Cedar Fair Discussion Thread

[Coney Islander]

Since Cedar Fair made the Paramount Parks acquisition there have definitely been major changes in all of their parks.

What overall do you think of Cedar Fair's performance?

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I personally believe Cedar Fair has done a very good job, since the initial takeover fiasco (The Crypt, employee loss of blackberries, ride names, in- park pricing, food quality.) BUT, I don't believe Cedar Fair's capital improvements are bringing out the full potential of their parks... Or even close to that...

I'll go more into depth with my thoughts later, after other members voice their views.

[The Interpreter]

That's a very good Q, if Mr. Raynor does say so!

[KIfan1980]

This is such a wide open question - a couple of quick thoughts:

Kings Island

• I think Kings Island is a better park now than it was when Cedar Fair took over - I don't think you can play the game of could another owner have made it even better. Compare then to now, and I'll take now
• There are some things that Cedar Fair has done to the park that I'm not a fan of, there were also things that Paramount/CBS/KECO/etc... did that I was not a fan of. I'm not the one in charge - I think that would be the only way to change this

Other Parks

• I'm not qualified to assess this. OK, I'm probably not qualified to assess any of it, but I really don't know enough about the other parks

Cedar Fair as a Company

• I'd guess that many unit holders are still wondering where the "exciting new growth opportunities" and "annual cash flow synergies" that were supposed to occur according to Mr. Kinzel are

Quotes can be found in This Link

[Creed Bratton]

For Kings Island

I think that the park is in better shape than it was when Paramount owned it.

I do like the fact that the park is more uniformed.

The addition of rides has been a plus.

[pkiboy]

As Much as I love Kings Island I have Noticed the Customer Service has really gone down hill. NEVER EVER tell a Park guest NO. I have been to 8 Cedar Fair Parks this year and every time ive gone into GR to Say how wonderful the park is wile wating Ive seen them treat and Say things Like Sorry or No. The Number 1 people who walk in the parks Is the guest. If we didnt buy season passes and go to Kings Island or Cedar Point. I tell you one thing Mr Kinzel and his team nor anyone who works at KI full time would have have a job. Its all about the guest. I do know Kings Islands rules and policys very well I have a current rule book and it says nothing in that book about Telling a guest NO.

I must of saw at least 3 to 4 safety violations on closing weekend at KI not saying what coasters but the park needs to remember that there Loyal Customers are the ones that keep on comming back and they need to listen to whats being herd. Now I know whos allowed to carry park raidos and who has the final word on things but Ive just noticed the attiude is I DONT CARE this past year and its really got on my last nerve. Just my 2 cents.

[RingMaster]

As Much as I love Kings Island I have Noticed the Customer Service has really gone down hill. NEVER EVER tell a Park guest NO. I have been to 8 Cedar Fair Parks this year and every time ive gone into GR to Say how wonderful the park is wile wating Ive seen them treat and Say things Like Sorry or No. The Number 1 people who walk in the parks Is the guest. If we didnt buy season passes and go to Kings Island or Cedar Point. I tell you one thing Mr Kinzel and his team nor anyone who works at KI full time would have have a job. Its all about the guest. I do know Kings Islands rules and policys very well I have a current rule book and it says nothing in that book about Telling a guest NO.

"Don't say I don't know, say I'll find out..." Or something of that nature.

I guess the one thing I'm not particularly fond of is the way Haunt is treated (big surprise there). Aside from a few key things that I absolutely love in the four years it's been Haunt (more roaming monsters, dark comedy, and Urgent Scare), it's essentially FearFest with more blood and gore thrown in, especially now that I've had the opportunity to finally go out and see other people's haunts. I see how much bigger, better, and more innovative theirs are and how basic, cheap, and downright unimaginative ours are. I'm glad that our Haunt made the top five on Amusement Today's list of best haunted events, but only partly, simply because I see so many missed opportunities to really wow guests in terms of the way mazes are designed, and instead, go for more blood, gore, and shock value with marketing. Yes, it gets people to come to the park, but they've already seen everything there is available. People with a season pass go to the Haunt, see what's new, then go spend their money at another haunted event that actually bothers to change up their routine every year. I know I'll be spending a heck of a lot more time at other peoples' haunts than at Kings Island if there isn't a massive overhaul done in the next few years.

[CedarPointer]

Perhaps sometimes nobody would have to say they didn't know had the guest looked at a map or signs...

[The Interpreter]

But I thought employees were there to, among other things, ASSIST guests...

[Pillsberry123]

Rules are rules, and rules are posted before you enter the park. If you don't follow these rules, of course they are going to tell you. If something goes wrong, the park could be held accountable if they DIDN'T tell a guest "No, I'm sorry but you can't do that." There's a reason these rules are there, and there's a reason they enforce them.

As for Cedar Fair, I think they've cleaned up the park very well so far, and I like the way that they've delt with the park a section at a time. Rivertown looks great, as does Planet Snoopy. I'm really looking forward to next year to see what Coney Mall will look like. They're improving on our flats, they've given us a signature steel coaster, and they've improved on ride capacity. The landscaping looks great, the park's been clean, ride maintenance seems to be good on most of the more popular rides, and they seem to know what they're doing when training their employees.

Day to day operations in the park are top-notch, and I think that the park is heading in the right direction.

[AZ Kinda Guy]

Internally, the place is a mess and it shows out in the park.

[pkiboy]

Internally, the place is a mess and it shows out in the park.

And upper mangement doenst do anything (At KI that is). You be surprised what You see at Cedar Point. Ive even seen Kinzel put a park guest in there place. Everytime I go to Cedar Point He is by himself not with a clan like at KI.

[Browntggrr]

The park has rebounded nicely since the aquisition.

Customer service is better, as is the overall park atmosphere.

The rides & cleanliness are also certainly MUCH better.

Now they need to work on some of the little things, especially pricing- but every entertainment venue needs to do that.

[Delirium13]

From how I see it, Cedar Fair is starting to get a better feel of the park, and I have noticed general improvements throughout. I think their neglect for the "little things", such as water being off in the Tower Gardens, Glockenspiel Clock and Floral clock not functioning, International Street music, etc. has hurt the atmosphere a little bit, but as I said, it seemed there was even improvement in some areas of that later on in the this past season.

I am anxious to see how the Coney Mall "makeover" ends up looking, as well as how the whole WindSeeker/Action Theater area ends up looking.

I think Cedar Fair has done a great job on keeping the park clean, an excellent job landscaping, Firehawk and Diamondback are great additions to the park, Planet Snoopy looks great and so does Rivertown (I miss Swan Lake though). Another thing I am a big fan of is that none of their ride additions, so far, have involved removing another ride.

Interested to see what the future holds, and if Cedar Fair is still in charge in 2012 for Kings Island's 40th, I hope they've got something great planned and that it's not ignored like the 35th.

[Creed Bratton]

Sometimes guests do need to hear "No". If an employee tells a guest No it's probably for good cause....and if they do they need to do it in a nice manor. Some do, some don't.

[The Interpreter]

Sometimes guests do need to hear "No". If an employee tells a guest No it's probably for good cause....and if they do they need to do it in a nice manor. Some do, some don't.

(emphasis added)

If I am going to be told no, I for one, prefer that it happen in a nice English mansion house, as opposed to being told no, you can't come in, by the landed offspring of the Chairman/CEO (whose estate is located at the company's headquarters and crown jewel)!

Terp, who just HAD to

(and who still thinks that is an excellent example of Cedar Fair's 'service,': a. it took over 20 minutes, b. there was no satisfactory resolution or even an apology, c. a relatively high ranking official of another park in the chain tried to tell some here that said event never happened as the admissions system did not show I was at the southern park that Sunday (duh!), and d. a nice letter to company headquarters (and said Chairman/CEO) was never even acknowledged, much less answered (perhaps blood is thicker than platinum).

[XGatorHead 8904]

Sorry pkiboy, I disagree with you. In my tenure at the park I've told plenty of guests "no". Requests such as "I've used my season pass four times but I'm moving out of state, can I get a refund?" and "But my friend said I could use her pass because nobody looks at the pictures! Can't you just let me in this one time?" deserve a "no" answer. Sure, there are a multitude of situations that a compromise can and should be reached, but to make a blanket statement like "NEVER EVER tell a Park guest NO" is not entirely a good policy. There are just as many situations where "no" is the correct response as working something out is the correct response.

[tlvtr]

My situation is different from others here (never had a platinum pass, never had an opportunity to get turned away unfairly), but the biggest annoyances for me during my visits to KI have come from other guests. Line-cutting, smoking in crowded lines, trying to sneak small children on rides that they are clearly too short for, groups splitting up to each sit in their own car on a ride, or spitting off tall rides (one time hitting my wife on the head!) makes me wish that there were more employees around to tell people NO. I personally think the cliche "the customer is always right" is wrong and has led to way too many people feeling overly entitled (I'm not applying this criticism to the OP though).

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to emphasize intense politeness while declining a guests request, but ultimately the policy will be dictated by the constructs of capitalism. Until attendance suffers because of complaints about park staff, there is no reason to address it. For instance, one night I was catching a couple last minute rides on Diamondback. It was right at closing time and my train pulls into the station. The gates open up and people start to climb on for one final ride, but no one was in my lane. They were obviously going to run the train again, but when i turned to a ride-op and asked if I could stay on he tersely told me no and motioned for me to move. He probably was tired and wanted to hurry and leave, but there was no reason for him to be so rude to me. HOWEVER, the benefits of attending the park far outweigh any occasional rudeness from an employee, so I keep returning and will be renewing my season pass this year. Basically, every time you renew your pass or someone comes back for a repeat visit, they are confirming that the benefits outweigh any drawbacks.

Conversely, I used to use Tmobile for my cell phone, but became so fed up with their customer support I switched to AT&T, even though I'm paying more money now (not that AT&T is a shining beacon of customer service, but not as bad as my experience with Tmobile).

If there was a big drop off in attendance or season pass sales and a survey showed that rude employees was a big factor in this, there would certainly be changes made to employee policy. But any complaint coming from a season pass holder that has every intention on renewing their pass will be met with minor concern. I'm not saying that is right, but there is no economic reason to worry if you are still going to give them the same amount of money regardless. Money is all that ultimately matters.

[The Interpreter]

Well stated....and that is exactly why I will NOT go back to Knott's Berry Farm unless and until they rescind their ridiculous policy about spectacles. Won't do it.

[standbyme]

...but ultimately the policy will be dictated by the constructs of capitalism.

A very sad (but true) statement.

[CedarPointer]

Rude guests tend to cause rude employees. Treat others how you want to be treated- if you would like, for example, the food cashiers to be nicer, try not DEMANDING a cup of water, but politely asking for it. It can make a big difference.

[Avatar]

Customers come in all shapes and sizes, I mean really they are short, tall, skinny, large, very attractive but ugly inside or visa versa or even many of the choices listed or even to include many I have not. Now understand that each and everyone of those customers have personalities that range the same myriad of choices as their physical attributes. This Olio mix equals 1 customer. A customer may order a Coke, another customer a Sprite, yet other customers may order Orange Soda.

So with all these customers (2,10, 100, 1000's ect…) having various personalities and physical attributes they are in the end considered "a customer".

Every customer should in the beginning be considered a customer and an opportunity to please. Granted some are easier than others but regardless the opportunity exist with each and everyone. Some are simple they politely ask for a soda choice and promptly pay with money in hand. While others maybe more curt but none the less they may offer a greater opportunity to please. They may be curt because of personality, something someone said, an incident of some sort. This type of customer can cause other customers, family, friends or park employees to feel his/her negativity So if/when the customer orders a drink in a curt way, the vendor just pleasantly smiles and serves the customer the same way as any other customer he may have just defused a less than desirable customer. In return the customer may realize his attitude and become more pleasant to be around or his friend/family may mention something to them in the way he/she treated the vendor. But make no mistake if the vendor in any way showed curtness back in body language or verbally that can easily escalate the situation into a very unpleasant experience for everyone and I do mean other park guest to park management. Plus most likely the friends/family of the curt customer now will defend their friend/family member.

So to boil this all down it is almost always better to treat unruly customers the same as other customers because if you do you are creating a situation for a far better outcome to occur and that is an opportunity every employee should strive to achieve.

Notice I did not mention anything here about being right or justified but rather about creating a opportunity to put in motion a more positive outcome for everyone involved. For those who can learn to have patients in ways to create positive opportunities versus the natural human instinct of being right and justified will find that trait will serve them well in life including school/work place environment and at home.

[lance99]

This goes out to terpy as well as others. WE (the employees) are there to assist guests "with anything" they may need. I cannot speak for GR as I am not part of their team but I have worked at KI for going on 6 seasons and have never once had a guest say to me personally that they were not satisfied. I will admit that there may be more that could be done in other departments to improve a guests stay, but, that is not for me to adress or debate.

Thank you.

Lance Stevenson

[LongliveKingsCobra]

They may of not said it straight to your face, but they might have been unhappy. People are not as confrentational as people would think.

Thank you,

Long Live Kings Cobra.

[pcc]

My 2¢ probably doesn't amount to a hill of beans...but, every trip we have taken to KI over the past few years has been great, as far as employee/customer relations goes. Any time I've asked for water, I've been greeted with a smile. Ride ops always chit chat with my kids, especially if they know it's their first time on a large ride. Three particular interactions stick out in my mind:

1. We were getting ice cream in Planet Snoopy. My cone was a bit crooked. I did not complain, since it was going to be eaten pretty fast..what was the big deal? Well, the woman at the stand apologized profusely. I kept telling her it was ok. She gave us another large cone for free. No complaints were made from us, she just wanted everything to be 'just so'. That made the kids particularly happy.

2. We were having lunch once at Jukebox Diner. My kids had an oreo milkshake. My daughter accidentally knocked it over on herself. No less than FOUR employees from the diner came out with wet and dry rags to clean her off. I told them they did not have to do that, but they insisted. And they did so until no chocolate remained. They didn't want her clothes to stain. (My daughter STILL talks about how nice they were to her)

3. My husband and I were getting some Chick-Fil-A during Haunt. We waited 30 minutes for our food. The employees noticed us still standing there, then realized they had given our food to someone else. We received our food AND a refund. We just thought a fryer was down or something.

Perhaps not making a stink helps, but the employees I have encountered have gone above and beyond to make sure we are happy. You do not see that at every park. This is one of many reasons why I love KI.

[Snowman]

Never say no???

One day at the Diamondback entrance while us addicts were doing the exit to entrance runaround, there was a very large guy in a wheelchair with his family complaining to a ride op about not being able to ride. After another runaround lap they were still there raising HELL this time to a manager, I slowed down out of car wreck curiosity and I noticed this mental midget only had ONE leg! Not amputated at the knee, but gone at the hip. The manager was professionally explaining and showing this guy the seats out front and the way you are secured simply would not hold him in and he could fly out AND DIE!!!

For some inexplicable reason he and his family didn't care, and I quote, "By God, we're gonna ride it anyway"

I have nothing but complete respect for the ride ops and managers who have to deal with people like that on a daily basis!

You guys are great, and please, if no one is in line for my DB seat, don't make me go around! It just seems kinda silly. Plus your per train numbers go down.

[TH13TEEN]

Well stated....and that is exactly why I will NOT go back to Knott's Berry Farm unless and until they rescind their ridiculous policy about spectacles. Won't do it.

Terpy... this makes me sad...

[KIfan73]

On the subject of guest behavior/expectations...

I am a season pass holder, and normally, visit the park by myself. Given this, I simply wake up one morning, decide to visit the park, and take off. No big deal. Since I have a gold pass, each visit I make technically makes each visit cheaper and cheaper. If I paid $70 for a pass, and visit even three times, my entry price (including parking) has been $23.33 per visit. I can barely go out and eat for that much. Those of you that visit many, many times in a season, your "cost per trip" would be much, much lower than that. The point of all of this, is that I'm probably not going to get upset about something small like a ride being down, someone incompetent at a food stand, etc.

Now, let's look at somewhat the opposite of the spectrum. Let's say a family of five have made their one trip to KI, maybe only once every few years. They've probably gotten up very early and have had to get kids ready, go out and eat, etc. Often these people get their tickets at the front gate, and have shelled out $10 for parking. Just to get into the gate they've already laid down possibly $200. Just inside the gate, they may need to rent a stroller or two (don't even know what those cost now). On top of what they've just paid, they're also wanting their family to have a good time, and don't want let down. Of course, in this situation they're not going to let anything "go". Ride down? Major hassle, they might have just drug their whole family across the whole park (and yes, were probably too busy with the kids to read the sign out front). Person at the blue ice cream stand rude? Another major hassle. They're as much a part of the kids' entertainment as the rides are.

Now, for someone like me, the cost for a trip to the park probably totals out under $50 (gas, food, maybe even a souvenir). The family's trip could easily be several hundred dollars just for the day. I know that if I was in the latter category, I would be raising much more heck with the park than I do now.

[Blackie]

It's not only OK, but necessary to say no to a guest. Snowman's story is a great example of that. I don't think that guest should be told no as long as the request isn't unreasonable. There are alot of people that visit these parks either over or undermedicated.

To answer the original question: I am thrilled that CF bought KI. I am very impressed with what they are doing. I've been a regular guest at the park since 1979 at the age of three. I didn't like Paramount at all. They removed alot of good rides and operations were the worst I have ever seen. I hold Taft/KEC in much higher regard.