Browntggrr Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Today is deadline for potential Kentucky Kingdom operators Louisville businessman Ed Hart says he plans to meet that deadline with a proposal. So far he is the only developer to publicly state his intentions to do so. http://www.wdrb.com/...ngdom-operators 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The only machine that's going to be operated in that park will be a wrecking ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 What next? http://m.wave3.com/autojuice?targetUrl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.wave3.com%2fstory%2f19867211%2fkentucky-kingdom-deadline-passes-state-will-weigh-proposals Gary Story group did NOT bid: http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20121019/NEWS01/310190103/Ed-Hart-group-only-known-interest-operating-Kentucky-Kingdom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Interesting. The fair board has no say in the matter now. I wonder how that will change things. Specifically, will dealing directly with the state be easier or more difficult than dealing with the fair board? Only time will tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I get the distinct impression that unless the state is assured of a more probable than not likelihood of success, the park is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrfyter Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 KFEC is already in the hole for 5.5 million. Tearing down the park would be stupid. Parking alone brings in about 2 million a year, and the payments from the park could fill the rest of this hole. Hope the state is smart enough to realize this. If they can it, hope the taxpayers wring the state for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 But how much money must be invested to get the park back up to snuff? Plus money to make it competative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondbacker Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 But how much money must be invested to get the park back up to snuff? Plus money to make it competative? I'm not a financial wizard. But from looking at user Gordon Bombay's photos of the park from earlier this year (http://queencitydisc...walk-rises.html), it seems that they would need maybe $25 million, possibly more. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but that number seems correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 More money than the Kochs were able to secure prudently, apparently. More than Mr. Hart could get without the taxpayers of Kentucky guaranteeing the loan last time around. Why should the taxpayers in Pike County, Trigg County and the rest of the state be forced to risk their tax dolllars on a twice failed amusement park in Jefferson County when there isn't enough money to pay state employees without using mandatory furloughs, Medicaid is underfunded and on and on? For that matter, why should Mr. Hart or anyone else be allowed to run a state subsidized amusement park while Beech Bend, Holiday World and Kings Island must compete against them? If Kentucky Kingdom were such a wonderful business proposition, it wouldn't be in the situation it is today. Arguably, the smartest and best operators in all the world have had opportunity after opportunity to at least look at the place during the formal viewing process. Other than the Premier organization and Mr. Hart, they didn't even take the time to snoop. The former, whose principals used to run Six Flags, says it did not bid. Mr. Hart may not have made a responsive bid. It speaks volumes that the Fair Board is NOT being allowed to evaluate the proposals or make the decision. The Finance Cabinet will be far more concerned with the economic merits from the state's standpoint. As for $25 million, I highly doubt that would be even a drop in the bucket toward what is needed to properly repair, restore and renovate even a sizeable portion of that park. Again, why did the Fair Board drop Mr. Hart? Why did the Kochs walk? See particularly the last paragraph of this article: http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Ky-kingdom--175004401.html 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 More (including Workman quoted as saying last time Hart made demands on state revenue streams the state couldn't meet): http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/1-group-submits-proposal-for-Kentucky-Kingdom-3963869.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustbucket Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 No one will open KK and expand unless they can own the land. Why would anyone deal with the fair board? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 The current RFP is with the State, NOT the Fair Board. Hard Rock Park and Wild West World didn't involve the Fair Board.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrfyter Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 More (including Workman quoted as saying last time Hart made demands on state revenue streams the state couldn't meet): http://www.sfgate.co...dom-3963869.php Workman was a PITA to work with. Also, he felt a personal beef with anyone who he felt screwed him over in the past. (I have my sources on this). I can see that part of the unraveling of the initial workings with Ed Hart. I can see Workman still being upset that Ed sold the park when it was at its pinnacle, and then Six Flags submarined it. One would think that since Hart has done it once, he can probably do it again, but I doubt he will ever sell it again. No one will open KK and expand unless they can own the land. Why would anyone deal with the fair board? When Hart owned it the first time, land was an interesting issue. Part of it was owned by the state, and the other part was owned by him, purchased parcels at a time for expansion room. (Now even most of the empty lots, all with Phillips Ln addresses belong to the state.) When Hart sold it, the land owned by him became property belonging to Six Flags. When Six Flags walked away and broke their contract the bankruptcy judge allowed it, but gave all the land and remaining rides to the state. Part of SFs contract with the state said any improvements, rides, fixtures, etc, to the land belonged to the state when Six Flags leaves. The other issue with that area has to deal with height restrictions being in such close proximity to the airport. The glide path prevents building beyond a certain height in certain parcels of the park. I can't see why anyone would want to own the land. Owning the land means having to pay property taxes. If the land already belongs to the state, then property taxes are not going to be paid on it. You are going to make your money off admission, sales, upcharges, etc. You are going to pay a tourism tax, but you aren't going to pay property taxes. The other thing is, expansion space is limited. Why would you want to own that? Its not like KI where there is still a rediculous amount of space to grow. Eventually if the park reopens, expansions will push it to the borders being KFEC & Circle of Champions drive on the NE side, and the Watterson Expwy to the South, and Crittenden drive to the West. There is probably enough space for the park to see a 25-33% expansion of the current space but that is about it. Maybe 45-50% tops, if you bought up some of the junk that abuts the park to the West. You can't cross Crittenden because there are a number of trucking distribution centers that aren't going to leave. Using parking lots could be an option, but the state fair is still held for 2 weeks every year, and every spot around there and more are filled when it is in town. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Details revealed of Ed Hart's plan to reopen Kentucky Kingdom Investor Ed Hart wants to pump $120 million into the aging and defunct Kentucky Kingdom amusement park in the latest proposal to reopen it.His Kentucky Kingdom Redevelopment Company would invest $50 million in startup money and $70 million over the term of the lease with the state. It's not requesting any startup money from the state. KKRC says it will restore all but one of the park's current rides and add four more, including a new $15 million roller coaster. It will also double the size of the water park, "Hurricane Bay." http://www.wdrb.com/story/19876877/details-revealed-of-ed-harts-plan-to-reopen-kentucky-kingdom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stashua123 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 sort of good news! but is Twisted Twins going to be Demoed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 ^ Proposals always look good on paper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoaster Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 wow I just read this http://www.kentuckykingdom.com/site/ and the proposal for a 15 million coaster and other rides, only 1 ride will not return. Also due to Kings Islands longer lines higher attendance KY Kingdom will have basically better lines where KI will have 30 percent more rides, yes coasters ! Ky Kingdom has a Govenor that has said it should be demolished, and I liked the park but now I'm skeptical on even the rides that are left, and now an expanding water park. Time will tell . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccard01 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 If this proposal is not accepted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondBack27 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think Cedar Fair should buy KK! But I highly doubt that the state woud demolish the park. I mean if it opened again that would mean more money for the city of Louisville! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 wow I just read this http://www.kentuckykingdom.com/site/ and the proposal for a 15 million coaster and other rides, only 1 ride will not return. I wouldn't get too excited. This is the SAME group that was turned away before, who had questionable funding and couldn't attract private investors. They said the SAME thing last time about how they had plans for all these great new rides and plans to get the old ones working. As someone who's seen those rides first hand and has experience working on ride maintenance, I'd doubt much of anything there could still work without a major overhaul - severely affecting whether or not half those rides are worth salvaging. Even Holiday World said they brought in their "ride experts" and gave up on the idea of reopening the rides anytime soon. I sincerely doubt that this proposal will be taken anymore seriously than this groups last proposal - as nice as they are and no matter how good their intentions may seem. They're claiming they want to get a $15 Million coaster - I'd say that's just PR speak. How realistic is that? How many consultants, planners and manufacturers have they actually brought in to study such an idea? I'd wager - none. Remember, even "The Beach" claims they're going to spend 1 million on a new wave pool, four new slides and a new kids area. I think Cedar Fair should buy KK! But I highly doubt that the state woud demolish the park. I mean if it opened again that would mean more money for the city of Louisville! As stated by others before, I highly doubt Cedar Fair has any interest in Kentucky Kingdom. They're overcoming their financial difficulties with the PP purchase, seem to be on solid ground and are instituting a new culture around their new CEO. I doubt they want a once moderately successful park that's been abandoned for three years that has a few rides that have been un maintained. The city of Louisville doesn't really seem to care either way. And remember - after the Fair Board kicked Hart to the curb, they went with HW. HW fell through and the Fair Board touted all those "operators" who were lined up to make proposals. No one else did and now their back to Hart. That park has no future, no matter what PR and political games people want to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Why not just buy some land around the race track and move Kentucky Kingdom their. Has to be a lot cheaper in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondBack27 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Or...some of the rides could be restored and sent to other parks! It would be pretty cool to see t2 to be moved to KI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I rode T2 right before it closed and you really don't want that in Kings Island. It was not Son of Beast bad, but let's just say my head really hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Years 3-30, $2.5 million capex yearly. Most increased season pass sales to come from water park. $39.99 admission. $60 season passes. $1 soft drinks regardless of size. Four wooden coasters. Park opens on 2014 but ONLY if state accepts this deal by November 1. I do NOT see this happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 SOURCE: PROPOSAL IN DOUBT http://www.whas11.com/community/Fmr-Kentucky-Kingdom-owner-expected-to-reveal-reopening-plan-Monday-175229091.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 If Kentucky Kingdom does get demolished I could see a casino replace it. One way for the state to bring in some money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrfyter Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Years 3-30, $2.5 million capex yearly. Most increased season pass sales to come from water park. $39.99 admission. $60 season passes. $1 soft drinks regardless of size. Four wooden coasters. Park opens on 2014 but ONLY if state accepts this deal by November 1. I do NOT see this happening. Nothing in government ever moves fast, unless it is going to cost them tons of money or save them tons of money. SOURCE: PROPOSAL IN DOUBT http://www.whas11.co...-175229091.html The proposal is in doubt based upon news people, who obviously haven't read the proposal. Item #1, which they obviously have issues with is addressed in the proposal, which can be read in its entirety here: http://www.kentuckykingdom.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/KKRC_ResponseOct2012w.pdf look at page iv, top of the page, and I quote: "KKRC will request that the $30-million bank loan be collateralized by the land, equipment, and improvements owned by the state, as provided for in KRS 56.515 and which have been made available by the state for that purpose as stipulated in the RFP. Once KKRC finalizes deal terms with the state, it is confident that it can secure a $30-million loan with a local bank." So what the news didn't tell you is that the State suggested in their RFP that submissions can include using the rides as collateral to get a loan. So not only does state law allow it, but the state actually wants people who are interested in developing the park to use this method if needed to get financing. Leave it to another news channel to bend the facts the way they want. If it wasn't exciting nobody would watch the news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 The proposal is in doubt based upon news people, who obviously haven't read the proposal. The news station isn't saying their interpretation of the proposal makes it "in doubt," they're saying that the sources and people they've interviewed are in "doubt" about it, as noted in the article. So what the news didn't tell you is that the State suggested in their RFP that submissions can include using the rides as collateral to get a loan. So not only does state law allow it, but the state actually wants people who are interested in developing the park to use this method if needed to get financing. Leave it to another news channel to bend the facts the way they want. If it wasn't exciting nobody would watch the news! Did you read the article? While the state suggested in its RFP that collateral can be used, the other government officials who were sourced (presumably and most likely not the same ones who did the RFP study) expressed "doubt" and concern over that method. Hence the article. The news station didn't spin this to make it "exciting," they reported it pretty accurately. There's an RFP that suggested ways of financing. Ed Hart made a new proposal. Government officials expressed concern and doubt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Wow. Just wow. http://www.coaster-net.com/news/1929-proposal-deadline-for-kentucky-kingdom-expires/ A. The Fair Board has NOTHING to do with determining the future of the park at this time. B. The number of proposals received has NOT been made public. C. The one proposal Hart's group has made public clearly asserts the rides ARE salvageable and for relatively minor expense. So many errors, drastic ones, in such a short piece. Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrfyter Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Talking with people who have conducted business with large corporations within the state of KY think something else is going on. It seems that the state wants this to fail for reasons unknown to any of us. It woulod seem Ed Hart has taken the smartest path here, releasing his proposal for the public to read, that way the state cannot say that the park is junk and should be torn down, as that is clearly not the case. I suspect the fair board, and likely politicians in the state want the land for something else. Pretty sad state of affairs, when you have to try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes so you can get in the pocket of another corporation or business venture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.