chinese Fireball?) quickly changes that.

Perhaps it could be that, like Millennium Force, Top Thrill Dragster, Maverick, and yes, even Wicked Twister, Raptor will always be popularly considered the epitome of its model if only because it is located in Sandusky, Ohio.

* GYK, who personally prefers the big blue B&M (you know, the one that actually exists) as opposed to the red one in this particular example, but must keep up appearances to keep his friends happy.

Wait did you just say Batman was better than Raptor? I Thought Raptor was the "more advanced model". Batman was the orignal B&M invert, Raptor came out some time later and debuted as the worlds fastest, tallest, and longest invert.

Anyway I'm not saying that their aren't better inverts, not at all. It's been quite some time since it was built, but Raptor is still a great coaster and a lot of fun to ride, and if they just gave us a clone of that instead of a new innovative model to save money I'm not going to complain. Painful? How is Raptor Painful? I found the thing fast, fun and ridiculously smooth like all B&M's.

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So, biggest, tallest and fastest is always the best? May I then introduce you to what would arguably be the best wooden coaster in the world? It's closed, though.

For my money, Batman: The Ride is a far superior ride experience to Raptor. Then again, I love extremely intense forces on a relatively compact ride (See, for instance, Maverick, The Georgia Cyclone, Tremors, etc.) Thanks for helping me more carefully analyze why I like what I do. I long ago figured out that for me, the best rides are often the smaller and mid-size ones....oftentimes much is forfeited to make a ride bigger...see, for example, the difference between TopSpins and Giant TopSpins, regular Huss Enterprises and the big models, Frisbees and Giant Frisbees, Blue Streak and Mean Streak, Cornball Express and the Hoosier Hurricane (on a somewhat smaller scale).

I'm also not quite sure I'd agree that all B & M coasters are ridiculously smooth. A recent hypercoaster they built (I won't be saying which one) is nowhere near as smooth as earlier models. And Hulk has not held up well ridewise...at all. It can be very rough. See also Kumba...few would say it is ridiculously smooth, especially the year before its what appear to be every third year rehabs....and oh, I think Kumba is only about a 20 times better coaster than Raptor. Not an invert, but a mighty fine example of what it is.

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^ I thought the same thing about Hulk when I've ridden it recently. I remember how smooth it was in its first few years, and was surprised at how rough it seems now. (But, to be honest--I thought it was just ME getting old--not the coaster!! ;) )

Dueling Dragons (or "Harry Potter's Pet Dragon" or whatever they call it now ;) ) has seemed to retain its smoothness...at least so far.

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Word on the street (see, Screamscape) is that the only reason Hulk hasn't been rehabed (or repainted, for that matter) is because they're looking into getting new trains, on-board audio and lights (and hopefully, no OTSR - dream on, right?). Basically, that's what it was supposed to have when it opened, and it never did. Then it actually worked out well as a gimmick for Hollywood Rip, Ride, Rockit, so the thought is that the time has come to use it on Hulk, and do a massive overhaul on the track, paint, launch, etc. In fact, the launch tube just got new lighting effects a few weeks ago.

I have been on more than a few B&Ms that are not ridiculously smooth. Many of their hypercoasters are pretty smooth, given the right braking scheme - but then again, so is Magnum, and if Arrow can make a smooth ride, then that model must be pretty-near-intrinsically smooth, if you ask me. But yes, try Kumba, which I found to be one of the roughest, most unpleasantly-dizzying steel rides I've ever been on. Others who visited the park five months later claim it as the godsend of the park. For me, cobra rolls are just too rough, no matter if it's inverted, sitting, standing, floorless... The element looks cool, but I've never been on one that doesn't slam my head back and forth - so many it's a restraint issue more than anything.

B&M is a fantastic manufacturing firm with innovative ideas and (as we've discussed elsewhere) a noteworthy penchant for "perfecting" that which the other companies innovate. But like all the others, they have their snags and their problems, and Raptor displays a few of them, for me. I still like the ride, I just don't like how it's supposedly theee example of an inverted coaster just because it's the one Cedar Point has.

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lol well I didn't mean to make it "the example", its just honestly its the only B&M invert I've been on. I had my chance to ride batman in '93, and I passed it up (and regretted it). But I know by now their are MUCH better Inverts out there than Raptor, I'm just saying basically if Cedar Fair can some money by just using a pre-defined Raptor or Batman model to get us an invert, I'd be all for it. Of Course I'd also be all for a unique one too with some great scenery around it.

I don't think Raptor is rated high around the country either, more or less I think you probably hear about it more because when you think about it, its the only B&M invert around here!

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And B&M hasn't made an invert model for several years, it doesn't seem likely we would get one. I would love one too though.

Actually, their last Invert just opened up two weeks ago at Walygator Parc in France:

http://rcdb.com/4478.htm

Not to mention the Goliath at Six Flags Fiesta Texas is an invert, and is only two years old. There's more inverted coasters out there than Montu, Alphengeist, and Raptor, people. Need I remind you of:

  • Silver Bullet at Knott's Berry Farm
  • Talon at Dorney Park
  • Patriot at Worlds of Fun
  • Afterburn at Carowinds
  • Flight Deck at California's Great America
  • Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge at Islands of Adventure
  • Nemesis at Alton Towers
  • Black Mamba at Phantasialand

But I guess, since Cedar Point is the crown jewel of Cedar Fair, people forget that there are OTHER parks in the chain with inverts that may actually be better than Raptor.

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Guest Millennium

And B&M hasn't made an invert model for several years, it doesn't seem likely we would get one. I would love one too though.

Actually, their last Invert just opened up two weeks ago at Walygator Parc in France:

http://rcdb.com/4478.htm

Not to mention the Goliath at Six Flags Fiesta Texas is an invert, and is only two years old. There's more inverted coasters out there than Montu, Alphengeist, and Raptor, people. Need I remind you of:

  • Silver Bullet at Knott's Berry Farm
  • Talon at Dorney Park
  • Patriot at Worlds of Fun
  • Afterburn at Carowinds
  • Flight Deck at California's Great America
  • Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge at Islands of Adventure
  • Nemesis at Alton Towers
  • Black Mamba at Phantasialand

But I guess, since Cedar Point is the crown jewel of Cedar Fair, people forget that there are OTHER parks in the chain with inverts that may actually be better than Raptor.

Correction: The invert model hasn't been popular IN THE US for several years. That list is impressive, Wikipedia?

BTW, I hate to burst your bubble, but Goliath at SFFT is NOT two years old, it is 15! Ever heard of Thrill Valley?

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With the exception of 2009 and 2005 there has been an Inverted Coaster built by B&M every year since the first. It's still their most popular model. I wouldn't be shocked if King's Island's next coaster is a B&M, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it in Flight Deck's/Son of Beast's current location.

Careful your breaking the rule. Don't talk smack about Flight Deck lol. ITs everyone's favorite lamer-coaster so you'll get people riled up. Oh and on that note I rode Iron Dragon at Cedar Point so I can OFFICIALLY say the Suspended coaster sucks now that I've rode 2!

LOL I personally don't care. But I do see Son of Beast being the next demolished coaster no doubt about it. I was thinking obviously a B&M invert wouldn't take up the space that Son of Beast does so they could use a lot of that space to expand X-base, and ultimatley make X-base the home of the new B&M invert. Also a screaming Swing would be a nice edition too.

Of course at this point I'd think we'd see some track showing up or something if we were getting anything for '11, so Its safe to say the next edition will not arrive till at least 2012.

I would actually say that it's safe to say that our new edition won't arrive until 2013 or 2014, and if it's a new coaster probably not until 2015. We'd see something by now if something was going to be new for next year, I should have been more specific when I said that our next addition MAY BE an Invert.

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The B&M "trend" coaster right now is their hypercoaster, that and nearly every park in the US EXCEPT Kings Island has a B&M invert, or at least Vekoma SLC. Or perhaps a unique Intamin one like "Volcano: The Blast Coaster". Why would a park order a second invert? Well I mean other than having say a Shuttle invert and a Full circuit invert at the same time which is quite common, and ok because they offer different ride experiences.

Anyway if Cedar Fair contacted B&M today about building an invert for Cedar Fair I doubt they'd say "I'm sorry but that model is discontinued and we can't build it anymore... can I interest you in a floorless or a Dive Machine?"

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Anyway if Cedar Fair contacted B&M today about building an invert for Cedar Fair I doubt they'd say "I'm sorry but that model is discontinued and we can't build it anymore... can I interest you in a floorless or a Dive Machine?"

Are you sure? How do you know that Diamondback wasn't proposed by Cedar Fair as an invert and finagled into a hypercoaster since that's their "trend coaster"? It stands to reason that, if hypers are what people are after, that's how they're spending their innovation time, and that if someone asked for an "outdated" model, they would try to steer them around to something more current.

Firms like B&M make two, maybe three, new rides a year, and oversee just as many relocations. To make SheiKra, Behemoth, Griffon, Diamondback, and Intimidator and then ask to shift their staff into "invert" mode that they haven't worked with in a number of years might take a toll... Not saying they wouldn't do it, just that they might try to work with the customer (in this case, Cedar Fair Entertainment Company) to do something more appropriate for the workforce that they currently have.

If you called up S&S Arrow and asked for a suspended coaster, would they do it? I bet for the right price... But would they try to talk you into the new Freefly coaster their staff has been working with and perfecting and building and spending time and money on over and over for the past five years? I don't doubt it.

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Firms like B&M make two, maybe three, new rides a year, and oversee just as many relocations. To make SheiKra, Behemoth, Griffon, Diamondback, and Intimidator and then ask to shift their staff into "invert" mode that they haven't worked with in a number of years might take a toll... Not saying they wouldn't do it, just that they might try to work with the customer (in this case, Cedar Fair Entertainment Company) to do something more appropriate for the workforce that they currently have.

B&M's last new, custom invert opened in 2007 ( http://www.rcdb.com/3935.htm ), so I highly doubt B&M would be objective to the idea. Parks are still buying them, and it's still offered on their catalog of coasters (at least it is on their site). I think you're really off the mark here, especially with your comment regarding B&M's engineering staff, but perhaps somebody with more knowledge in this area can enlighten us (Terpy???).

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All I will say, as has been said in the past, is that B and M had pitched a coaster very similar to Diamondback to Kings Island under Paramount Parks prior to June 30, 2006, when Cedar Fair purchased the latter. PP did not buy.

Diamondback exists....

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B&M does what B&M does. You can't just say, "Make Kings Island have an inverted coaster" and they'll make one. It takes a lot of work out of the park itself and all its employees...I bet you the employees right now are thinking of something totally different than an inverted coaster.

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All we can do is wait and see what is announced in the future. I would like to see a B&M Floorless. Somethig like Dominator at KD. Or a Dive Maching like Griffon or Shekra.

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