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3 hours ago, silver2005 said:

^^Then all that proves KI isn't underestimating KK.  

The whole conversation is only really directed towards management (since no one here can affect what the park is going to add or dismantle) and they've shown no signs on not doing what is in the best interest of the park in relation to HW and KK.  

Exactly.  But my understanding is that you had the opinion that KK is a niche park and KI hasn't really considered  it competition.

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2 hours ago, silver2005 said:

Of course Thunder Run gets an off season re-tracking on a year I'm not going to amusement parks. 

Penciling it in for next season en route to Holiwood Nights. 

Just go to Keys to the Kingdom. Its the Sunday after Holiwood Nights.

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I don't think they're as big a competition as some are making it out to be, at least not in a way where KK could really do that much drawing of attendance away from KI (as if KI weren't going to still be adding things) when nothing going on even hints to that kind of notion.  

Lots of areas have a high concentration of parks that co-exist fine and nothing about KI in relation to KK and HW shows that they're underestimating anything. 

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Competition is complicated, frequently in the amusement park industry competition helps both parks.  Not just by pushing them to do better but by drawing in new guests, and causing people to visit parks more frequently.  Orlando is the easy one, executives at both Disney and Universal are on record stating new rides at their competition actually increase attendance.  They draw more guests to the area and cause them to stay longer.  I have seen interviews with executives at Disney stating that they saw attendance go up after the Wizarding World of Harry Potter opened.

Amusement parks are competing with the entire spectrum of leisure activities, everything from Netflix, to Video Games, to a movie theater, and even parks like Universal and Disney.  Anything that you could be instead be doing is competition.  To an extent having more parks, giving potential guests additional reasons to think about the industry.  Creating new enthusiasts, providing a reason for people to come to an area and stay for several days visiting multiple parks helps everyone.

The number of guests visiting parks, and the number of days they are visiting is not static.  This is a lot more complicated then if a guest is going to visit one or the other.  Kings Island might have lost a few guests, but how many has it gained?  I understand why it might feel like for one to gain guests the other has to lose but its just not true.  Someone has to lose, because time and money are finite, but for the majority of guests its another activity entirely.

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@Kenban you bring up a good point I haven't thought of about parks feeding off of one another. I do have a question on that note though and I'd be interested to see what you think:

Disney and Universal are both located in the Orlando area while Kings Island and Kentucky Kingdom are a little over 2 hours away (126 miles) from one another in two different cities and states. Do you think the Disney/Universal thing would equally apply given the distance between Kings Island and Kentucky Kingdom?

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I went to KK yesterday for.their opening day.  Here's what I posted on another forum.

 

I was there yesterday. Ops were painfully slow with 1 train only (except Kentucky Flyer). Storm Chaser they mandated exiting 1 row at a time and they only sat 4-5 rows in a train. I counted just over 4 minutes from the time the train pulled in until the next dispatch.

Storm Chaser went down at about 3 and didn't come back up.

Drink stations - 1 employee will fill your cup. Guests are not allowed at the dispensing machines. (Interestingly the employee that was filling the cups didn't wear a mask correctly and didn't understand only touching the bottom half of the cup.)

The park was not very busy, even with reduced guest numbers I foresee it being a very challenging season because KK already struggled with ops and throughput.

Masks are not required (although they say it is recommended.)

Thunder Run got some retracking in the off season and I felt it was running great. I actually threw 7 laps down on her I thought she was running so well.

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I think that was probably always the plan to sell it.

The problem is if they become part of a chain it is probably going to be the same result as what happened the last time.

Six Flags would do the same thing they did the last time.

Cedar Fair wouldn't invest in it enough because of the proximity to KI.  Best case would be similar to Dorney, worst case would be Geauga Lake.

An interesting chain to buy it that would be Herschend.  If they could turn it into a mini SDC/mini Dollywood it would be a great scenario.  It would take a lot of work but doing a Kentucky version of that type of park would be great.  Herschend owns Newport Aquarium so they could work on combo tickets/ passes between the two if they wanted.

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I'd love to see what Herschend could do with it. I agree with you that they'd probably be the best to take it.It's too close to HW for the Koch's and KI for Cedar Fair. The issue i'd see with it would be the issues with the fair board. Not sure Herschend would want to deal with that. Plus as you said it would take a lot of work to get it to a level anywhere close to Dollywood/SDC. Just not sure the park and it's attendance make it worth it along with the headaches the Fair board could provide for any owners.

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You have to remember that it's not just Mr. Hart.  He has a team of investors.  He has said that KK is a "cash cow."  The investments they have added do not belong to them.  They become assets of the Fair Board.  

Also to note--when I visited over a week ago, the empty land outside the park...think from the maintenance building on over to the freeway...was cleared and dirt was being moved.  I don't know if this is fair board land or land Mr. Hart has gobbled up.  It's rumored to be parking lot space so that the park is less dependent on the fair boards whims.  It definitely is interesting.

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On 7/25/2020 at 3:13 PM, purdude86 said:

I'd love to see what Herschend could do with it. I agree with you that they'd probably be the best to take it.It's too close to HW for the Koch's and KI for Cedar Fair. The issue i'd see with it would be the issues with the fair board. Not sure Herschend would want to deal with that. Plus as you said it would take a lot of work to get it to a level anywhere close to Dollywood/SDC. Just not sure the park and it's attendance make it worth it along with the headaches the Fair board could provide for any owners.

Herschend operates the Newport Aquarium so that could be a good cross promotion if they owned KK. They might not be able to put them on the level of Dollywood and Silver Dollar City but maybe they could be able to give them more Dollywood and Silver Dollar City type rides.

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Yea ‘my sure they could still improve the look some. The area between Hurler and Storm Chaser full of trees looks pretty nice to me overall. So even just adding more trees around would be a huge improvement. 

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On 8/2/2020 at 1:01 PM, purdude86 said:

Yea ‘my sure they could still improve the look some. The area between Hurler and Storm Chaser full of trees looks pretty nice to me overall. So even just adding more trees around would be a huge improvement. 

Haha Hurler.  How Thunder Run could just be a mirror to Hurler but be such a better ride baffles me.  Hurler could be demolished today and I would have no ill feelings towards Carowinds.  

The area between those two attractions is very nice.  Good to sit in the shade and relax.  Very pretty too.

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^TR's hills have smaller radius' at the top which produce more airtime.  Hurler takes that and draws everything out.  

To me, TR's first bunny hill after the first drop is one of the best out there. 

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KK's coasters may not be the biggest, tallest or fastest, but they certainly are very well maintained.  No skimping there.  I've never ridden another Vekoma SLC, but as bad as T3 is, it seems to be one of the better ones with the new trains.  Thanks for explaining the radius on Thunder Run.  It has always bugged me and now I know! ;)

 

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^I think TR is a tad bit more compact due to that as well as having tighter turns.  

And I've rode both TR and the former KD Hurler to know the difference.  

silver2005, who hopes to get to the Hartland on the way to HWN next summer. B) 

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^I never got to ride the KD Hurler, but the Carowinds Hurler was truly terrible.  Like if you took Mean Streak. added In some Hades 360 and some other random terrible coasters.   

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16 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

^I never got to ride the KD Hurler, but the Carowinds Hurler was truly terrible.  Like if you took Mean Streak. added In some Hades 360 and some other random terrible coasters.   

Hades 360 is not a terrible coaster. It is quite the opposite. Its a top 2 or 3 wood coaster for me. I also don't get why you typed Mean Streak. It wasn't a Hurler clone and in the 90's without the trim on the first drop it was not terrible either.

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5 hours ago, SnakePlissken said:

Hades 360 is not a terrible coaster. It is quite the opposite. Its a top 2 or 3 wood coaster for me. I also don't get why you typed Mean Streak. It wasn't a Hurler clone and in the 90's without the trim on the first drop it was not terrible either.

Coaster experiences are subjective.  For me, Mean Streak was boring.  It was not a terrible ride, just extremely boring.  Hurler at Cwinds was also boring.  Hades 360 was a terrible ride for me--ot comfortable at all.  Same way with Hurler.  But some people love Hurler, Hades 360 and the former Mean Streak.  

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14 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Coaster experiences are subjective.  For me, Mean Streak was boring.  It was not a terrible ride, just extremely boring.  Hurler at Cwinds was also boring.  Hades 360 was a terrible ride for me--ot comfortable at all.  Same way with Hurler.  But some people love Hurler, Hades 360 and the former Mean Streak.  

Yep, and T3 seems to be the butt of a lot of jokes but it’s my favorite ride at KK by far. I really do enjoy it with the new trains. 

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Check their website the day you want to go as they list the rides not operating for the day as well as their hours.  All summer the big wheel, the 5D theater, and bumper cars all have been closed due to COVID-19.   The rafting ride sometimes opens from 2-6pm to cool off. Over in the waterpark, deluge has been closed all summer.   KK is only open weekends now through the end of September (check their calendar on their website because hours do seem to change some time).   No word yet if KK will open on weekends in October with some type of fall event like last year.

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11 hours ago, bengalsguy23 said:

Might go to KK this year. Have been in years past. Is this year worth to anyone that's gone? How have they handled COVID? And are all the rides running (or at least planning to run)?

Keys to the Kingdom is Sunday August 30 and tickets may still be on sale.

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