McSalsa Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Well, I haven't made a poll in well over a month (probably longer), and with the 2010 Kings Island season a month away, I got the idea for this poll. Last year, the Gravity Group announced their new "Timberliner" wooden roller coaster trains, and they state that these trains will improve existsing wooden roller coasters greatly. The subject of this poll is how well do you think they will work, and will they help the roller coaster KI has that immediatley comes to mind- Son of Beast. Timberliner video links to help you make your decision: Timberlines test on Holiday World's Raven. Behind the scenes look at the Timberliners. My Opinion? I think these trains will work AMAZINGLY well, and could breathe new life into those existing "roughies" like Mean Streak, Son of Beast, etc. As for how much they could help SOB itself, I think they will reduce the roughness to acceptable levels, but given its reputation, some roughness may remain in spots. Enjoy the poll. If you don't like polls, click back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I think The Gravity Group will be very careful to whom these trains are sold and for what purpose. Their reputation and future depend on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 I think The Gravity Group will be very careful to whom these trains are sold and for what purpose. Their reputation and future depend on it. It was a joke, but I edited it out. The trains I was describing were fictional. PS: We will KNOW how well these trains work when Holiday World and Voyage open, but that's 2 months away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Uh...the part you edited out is gone...but I meant my comment you quoted. That's my vote! I do not see The Gravity Group selling trains for Son of Beast.... Who designed and built Voyage? Oh yeah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Dear World: Son of Beast IS NOT GETTING TIMBERLINERS!!!!!! That is All. Sorry for yelling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Uh...the part you edited out is gone...but I meant my comment you quoted. That's my vote! I do not see The Gravity Group selling trains for Son of Beast.... Who designed and built Voyage? Oh yeah... Good points. I do remeber the Gravity Group did make a comment that they would only put these trains on their own coasters (does that count the coasters built by the company that came before them, CCI, that built Raven, Legend, and others that eventually became the Gravity Group or just their "new" ones?). But, if they work really well, the Gravity Group would be pretty foolish not to sell/equip rides not built by them with the trains. They could very well save various rough woodies and make money at the same time. Terpy, you always get me thinking...somehow. PS: If you do not think SOB will ever get Timberliners, Poll #2 is a "What If?" poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 And, if a coaster on which they were installed then has an incident, guess who also gets sued? Yep, the train maker...Foolish not to get in this situation? I think not. I believe the statement you remember is that of GCII, which has not in the past sold Millennium Flyer trains to parks that wanted to buy them for coasters not built or designed by GCII... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 And, if a coaster on which they were installed then has an incident, guess who also gets sued? Yep, the train maker...Foolish not to get in this situation? I think not. I believe the statement you remember is that of GCII, which has not in the past sold Millennium Flyer trains to parks that wanted to buy them for coasters not built or designed by GCII... I meant will the Gravity Group install these trains on Custom Coasters International Coasters, such as Raven & Legend, etc. since the engineering team from CCI remains at the Gravity Group. The trains were tested and worked on Raven, after all (see video). Because if they will only install Timberliners on their "new" coasters, then only 5 roller coasters in the world are eligable, plus a new one in 2011...which I honestly would bet money will have them by default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I strongly suspect that The Gravity Group will be most happy to sell Timberliners to any park that wants to install them on rides designed by CCI. But, only TGG can answer that question, and I doubt seriously they are interested in providing answers to hypothetical questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 To Terpy- I agree about the CCI coasters possibly getting Timberliners, and yes, only TGG can truly awnser that. Living in Indiana, that means up to 6 wooden coasters in my state appear eligable (Voyage, Legend, Raven, Cornball Express, Lost Coaster of Superstition Moutain, and Hoosier Hurricane)...and yet none in Ohio! Weird. Alsol, here's something a bit off topic, but I just realized- The Beast may have a connection to modern Gravity Group wooden coasters... #1-The Beast is designed and built in part by Charles Dinn and other designers, in 1979. #2-Charles Dinn's daughter, Denise Dinn Larrick, co-founds Custom Coasters International with Randy Larrick in 1991. They build many awesome coasters such as Raven, Legend, Cornball Express, etc etc. #3-In 2002, CCI goes out of business. 4 of its former engineers form the Gravity Group, which has built some of the world's top wooden roller coasters, though Denise herself forms a wooden coaster division at S&S...but none of their existsing woodies are very famous, and there are few of them. Interesting stuff. Guess it seems that Voyage @ Holiday World is more closely related to The Beast than the ride billed as "Son of Beast". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Uh, the coaster at Holiday World most related to Beast is an homage to the legend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Uh, the coaster at Holiday World most related to Beast is an homage to the legend. Good point...that coaster IS even closer to The Beast, being a CCI. In fact, all 6 woodies in Indiana are thus pretty close to The Beast, since 5 of them are CCIs...and one is Gravity Group... Yet SOB is NOT CCI or GG, it's a RCCA...and I don't think it has PTC trains like its father, though I may be wrong on that...and it is even made of different wood...it isn't a terrain coaster at all...it has zero tunnels...WHY WAS THIS RIDE EVEN NAMED Son of Beast!?!? (I know, the reason was marketing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback96 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 And will they put Timberliners on Dinn Corporation coasters? (CCI was created by Charles Dinn's daughter, according to Wikipedia. Can Terpy confirm this?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 And will they put Timberliners on Dinn Corporation coasters? (CCI was created by Charles Dinn's daughter, according to Wikipedia. Can Terpy confirm this?) If so...that means...Mean Streak with Timberliners!?!? Texas Giant overhaul is waste of money!?!? (I looked at list list and most Dinn coasters are viewed as abombinations or demolished. Of course, there are some good ones but not many...) Of course, SOB isn't Dinn Corporation either...it's RCCA and it's unusual wide track may present a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Coaster trains can correct only those problems caused by coaster trains...they cannot remedy more than minor maladies with structure. Terpy, stating the obvious...and yes, Denise Dinn Larrick was head of CCI...until it no longer existed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBeast07 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Do i think SOB will get timberliners in it's current state? no Do i think SOB will get timberliners after a GG overhaul? possibly GG did consulting on SOB after the 2006 incident, so they know the ride. If they are given free reign to modify the ride how they want I'd imagine they would put their trains on the ride. If they were to modify/ alter the rosebowl the ride would be so much less of a risk. I'd imagine the park would think of changing the rides name though. A lot of people now know that people keep suing the park because of SOB. X became X2, Steel Phantom became Phantom's Revenge, what will SOB become if they changed the name? That's if the ride reopens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 The name Apollo's Chariot is already taken. Terpy, just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback96 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 SoB2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyMan98 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 The Sister Of The Beast. Or the Son's Son of Beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 A Gravity Group total overhaul of Son of Beast? Uh-Oh. We have seen what those guys do with a 160-foot drop, ala Voyage. Imagine what they could do if they kept the current lift hill of Son of Beast. Although, if any modifications involving removing large sections of the ride and replacing them with new ones, then we have to consider it a "new" ride...I think. Then again, don't we already have to consider SOB V1 (2000-2006) defunct because the loop is gone? And the "new" SOB would probably have timberliners...but only if the Gravity Group is willing to overhaul the ride. As for a new name, if that happens...Son of Beast: The Revenge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyMan98 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 The Beast's Revenge. AHA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 Just had a thought- if the GG did do a overhaul of SOB, it might be cool to have a section where the ride stops, enters a tunnel, and then uses the "Launch" Timberliner feature into either a new loop or a helix. It would probably be expensive, but it would attract guests...I can just see the marketing: After 1 1/2 (mid 2009 through 2010) years, Son of Beast has returned. And it now has even MORE world records: -Tallest Wooden Roller Coaster (218ft) -Fastest Wooden Roller Coaster (78mph) -ONLY Looping Wooden Roller Coaster -ONLY Launched Wooden Roller Coaster -2nd Longest Wooden Roller Coaster (Or they may just surpass Beast...) -etc etc etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbfan Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 What Wood coasters have been guranteed to use timberliners next year? And Im not going to answer this poll, I think I need to try it out before I can say how smooth they make a ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Guaranteed? None. There are no guarantees. But Voyage is expected to run Timberliners this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast79 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 SOB has become too much of a liability, if any modifications would to be done there would have to be a crazy amount of modifications. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coney Islander Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Do i think SOB will get timberliners in it's current state? no Do i think SOB will get timberliners after a GG overhaul? possibly GG did consulting on SOB after the 2006 incident, so they know the ride. If they are given free reign to modify the ride how they want I'd imagine they would put their trains on the ride. If they were to modify/ alter the rosebowl the ride would be so much less of a risk. I'd imagine the park would think of changing the rides name though. A lot of people now know that people keep suing the park because of SOB. X became X2, Steel Phantom became Phantom's Revenge, what will SOB become if they changed the name? That's if the ride reopens. A Gravity Group total overhaul of Son of Beast? Uh-Oh. We have seen what those guys do with a 160-foot drop, ala Voyage. Imagine what they could do if they kept the current lift hill of Son of Beast. Although, if any modifications involving removing large sections of the ride and replacing them with new ones, then we have to consider it a "new" ride...I think. Then again, don't we already have to consider SOB V1 (2000-2006) defunct because the loop is gone? And the "new" SOB would probably have timberliners...but only if the Gravity Group is willing to overhaul the ride. As for a new name, if that happens...Son of Beast: The Revenge? Thank you for that opinions... Son of Beast's situation is not much different than Clipper at Coney Island... Clipper opened at Coney Island in 1937, but was closed in 1946, due to roughness, unpopularity, and notoriety for being "dangerous." The following winter, the ride was completely reworked. Engineers replacing its twisting layout (actually, quite similar to SOB's), with a very simple, out and back layout, only retaining the lift hill and the final helix. Clipper was renamed "Shooting Star", and became the most famous roller coaster in Coney Island's history. Now to think about it... 1. Both Son of Beast and Clipper lasted roughly 9 years. 2. Both Son of Beast and Clipper were notable for being very rough, and were thought as "dangerous" by the general public. 3. Son of Beast can be completely reworked... and its new version can be better, maybe even becoming the most famous coaster in Kings Island's history. Just my two cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 With all due respect, the mid-1940's were a very different time, from costs to the liability environment to the engineering resources available to the public's expectations of ride comfort, smoothness, etc. Terp, just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBeast07 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 ^^ interesting parallel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Just to note, during the GG tour, they answered a question by saying something along the lines of the following - they would be willing to sell/install Timberliners on any coaster that met their stringent track specifications. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 And at the time the Clipper operated, most amusement parks were still using a ticket based system. Which meant if people weren`t riding the rides, the park wasn`t generating revenue. So naturally if a ride was not popular, it would stand to reason that the park would have an impetus to reinvent the ride, in order to spark interest in it, and bring some revenue back to that ride. Keep in mind that back in the day, some amusement parks did not even own all their rides. They had some concessionaires that actually owned the rides, and both the concessionaires and the park split the revenues that the rides made. I guess the closest equivalent to that now a days are the fair companies that set up their rides at church or community festivals. They share some of their profits with the organization that contracted with them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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