Erosarrow05 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Dear RingMaster, My six year old godson, Jacob, is that child who does not get "absolutely giddy with ADHD-and-caffeine-fueled excitement"... In fact, when presented with the question "do you want to go see the dinosaurs? His response was (after going up to it and placing his hand on it)... "You can tell the big sponge robot isn't real! Its just like a giant stuffed animal that jerks"... To say he could have cared less was an understatement... Later... when informed that Spongebob was gone and replaced with more dinosaurs... He said... "that is so dumb... I don't care about dinosaurs, I like Spongebob" Coming from the child who "needs" everything - I couldn't help but laugh with his mother as we walked on by the dinosaurs... I'll be more than happy to save my money, as will his mother, and save it on buying a 14 dollar cheese coney... And truthfully... if we wanted to see animatronic dinosaurs, we'd go hop in a yellow raft and float around a ride over at IoA... Sincerely, Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjkjkj Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 ^ There are exceptions to everything. I am sure there were also kids that didn't like spongebob either. You can't please everybody. Overall, I have seen a lot of excited kids looking at the dinosaur by the fountain, getting pictures with the one by The Great Pumpkin Coaster, and excitedly jumping up and down watching the one in the glass display at the front gates, and the one by the entrance to DA!. Kids are going to love this, it's something different other than a ride, and it's something everybody can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erosarrow05 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 They might physically be able to do it, but "can" they afford it? Will they want to? Is the value there? I guess Im just having a hard time wrapping my head around this attraction having an additional cost. btw... I was just stating I happened to know one six year old boy who could care less about the giant foam dinosaurs... not the "lots" of excited kids you've witnessed. I guess one could argue there have been lots of kids walk right by the foam dinos and not blink twice... It'll be interesting to see how long the dinosaurs stay at Kings Island... When you pay to ride slingshot, gokarts, ripcord, skyscraper, DA - youre paying for that experience, the question becomes - "is DA such a thrilling experience it will warrant repeat buys from park guests like the other upcharge attractions do?" To me, the answer is no... but then again, I wouldn't pay to walk through it once, then again - thats my opinion and there are plenty of others who probably feel DA is the most exciting attraction the park has to offer and will buy tickets to it every visit this year. ... Time will tell :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Here's my layman's interpretation: I think that the re-"ride"-ability of this attraction is what's most questionable. Sure it'll be fun. I know that I will certainly pay the extra $5.00 once. But once is all I can imagine. I live in Northeast Ohio. A trip to Kings Island, for me, requires a four hour drive and two nights in a hotel. That also means I can't go home and have dinner, so that's a lot of meals to pay for even if it's fast food... Because of my addiction to parks, three or four of my closest friends get Platinum Passes with me. So for a group of us to visit Kings Island is a substantial investment (especially early on in the season when we're all still recuperating from the $165.00 pass). While I will certainly talk them into visiting Dinosaurs Alive once just to say we had the experience, I can tell you for a fact that no matter how fantastic it is, it won't warrant the upcharge each and every time we visit. And that sort of leads into the other problem I have with this, which I have expressed before: for rides like Slingshot or Xtreme Skyflier or Thunder Alley, there must be some mechanism for keeping demand down. As an included attraction at a park the size of Kings Island, those small capacity rides require a charge (or a lottery, or some other form of reducing the ridership to maximize profit and maintain steady operation). That's why the price fluctuates... Supply and demand... If the demand for Slingshot is high, the price is $25.00 per person to maintain a crowd of size x. When there aren't that many people interested, it can be lowered as low as $5.00 to try to reach that same crowd size. That price revolves around a maintained, steady operation that balances the cost and the revenue. But Dinosaurs Alive is not limited by capacity in the same way as Slingshot. And in fact, Dinosaurs Alive will operate whether there are fifty or five hundred visitors at any given time. That being said, it would seem that the upcharge in this case is not a limiting agent, but a way to earn back money from what was likely a large investment (and admittedly, probably a mechanism with which to weed out certain park guests from coming into close contact with expensive animatronics). But that doesn't mean the price shouldn't fluctuate with interest like it does on those other upcharge rides... That is, when the initial shock is over and fewer people are interested, I hope Kings Island has the intelligence to lower the admission charge. And since the "supply" is fixed here (again, 50 or 500, the dinosaurs will use the same electricity and cost the same initial investment), a price decrease would theoretically attract more people without adding any additional cost to the park (except perhaps a few more hours on payroll here and there). $5.00 and 100 people an hour = $500.00 an hour. $2.50 and 300 people an hour = $750.00 an hour... Since it doesn't make a whole lot of difference to the park whether there are 100 or 300 people in the attraction, I hope they have the foresight to recognize when visitorship is down and to do some research to decide the optimal strategy to keep revenue up... Then again, this is the company that doesn't realize that if they cut food prices in half, three times as many people would buy the food... And based on the quality of food (and thus assuming its price to the park in bulk), I can only imagine that that would result in increased revenue and income. Same thing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vortexfan Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Then again, this is the company that doesn't realize that if they cut food prices in half, three times as many people would buy the food... And based on the quality of food (and thus assuming its price to the park in bulk), I can only imagine that that would result in increased revenue and income. Same thing here. The problem is, you're making grand assumptions based on no solid evidence whatsoever. Cutting the food prices in half means three times as many people would buy the food? Really? If it were that easy, it would have been done already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Then again, this is the company that doesn't realize that if they cut food prices in half, three times as many people would buy the food... And based on the quality of food (and thus assuming its price to the park in bulk), I can only imagine that that would result in increased revenue and income. Same thing here. The problem is, you're making grand assumptions based on no solid evidence whatsoever. Cutting the food prices in half means three times as many people would buy the food? Really? If it were that easy, it would have been done already. So would the correct assumption be that the $7.00 tasteless hamburger model is working? After all, Cedar Fair parks are popularly known in the industry to have the absolutely worst food (both in quality and taste) out of any corporate chain. Ask many here about the "improved" pizza at Cedar Point for 2010... Ask anyone here how many times they eat in the park, and what they rate the quality of the food as compared to the price they paid? "If it were that easy, it would have been done already." The implication therein is that the pricing scheme in place now is the most obvious, easiest, or best for the park. All I know is, gas is through the roof, and still people find it worthwhile to leave the park to eat. Consider the time wasted by walking to and from the car, getting handstamps, driving to a place to eat, and then spending money there. But more people than Mr. Kinzel would like are doing it. That, to me, says that there is a better way to go about in-park dining, and that it's not being used. I may be just one voice in a crowd, but if that $7.00 hamburger were $3.50 instead, I would buy it. Sure it's tasteless. Sure it was frozen and probably microwaved. But at least that is "reasonable" in the park industry. But Johnny Rockets $7.95 burger that doesn't come with fries or a drink? And I'm not the only one who thinks it, based on the park's per cap spending... I don't have facts or figures. But examine the food products at Kings Island for quality, and then tell me if you think they're paying anywhere near $7.00 for the contents of that hamburger. I wager they're getting at least 500% over what they pay. At least. And don't get me started on "deals" for season passholders. I just turned twenty. My season pass gets me one buffet free when I buy four. Now, when will I use that? When will I be happy with four 6" subs and 4 small drinks from Subway for $39.99 or whatever the "deal" is, when I can get the same meal for $20 at the Subway 2 miles away? Meanwhile, at Disney parks, passholders have across-the-board discounts of 10% or 15% off food and merchandise based on the level of pass they have (think gold vs. platinum). That is a deal. My example wasn't to be taken literally or as a statistic. It's a generalized idea about how people avoid eating at the park for both financial reasons and on principle. This is not gourmet food, and yet it is priced as if it were. There's a problem with that, even in the eyes of the "general public." The per-caps illustrate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Every Paramount Park except one served dandy, tasty broiled burgers. One did not. Still doesn't. Can't rightly blame Cedar Fair or Dick Kinzel for that one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan73 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Why was Lion Country Safari an upcharge attraction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I have to believe that capacity, the high expense of the animals and their keeping (from caretakers to acquisition to feed to vet expenses to insurance) contributed. At least in the early years, the safari (later Wild Animal Habitat) drew some very long lines, upcharge not withstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Then again, this is the company that doesn't realize that if they cut food prices in half, three times as many people would buy the food... And based on the quality of food (and thus assuming its price to the park in bulk), I can only imagine that that would result in increased revenue and income. Same thing here. The problem is, you're making grand assumptions based on no solid evidence whatsoever. Cutting the food prices in half means three times as many people would buy the food? Really? If it were that easy, it would have been done already. To voice agreement with GYK: My wife and I left the park at noon today, went about 2 miles north to McD's, got Big Mac, 1/4 pounder, McDouble, med tea.... 8 bucks and change. Enjoyed meal in AC restaurant, got refills and were back in park 45 minutes later. At least 3/4 of the patrons had bright blue hand stamps. We don't care for McD's, but left park to save money. How's that for solid evidence? Edit: I wish KI would send a food and beverage manager to McD's and let him/her sit there and count how many KI handstamps they see, I think the numbers would really be a shocker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebeau Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 My wife and I left the park at noon today, went about 2 miles north to McD's, got Big Mac, 1/4 pounder, McDouble, med tea.... 8 bucks and change. Enjoyed meal in AC restaurant, got refills and were back in park 45 minutes later. At least 3/4 of the patrons had bright blue hand stamps. We don't care for McD's, but left park to save money. How's that for solid evidence? It's anecdotal evidence, so as solid evidence goes it's not very good. Having said that, I very rarely eat in the park. But just because I choose not to, I don't assume that CF has their pricing structure all wrong. Apparently, a lot of other people are choosing to eat inside the park in spite of the high prices and the (arguably) low quality. If not, CF would have made changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketingExpress Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Snowman: Just out of curiosity approximately how many people did you see at McDonald's with the blue handstamp in the 30 minutes (estimating) that you were in the restaurant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vortexfan Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 "If it were that easy, it would have been done already." The implication therein is that the pricing scheme in place now is the most obvious, easiest, or best for the park. No, the implication is that your earlier statement: if they cut food prices in half, three times as many people would buy the food. should apparently be so clear for Cedar Fair, it is a wonder they haven't fired their accountants and other execs and hired you instead. Look, no matter what board I see the food price debate, it always goes no where. One side always says 'I can afford the prices, so they must be reasonable", and the other, "I see people leaving the park during meal times, the prices are too high". Both sides are arguing from ignorance; we don't know how much Cedar Fair is spending for their product, and throwing around accusations and theories based on small observations doesn't necessarily hold true for Cedar Fair at the aggregate level! While yes, it may be true that many families cannot afford to buy meals in the park, that does not mean that every family cannot. Nor does it mean that a drastic drop in prices would magically make everyone happy and that Cedar Fair would be swimming in the green. I am NOT saying that there isn't an issue with the prices, don't get me wrong. But I don't believe anyone can make wild claims like you did without having some access to cold, hard data (i.e. Cedar Fair's balance sheets). Even looking at the most simplistic model of the supply and demand for food at the parks, if prices are cut in half, sales would need to double in order to keep the revenue constant. In reality, this is highly unrealistic, and that isn't even including some of the finer details such as the increased cost for factors of production (e.g. labor) that would occur in order to compensate for the increased output of food! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Snowman: Just out of curiosity approximately how many people did you see at McDonald's with the blue handstamp in the 30 minutes (estimating) that you were in the restaurant? Easily 35 to 40 clearly blue branded KI patrons. out of maybe 60 people in all. They were all in different small groups. Let's not forget the constant drive through business at these places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 It's anecdotal evidence, so as solid evidence goes it's not very good. . From my perspective it's solid evidence that 35 to 40 of the 60 or so people eating at McD's had blue KI handstamps, because I saw them. It's anecdotal to anyone reading this because I'm sharing the evidence I saw. There was also evidence that everyone there was eating solid food! Maybe McD's could sponsor The film at Action Theater. (Desparate attempt to get this thread back on topic!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcc Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Rehashing the food price issue..... We ate in the park on the days we were there last week. Normally, we leave or pack our lunch. We were very time limited, so we didn't get to pack our cooler, and we were too tired to run back and forth when hunger would strike. For five of us to have burgers and fries (NO drink).... $58.00. We ordered our burgers without cheese, to save a few dollars..brought our cup and refilled with free water ALL day. Several hours later, everyone was hungry again. This time...pizza and chicken sandwiches. All in all, $70. So, in only one day, we spent what we usually do on groceries for 2 weeks. Is that a hard hit on the wallet? Absolutely. $30 for fudge and a candy bar. Not necessary, but it's one of those things we do when we go. I didn't realize just HOW bad food prices are until last week. That will be the last time we eat in the park. Keep in mind, we spent roughly the same amount 3 days in a row. What we spent on food for three days is what we spent on five season passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Rehashing the food price issue..... We ate in the park on the days we were there last week. Normally, we leave or pack our lunch. We were very time limited, so we didn't get to pack our cooler, and we were too tired to run back and forth when hunger would strike. For five of us to have burgers and fries (NO drink).... $58.00. We ordered our burgers without cheese, to save a few dollars..brought our cup and refilled with free water ALL day. Several hours later, everyone was hungry again. This time...pizza and chicken sandwiches. All in all, $70. So, in only one day, we spent what we usually do on groceries for 2 weeks. Is that a hard hit on the wallet? Absolutely. $30 for fudge and a candy bar. Not necessary, but it's one of those things we do when we go. I didn't realize just HOW bad food prices are until last week. That will be the last time we eat in the park. Keep in mind, we spent roughly the same amount 3 days in a row. What we spent on food for three days is what we spent on five season passes. Right. It's to the extent that eating in the park is just plain impractical. The convenience of staying in the park isn't even enough to justify the price and quality. Again, if there were gourmet eats, perhaps at least you'd feel a little justified - a cooked-to-order Angus burger with fresh, bountiful toppings may be worth the price Kings Island charges. But what they serve is not. And as your experience shows, I'd wager that most people who try it once leave with the same impression: "never again." And based on the per-cap spending, the feeling is spreading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcc Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Absolutely. I could justify the prices if the burger were say, oh, hand pressed or whatever. Ya know..beefy beef. Not knocking the food, cause it is good for what it is, but I can get the same type of burger at a local deli here for $1.99. I almost fell over when my girls asked for an ICEE and noticed it was $9.99. That was one time they were told no, and when they noticed the price, they no longer wanted it. When kids under the age of 10 think prices are high, it might be time to reexamine the issue at hand. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Sure Peanuts are awesome but some little kids have no CLUE who lucy or linus are. My 10 year old daughter had no idea who Slider was, but when she spotted him at the Tribe game Sunday it was an immediate smile & "Daddy, I want a picture with THAT." I honestly believe people put WAY too much stock into the whole Peanuts vs. Nick thing. I have not heard a single child even close to mentioning: "No, I don't like them because I have no idea who they are." KI has also made the park look better than it has is quite some time using the Peanuts influence throughout the ENTIRE park- not just the kids' area. As far as pricing goes: try a baseball game. Hot Dog = $4, 20oz. soda (w/o lid & straw) $3.75, nachos = $6.75, bag of Cracker Jacks = $3.50, 16 Bud Light = $7.75, 20 oz. draft = $9.00. And all that was after 4 $50 tickets- and the game only lasted 2 hours & 21 minutes w/o the option of leaving the game & coming back in. Going to the movies is not a cheap date either with the same type of pricing. Consider other entertainment venues with inexpensive food pricing the exception & not the rule. Cutting the food prices in half will only cost the park more money. I'm sure that will make some laugh, but take a step back & look at the bigger picture. Businesses in the food service industry have to staff accordingly based on demand. If there was more people purchasing food, more employees would be needed & scheduled. If the typical food stand with today's prices on a Saturday needs 5 employees, cutting the price in half would necesitate 10 employees. Now if it rains for the first 3 hours of the day, those 10 employees would be standing around due to limited crowds. If the supervisor would let 1/2 go due to dead business, and then the sun miraculously appears- they are busy again & now understaffed. Not only are the guests ****ed about the wait, the employees sent home are also ****ed since they lose a days' pay and have them looking for a new & more stable job. The amount of food prepared falls into the same example. Cheaper price= more food prepared= possibility of more food thrown away due to limited amount of guests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 ^ So prices must stay high to support an optimum payroll? I certainly see where you're coming from and it makes sense, but the fact of the matter is that most other park chains don't charge near what Cedar Fair does for food. And those whose prices are even in the same ballpark have exponentially better tasting food. $4.00 for the small blue ice cream in Planet Snoopy? "I don't want it that bad," said my friend. It's blueberry soft-serve... Nothing more. And I think that the consumer catches on to that. Think of Busch Gardens. Universal Parks. Disney Parks. You're talking about nice food, in a nice setting, that is still at or below the price Cedar Fair has inflated a simple pair of spring rolls at Panda Express to. I've made mention of the $19.99 all-you-can-eat-all-day-long pass at Universal Orlando. Sure, they select three of the lower quality restaurants that your wristband is redeemable at... But still you can choose from a chicken-topped salad, spaghetti and breadsticks, etc. and you can get in 3 meals for $20.00, including a side and dessert with each pass through the food line (and as many trips as you'd like). And like it or not, Disney, Universal, and Busch are operating destination parks, at which people expect to spend money on meals, stay all day, etc. and bring money accordingly. Though perhaps they'd like to think that they are, Cedar Fair is running regional parks that can't reasonably charge the same amount of money because they're dealing with a different clientele. They essentially are selling a low quality version of a product, and peddling for the "industry standard" price despite below standard quality. There are certainly benefits to the system Cedar Fair has (most of which benefit those who are already raking in the dough). But the idea that they have this all figured out and that there is a "method to their madness" so to speak is, I think, wrong. I think they just want money. There are other systems that work, just perhaps with less immediate benefit to those in charge. I once worked part time for a businesses that proclaimed that "customer service is #1 at all times!" They also chose to impose limits on how many plastic bags a districts could go through. When our district exceeded that limit, we got no plastic bags for over two months. Suffice it to say, it was the kind of business where we had to offer to carry the merchandise to their cars since bags were not available. Customer service, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 There are certainly benefits to the system Cedar Fair has (most of which benefit those who are already raking in the dough). But the idea that they have this all figured out and that there is a "method to their madness" so to speak is, I think, wrong. I think they just want money. CF has people that are experienced & trained in business (unlike enthusiasts like you & me ) & have priced their food accrdingly to meet their financial demand (investors). I expect better food from Busch, Disney etc., and I do pay for it; just like I pay for some food at KI. When I have visited those parks recently, the prices were comparable (drinks) to KI, and more is most cases (food). Second guessing the prices is not much different than second guessing why certain safety policies are needed & enforced or why rides don't operate. Only a small handful know why & even less understand why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 That is too much. I would never shell out that kind of money just on Food. I would have left the park and went to MCD or any of the other fast food chains around the park, I'm sorry you blew that kind of money at KI for food, that is way too much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Absolutely. I could justify the prices if the burger were say, oh, hand pressed or whatever. Ya know..beefy beef. Not knocking the food, cause it is good for what it is, but I can get the same type of burger at a local deli here for $1.99. I almost fell over when my girls asked for an ICEE and noticed it was $9.99. That was one time they were told no, and when they noticed the price, they no longer wanted it. When kids under the age of 10 think prices are high, it might be time to reexamine the issue at hand. Just saying. You can actually refill your souvenir cup with icee at the places that sell the regular icees (the red and blue, not Mix it Up) for like $3 I think, unless they changed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeTe27 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 O i'm going to pack a lunch this time a round. Gas is just TOO HIGH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppetfan1999 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 My two cents on the food prices: Just take off a dollar. Cedar Fair doesn't need to cut it in half, or take off a certain amount for each type of food, just take off $1.00. It'll help a little. P.S. I do realize that i don't have the knowledge to fully understand theme park economy so feel free to fill me in if this does not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketingExpress Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 ^ So prices must stay high to support an optimum payroll? Not necessarily just optimum payroll. There are many departments that do not directly generate any additional revenue for the park (maintenance, rides, landscaping, general services, etc), yet they contribute to the operating expenses like the departments that do generate revenue (food, games, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Nemo Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://www.kingsdominion.com/what-s-new/new-dinosaurs-giants-of-patagonia-3d Looks cool, but what gets me is the following, "Free with park admission" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Perhaps when KI had an upcharge last year, there was not enough intrest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Interesting. I also note that the tickets interface on the KI website does not list 3D film tickets, only the main DA! tickets. This could mean that our film is now free with park admission as well, or it could just mean that it's been packaged with the dinosaur park. For now, I will refrain from speculating on which one of those it might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdawg1998 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Darn. Thought this was a new topic about a new film at Action FX Theater here at Kings Island. Sigh. Thanks for disappointing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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