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^That's exactly it Shark, as I pointed out in my revision before you posted, it just makes the park look even more un-professional and out-right bizarre for a theme park. KK has been plagued with bad PR, and odd policies. This, this only further deepens the muck that is the park. Now let me say this, I love the park. I think it has a great line up of both water and land based attractions. If it were up to me, I would go to KK right now. I am only being critical to this extent because I want the park to succeed, yet the park's policies and standings are just so bizarre and it saddens me to see KK go down like this for the season. Kentucky is a field worth reaping, play it well and you will make the money that the Bluegrass has to offer.

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Yesterday while I was outside of the fence the site leader from RMC came out and gave us stickers and talked about the industry. That really made my day! Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G928A using Tapatalk

Back to the topic at hand... I got sneaky and took some pics while at the Fairgrounds this weekend... Enjoy!

Guys I received a large surprise from the Kingdom today. I learned I was being promoted to be in charge of the operation of the Thunder Zone. Apparently I have really impressed in the last few months

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Oh I have no doubt on that Terp. I know what's brewing in the Bluegrass, especially the NKY region, things are changing and the park needs to change too. I don't want KY to loose the park, but at the same time, I don't want KY to SPEND all that money on a park that isn't making money.

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I'm sure the Fair Board could simply expand the fairgrounds if the park went away. Here in Indy, our fairgrounds are landlocked, so to speak, so any expansion must be done around the edges. Given the upsurge in popularity of regional and state fairs (given their good value for the $), I'm sure Looie could benefit from having the extra land and could even incorporate some of the rides into an expanded midway if the park goes away. Mr. Hart doesn't hold nearly the leverage he did a few years ago.

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Why does the Fair Board even bring in another ride operator during the State Fair when they own an amusement park on the same grounds? Sell fair tickets with or without the Kingdom included for those who do or don't want to ride...Are the additional spinny pukey rides really that big of a draw?

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Yes, they are. Carnivals are both a huge draw and a huge revenue source for fairs and festivals. Even sites with permanent rides bring in midway operator(s). Those that do not have seen precipitous drops in revenue and attendance.

Why come to the fair to ride what's there all season long?

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I've talked with and worked with more than my share of fair and festival managers and board members. From that experience, they spend quite a bit of money each year to create an event that does the following: create a great experience for their community, cover costs of the budgeted fair for the next year, and gain additional revenue to assist in capital improvements. Everything you see at a fair costs money...things as simple as a stage for the band to sing on, the bleachers you sit on, the tractor pull, 4-H award ribbons, tents, golf carts, port-a-potties, and even the petting zoo. Those vendors have to cover their costs and fairs have budgets to cover that after all the negotiations are handled. The fair and festival circuit is fascinating.

Generally, when attendance is down, revenue typically doesn't meet expectations. Typically then changes are made to meet attendance and revenue expectations.

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Why come to the fair to ride what's there all season long?

Why come to the fair to ride anything when you can see a poorly maintained relic from a bygone era?

And no, I'm not talking about the Vekoma in the back of the park, I'm talking about this travesty:

Of course, if you want rides that people actually want to ride, and a better maintained version of this old relic, Huntington, WV is only about 3 hours from Louisville...

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North American Midway has been apart of the state fair since about 2006. Before NAM their was Cumberland Valley Shows. NAM is way better than CVS but NAM mainly has duplicates of the same attractions and the have the same rides every year which gets old.

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I've talked with and worked with more than my share of fair and festival managers and board members. From that experience, they spend quite a bit of money each year to create an event that does the following: create a great experience for their community, cover costs of the budgeted fair for the next year, and gain additional revenue to assist in capital improvements. Everything you see at a fair costs money...things as simple as a stage for the band to sing on, the bleachers you sit on, the tractor pull, 4-H award ribbons, tents, golf carts, port-a-potties, and even the petting zoo. Those vendors have to cover their costs and fairs have budgets to cover that after all the negotiations are handled. The fair and festival circuit is fascinating.

Generally, when attendance is down, revenue typically doesn't meet expectations. Typically then changes are made to meet attendance and revenue expectations.

How do the agreements with the companies that bring in the rides work? Who pays who for them to be there? How do the profits get divided up?

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I've talked with and worked with more than my share of fair and festival managers and board members. From that experience, they spend quite a bit of money each year to create an event that does the following: create a great experience for their community, cover costs of the budgeted fair for the next year, and gain additional revenue to assist in capital improvements. Everything you see at a fair costs money...things as simple as a stage for the band to sing on, the bleachers you sit on, the tractor pull, 4-H award ribbons, tents, golf carts, port-a-potties, and even the petting zoo. Those vendors have to cover their costs and fairs have budgets to cover that after all the negotiations are handled. The fair and festival circuit is fascinating.

Generally, when attendance is down, revenue typically doesn't meet expectations. Typically then changes are made to meet attendance and revenue expectations.

How do the agreements with the companies that bring in the rides work? Who pays who for them to be there? How do the profits get divided up?

Every agreement is different. Speaking for Indiana, those contracts are public documents, so you may make a request to the Indiana State Fair Commission here in Indy and ask to have a copy of the contract between the fair and midway operator sent or emailed to you if you're curious.

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How do the agreements with the companies that bring in the rides work? Who pays who for them to be there? How do the profits get divided up?

It depends on the company. From what I've heard at the large conference I attend, some midway companies charge a nominal fee and then have an contract about how much they will pay the fair based on the percentage or flat rate of ride tickets, food and games.

Many non-county fairs and festivals have applications and charge food vendors to set-up at their event. For those situations, the money made by the vendor is kept by the vendor.

Entertainers are a different story. Most have a flat fee to come to the fair and a percentage of any concert ticket sales.

Others have a sliding fee payable by the fair based on hours and size of the activity/experience. Some will then require tickets of the fair attendee, and others won't.

There are lots of different pricing structure models. And just because fair A paid one price, doesn't necessary mean that fair B paid the same price. There are lots of negotiations as nearly all fairs have tight budgets and are trying to make their money go as far as possible. Fairs and festivals typically have non-profit status.

The folks that I've worked with have been friendly and very outgoing. It is clear to me that they take their job on the fair board seriously and want to make it a great experience. If you are interested in seeing the variety of vendors available to fairs, this is a great starting point - http://www.ohiofairs.org/index.php/ohio-fairs-associates

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Back home the (Hardin) County Fair is a pay one price and get everything type of event. There are no ride ticket or any of that stuff. Of course that means that you must pay full price to get your 1 year old into the event. That price goes up every year.

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Wouldn't being known as a lobbyist be the last thing Kentucky Kingdom wants? I know they rely on the politicians to operate at the moment, but they shouldn't be giving people reasons to hate them.

I kind of wanted to go just out of curiosity's sake, but with all the crap they pull in being able to operate in the first place, I just see no desire to give them any support, including giving them my money.

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The New Kentucky Kingdom would have never opened without political support and will become even less likely to operate with the loss of political support. Hmmm politicians during an election year will more than likely distance themselves from this poison pill.

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I have 2 questions about Kentucky Kingdom.

1. I've been reading the thread and have constantly read that Kentucky Kingdom failed twice. I understand why it failed with Six Flags. However, through a Wiki search (don't have much else to pull from in terms of sources here, so bear with me on choosing Wiki), I saw it failed right after its first season. Why did it fail then and are any of those reasons similar to how its struggling now? Differences?

2. What will be the breaking point at which they do decide to close the Kingdom?

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The primary reasons the original Kentucky Kingdom failed were location and severe under-capitalization. The New Kentucky Kingdom's situation cannot be easily distinguished as to either.

What will the breaking point be? I suspect it will be a political one, and later this year or in 2017...

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