CoastersRZ Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/02/08/quadriplegic-disneyland-not-ready-to-help-disabled-in-emergencies/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braves0511 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I feel for the guy. 40 minutes is a long time to be stuck on a ride, especially with a condition like that. He has a point in the fact there probably should have been someone with him, unless it wasn't safe for them to be there, but I wouldn't go as far as a lawsuit. I'm always struck how I could send train after train of seemingly "normal" people, but the one that stops on the lift, usually at the very top, always had someone with special needs of some sort. Not that there's anything wrong with that, the irony was just too much. If I had a nickel for every time I stood on a lift this summer being berated by someone who's friend was freaking out about being stuck, and me not being able to do anything about it..I would probably be able to trade them in for a quarter or two, and then Dick Kinzel would take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 The thing is, in the video, he didn`t seem to be freaking out that much. Its not like they were stuck in the sun and he was dehydrating. While his condition may be very real, I still find it odd that he is just now filing this. I think that there should have been cast members with him the entire time of the breakdown. Isn`t that standard procedure at KI that ride operators will go and talk with guests when a ride goes down, only leaving when they are trying to re-start the ride? Since he was in a wheel chair, it is hard to evacuate him safely from the ride when the boats are not in the station. So, had they tried to evacuate him from the ride, and he fallen or gotten hurt, would he have sued Disney then? I believe he would have. Most things that predate the ADA are grandfathered in. There is also the term 'normal use' which applies here. The boats, as I understand it, have been retrofitted to allow wheel chairs to be rolled right onto the boat. Under normal use, there is no need to disembark anywhere other than in the station. Disney has obviously taken great strides to make its attractions enjoyable by guests of all sizes and even those with disabilities. (How many rides at KI can guests roll their wheel chair onto?) Most of these changes originated, in some form from the ADA. There is actually a new set of ADA design guidelines that will be phased into building construction (with some changes made to restrooms and clearances) with buildings taking occupancy by March of 2012 I believe. Existing buildings only have to be brought into compliance if they are undergoing renovations. And with the new ADA design guidelines, some things that used to be considered accessible, may not longer meet the new criteria. On the subject of rides being accessible, there are a few things which glaringly pose issues with ADA in regards to amusement parks and rides. Stand up coasters anyone? Or what about all the Round Up rides? (I actually have seen a guy in a wheel chair at Coney park his chair outside Round Up, and proceed to ride the ride. And then there are rides like the Giant Slide at Coney which utilize stairs to get to the top, but no elevator is provided. Or how many water slides have you seen that feature both a set of stairs and an elevator to take disabled guests to the top? I can`t think of very many water slides which are accessible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TombraiderTy Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I have nothing against people with disabilities or those who have to utilize wheelchairs for whatever reason. However, I often question how safe it is for them to be riding a roller coaster or amusement ride in the first place. I'm not trying to be their doctor or parent or whomever, dictating what is safe for them, but others can be put at risk in a situation like this when a handicapped individual is present. Allow me to explain a bit further. Imagine being a Kings Island employee working Diamondback. You just loaded a handicapped guest onto the ride vehicle. This guest is not ambulatory and has no control over the lower half of his body. He's helped into his seat by an aide who, after assisting him, rolls the guest's wheelchair to the exit and waits there as the ride begins. Everything's working great at first- the train leaves the station, climbs the lift, and plunges down the massive drop. It's quickly speeding over hills and turns. It climbs up the large helix and into the mid-course brake run... and it stops. Within a matter of minutes, employees and managers have climbed the spiraling steps of DBack's MCBR to talk to the stuck guests. Maintenance is unable to get the train rolling quickly and there's an oncoming storm, resulting in only one option- evacuating all the riders. This would be simple enough in a standard evacuation- row by row or car by car, guests would be assisted out of their seats and down the steps to the ground below. But this isn't a standard evacuation- there's a handicapped on the train who's unable to walk and whose aide is across Rivertown. As a Kings Island employee, how are you supposed to respond to this situation? Are you expected to carry the guest all the way down these steps? Imagine how much could go wrong... simply tripping or losing your grip would result in a catastrophic disaster. And the lawsuits that could result from such accident. Sadly, this tricky situation is present with practically every Kings Island ride. If a non-ambulatory guest were to get stuck on The Beast, Adventure Express, Racer, Vortex or most any other roller coaster (as well as various other rides), there's no safe way to evacuate them. I don't believe disabled guests should be discriminated from having fun, but when said fun can't be completed safely, is such fun worth it? Just my take on it, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berlingkj Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 If his particular problem could be set off by stress, I think It's a Small World was an incredibly awful choice in rides. And I believe at Coney we technically aren't supposed to lift a guest in or out of the ride, although it happens all the time with the little kids. The fact that this guy has a problem that can be set off by stress is the reason he should not have ridden, not because he's in a wheelchair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I see physically disabled people riding coasters all the time at KI and it seems like the park has never had problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 You are correct. We are not supposed to lift people out of wheel chairs at Coney to assist them on or off of the ride. Technically, the most we can do is offer them a hand (I`ve done this numerous times at the Ferris Wheel, for people who have a hard time walking up steps, whether it be because of age, a cast, or other ailment). Is that you Kevin? And I agree with you. If this guy knew about this problem, which can be triggered by stress, why was he riding in the first place. There are warning signs at every attraction, and I`m fairly confident that most of them recommend that guests with prior medical conditions that may be aggravated by the ride, refrain from riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TombraiderTy Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I see physically disabled people riding coasters all the time at KI and it seems like the park has never had problems. Break-downs, let alone evacuations, aren't the most common. Simultaneously, only a tiny fraction of riders have disabilities or require a wheel chair. Therefore, the odds that a handicapped guest will be needed to be evacuated from a roller coaster aren't too big. However, they are still present, and should such a situation ever present itself, it could prove a nightmare. Imagine a group of employees having to carry a non-ambulatory man down Diamondback's steps? Or, in a situation where neither Eiffel Tower elevator worked, down 300-feet of steps? Just because it doesn't seem to have happened before, or you haven't seen such a case, doesn't mean it can't and won't happen eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'd expect KI to have a plan for such a circumstance. I'd also expect the plan to involve a trained crew (not whatever ride op happens to be on duty) taking the responsibility for safely evacuating the disabled person. Edit - note that I'd expect said disabled person to recognize reality that their evacuation might take longer. Sorry, but that is the reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 At least as far as inclement weather is concerned, the park seems to be very responsible in closing down rides way befor a storm hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillsberry123 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Rides are machines, and machines break down. A Small World isn't an intense ride, so it's not like a roller coaster train was stuck at the top of a hill or a brake run. This was an inconvenience more than anything. If you aren't satisfied with how a park handled the situation, you report it to customer service, ask for a refund, or spread your story to let others know. You don't sue, and the fact that it's taken him all this time to find someone to take his case should be a hint. Compare this to something at Kings Island. One day we were stuck on the brake run on The Beast for 15-20 minutes. We didn't even complain. Heck, you could compare sitting on a ride for 40 minutes to sitting in line for a ride for 40 minutes. We've all done that. Disability doesn't equal entitlement. These things happen, and if you aren't prepared then don't ride. Also, if his condition is triggered by stress, then what is he doing at a theme park in the first place? As I said, I don't see the difference between sitting on this ride for 40 minutes and sitting in line for 40 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 This guy has full rights to sue. You're not a jury and thank god for that. By the way some of you are posting about stress and theme parks, using that logic seems like every time you visit a theme park it would be stressful and not fun. I can count on one 2 fingers how many times I've visited a theme park its been stressful/Conflicted. Maybe he was having trouble finding attorney because of how much he can pay? We don't know what caused the delayed filing. Maybe he wanted to make sure he went over Disney policy and made sure he had enough money to go through the whole trial? Maybe he was making sure he was in the right to file such suit against Disney. The article/He claims that he suffered dysreflexia. Did you know that could of led to seizures, stroke, and even death? I mean would you be posting the same crap you're posting now if the man died? Oh I'm sure it would be okay to sue if he would of died, makes perfect sense, but god forbid that he lives and still sues? Maybe some of you should become quadriplegic and be told some of the things you're posting. See how you like it then? I bet you guys would still ride your favorite rides.... Also another note about dysreflexia, did you know this can also occur when the bladder is even slighty overfull? it can occur so easily through daily activities. If the man didn't file suit do you think the policy would of changed? Maybe you should read and think about what you're posting before you actually click post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berlingkj Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Somebody has access to Wikipedia... Seriously though, anyone can sue for anything. And I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that he's suing Disney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berlingkj Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 And this is Kevin, Robbie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Awwww.... He had to sit in a boat in that scary small world ride.... And those big bad park workers didn't even hold his little hand or kiss his little cheek..... Poor baby! No wonder it took him almost two years to find a lawyer who was willing to file a frivolous lawsuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 With the risk of sounding unsympatetic for his condition; lawsuits like this are what cause parks to not allow guests with disabilities on rides. Rides breakdown all the time. It sucks when they do, but it happens. If his condition was so severe that sitting in a boat out of the weather for 40 minutes has the potential of causing death, he should have had the sense of not going on the ride. No park employee can determine if a rider in a wheelchair has such a severe pre-existing condition that a ride breakdown has the potential of causing death. What would happen if this same person was in a car that spun off the road into a snowbank? It would probably take 40+ minutes for a rescue crew/ towtruck to assist him. Would he than sue the: car manufacturer, road crews, and mother nature? Disney should be prasied just for assisting riders like this onto their rides. Lawsuits like this give parks an unjustifyable black eye. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Gibson Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I have a lot of sympathy for people who can't walk. I'm only implying that his situation would totally suck and I would speak kindly. We have no idea what that situation was like for him or how traumatic it really was so don't go there people. I understand if you disagree with his actions (I do) but don't slander him on the few facts we have. I think his physical limitations are to blame not Disney. You just can;t prepare for everything. I've been in a wheelchair for 10 weeks now so I've kinda got the insider perspective and it is frustrating when places aren't handicap accessible. However, Disney went pretty far out of their way to modify the ride to accommodate him. Could they really prepare for everything. The bottom line: disabilities will stop you from being able to do everything you want to and it's just not practical to expect to do everything an able bodied person can. It sucks but it's true. No way can I ride a standup coaster this year. I don't think Raptor is gonna happen and I don't think there is anything CF can or should do about it. David, hoping to be out of the wheelchair before April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketingExpress Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Every ride has safety guidelines which include medical conditions not recommended to ride a particular ride. I’d be interested to know if this man’s condition falls under any of those categories and thus the man would have been riding at his own risk. Could this incident have been handled better…absolutely. Someone should have stayed with or near the two left on the ride to make sure everything was ok until they were ready to try to start up the ride again. When you add water to any attraction it creates a whole new set of problems when it comes to evacuating a ride. None of us know the reasoning behind the decisions made that day, but I’m sure the safety for the guests and the employees was at the top of the priority list. Whenever a ride vehicle stops somewhere other than the station, the safest place for a guest to be is in the ride vehicle (except in extenuating circumstances). If the “cast members” could have gotten this gentleman out safely, I have no doubt they would have, but they made the best decision they could given the situation. I Keep in mind that this building was probably built well before the ADA compliance guidelines went into effect. As others have mentioned, a building constructed before this time would not be subject to update their building to abide by the code unless a renovation or re-building was done. I fear the final outcome of this incident could impact the future design of all amusement park rides. Not only would catwalks need to be built wide enough for a wheel chair but if a cat walk were above ground level, there would need to be some sort of elevator or lift to get down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I fear the final outcome of this incident could impact the future design of all amusement park rides. Not only would catwalks need to be built wide enough for a wheel chair but if a cat walk were above ground level, there would need to be some sort of elevator or lift to get down. Or, more and more rides will not accomodate handicap guests at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketingExpress Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 ^Very true which will be very unpopular amongst disabled guests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 ^ It would be terrible for diabled guests, but, from a park's "c.y.a" point of view, their hands are becoming more and more tied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Gibson Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 ^ A sad reality in many businesses. Even as a school administrator I can't even transport a student because of liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketingExpress Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 If the man didn't file suit do you think the policy would of changed? Maybe you should read and think about what you're posting before you actually click post. To what specific Disney policy are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillsberry123 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 By the way some of you are posting about stress and theme parks, using that logic seems like every time you visit a theme park it would be stressful and not fun. If sitting in a boat for 40 minutes is stressful, then how is that any different than sitting in line for 40 minutes. How is one stressful and not the other? The article/He claims that he suffered dysreflexia. Did you know that could of led to seizures, stroke, and even death? I mean would you be posting the same crap you're posting now if the man died? Oh I'm sure it would be okay to sue if he would of died, makes perfect sense, but god forbid that he lives and still sues? If his condition was deadly, then what was he doing on an ride? All rides have warning signs that explain all of the dangers. What about the teenager who died a few years ago on the Rock and Rollercoaster at MGM studios. He died because he had a pre-existing condition. Not the parks fault. Also another note about dysreflexia, did you know this can also occur when the bladder is even slighty overfull? it can occur so easily through daily activities. So there's no way to tell if it would have happened anyway... Maybe you should read and think about what you're posting before you actually click post. We do. Believe it or not, there's people who disagree with you. Welcome to real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Sometimes a park cannot win. Not allowing access to a disabled patron can result in a lawsuit. Allowing access, then something happens...can result in a lawsuit. Not assisting guests can result in a lawsuit. Assisting them, them something unexpected happens, can result in a lawsuit. Win the lawsuit? Still expended large sums of money and time...and is that really a win? And sometimes insurers settle cases the policyholder really wishes they would not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I have nothing against people with disabilities or those who have to utilize wheelchairs for whatever reason. However, I often question how safe it is for them to be riding a roller coaster or amusement ride in the first place. I'm not trying to be their doctor or parent or whomever, dictating what is safe for them, but others can be put at risk in a situation like this when a handicapped individual is present. Allow me to explain a bit further. Imagine being a Kings Island employee working Diamondback. You just loaded a handicapped guest onto the ride vehicle. This guest is not ambulatory and has no control over the lower half of his body. He's helped into his seat by an aide who, after assisting him, rolls the guest's wheelchair to the exit and waits there as the ride begins. Everything's working great at first- the train leaves the station, climbs the lift, and plunges down the massive drop. It's quickly speeding over hills and turns. It climbs up the large helix and into the mid-course brake run... and it stops. Within a matter of minutes, employees and managers have climbed the spiraling steps of DBack's MCBR to talk to the stuck guests. Maintenance is unable to get the train rolling quickly and there's an oncoming storm, resulting in only one option- evacuating all the riders. This would be simple enough in a standard evacuation- row by row or car by car, guests would be assisted out of their seats and down the steps to the ground below. But this isn't a standard evacuation- there's a handicapped on the train who's unable to walk and whose aide is across Rivertown. As a Kings Island employee, how are you supposed to respond to this situation? Are you expected to carry the guest all the way down these steps? Imagine how much could go wrong... simply tripping or losing your grip would result in a catastrophic disaster. And the lawsuits that could result from such accident. Sadly, this tricky situation is present with practically every Kings Island ride. If a non-ambulatory guest were to get stuck on The Beast, Adventure Express, Racer, Vortex or most any other roller coaster (as well as various other rides), there's no safe way to evacuate them. I don't believe disabled guests should be discriminated from having fun, but when said fun can't be completed safely, is such fun worth it? Just my take on it, anyway. This is a good point, and one I have not considered. I don't know if any park has a plan in place for that scenario. Then if the park denied the person to board, then they get sued. Lawsuits like this are what get parks shut down. There's a point where its no longer worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldschool75 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 This guy has full rights to sue. You're not a jury and thank god for that. By the way some of you are posting about stress and theme parks, using that logic seems like every time you visit a theme park it would be stressful and not fun. I can count on one 2 fingers how many times I've visited a theme park its been stressful/Conflicted. Maybe he was having trouble finding attorney because of how much he can pay? We don't know what caused the delayed filing. Maybe he wanted to make sure he went over Disney policy and made sure he had enough money to go through the whole trial? Maybe he was making sure he was in the right to file such suit against Disney. The article/He claims that he suffered dysreflexia. Did you know that could of led to seizures, stroke, and even death? I mean would you be posting the same crap you're posting now if the man died? Oh I'm sure it would be okay to sue if he would of died, makes perfect sense, but god forbid that he lives and still sues? Maybe some of you should become quadriplegic and be told some of the things you're posting. See how you like it then? I bet you guys would still ride your favorite rides.... Also another note about dysreflexia, did you know this can also occur when the bladder is even slighty overfull? it can occur so easily through daily activities. If the man didn't file suit do you think the policy would of changed? Maybe you should read and think about what you're posting before you actually click post. If his condition is this fragile maybe he shouldn't put himself in a possible position to where his health could be at risk. Just as an example, my younger brother has a heart condition, he loves roller coasters; but he doesn't ride them because he knows there is a chance that riding the coaster could trigger his heart to act up or even kill him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Gibson Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 ^ I agree completely. Unfortunately I have a broken leg and, with as much as I love Raptor, I don't know if I'll even try it this year. That is in no way the fault of the park. It does suck though and I don't blame him for being upset, I just blame him for placing blame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It does suck though and I don't blame him for being upset, I just blame him for placing blame... This is where my opinion will not be a popular one... I do blame him for the lawsuit and for being upset. No one knows a guest's condition better than the guest himself. Since his condition is now so severe, he should have more common sense than to put himself in a potential life-threatening position. Yes, the ride broke down. Yes, guests were being removed from other boats. The ride breaking down for 40 minutes is not a serious enough emergency to extract him from the boat. Disney was put in a no-win situation. A cast member could have stayed with the boat the whole time. And during that time, the guest could have been getting more and more upset that he was still sitting there. I have seen numerous guests completely lose it when they don't get their way. Since this guest could potentially die with the notion of being upest, a cast member sitting there could make the situation worse. Disney could have moved the guest themselves, which would certainly put themselves in the liability window if he was dropped or not carried correctly. But Disney took the lesser of the evils, and kept the guest in the boat for 40 minutes. This is not an exceptional amount of time. If it was 2+ hours, then I could see his point. But for 40 minutes? That is a pathetic amount of time to be so angry to file a lawsuit. I do find the article somewhat amusing. The guest complains that a cast member did not come and talk to them but still makes this statement: Disney cast members helped Martinez onto the ride, but told him they couldn’t help him out from where the ride stopped.“No one came to us, which I felt was another potential deadly situation,” Martinez said. “I told my wife, I said,’ they want us to roll to first aid? I don’t think we’re gonna make it.’” Added bold for emphasis. If no cast member came up to them, how did he know they were not going to help him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XGatorHead 8904 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Man wins $8,000 in damages, judge rules that Disneyland did not notify disabled riders that if "it's a small world" broke down, they could be trapped. http://www.newser.com/story/165143/man-trapped-on-small-world-ride-wins-payout.html and http://blog.sfgate.com/crime/2013/03/26/man-trapped-in-its-a-small-world-wins-suit/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.