Fright Lane issue, and other thoughts

[MagnumFan]

I posted a few days ago asking if this past weekend (Oct 8 & 9) was typically as crowded as my home park, CP, which usually experiences it's busiest day of the year that Saturday. Thanks to those who responded. We decided to go anyways, even though it's a 5 hour drive and I was just there last weekend. My brother and his wife hadn't been there in like 15 years, so it was good to go with "new" people and see their reactions to rides and haunted attractions.

We got there Saturday around 5PM to find the parking lot completely full, including the portion that is normally Boomerang Bay. Cars were also parked out on the grassy area, the whole way out to the intersection near the entrance to I-71 south. I have never seen anything like this. It took a while just to figure out where to go. Cars were still pouring in. We later found out from an employee that the park had reached capacity around 7PM due to no more parking.

We went in with the intention of doing only haunted attractions on Saturday, and hopefully one ride, Beast at night. Right away we went to Club Blood which was surprisingly no line (at 5:30PM) and then Massacre Manor, which we waited an hour for. Then off to Urgent Scare, which was about a 25 minute wait (remember it's still light out at this point). Got almost up to the entrance and the line stopped moving, and inside lights came on. There was no announcement as to what happened. I figured that, like last weekend, someone bumped one of the emergency buttons and that they had to check/reset the attraction. That only takes a couple minutes. But 45 minutes later, still no news. It would have been really nice if they had made an announcement. We later found out that someone had puked inside, hence the delay. So we lost a lot of time on this one.

We decided to do the train (Tombstone) and the line went all the way back to The Beast entrance. We waited for about 45 minutes at which point we were halfway to the Crypt. Emily, a super cool employee, came around at that point and was explaining to anyone who would listen that it would be AT LEAST a three hour wait from that point. Now I had ridden this the weekend before, and had waited from roughly that same point and it had only taken 1 hour, 10 minutes. So I asked her, WHY three hours? She explained that the Fright Lane people were filling nearly entire trains each cycle, and that as a result, none of the regular line people were advancing in the que. We had indeed been moving SUPER slowly. Normally that line moves in good sized batches.

I'll finish this pseudo trip report/rant before continuing to my main point about the Fright Lane passes. We got in line for Beast which was two hours total, all ques full, line back out to the Diamondback pond. In the line there was this guy who was 6'10" dressed in MSU basketball gear. Turns out he is a center on their basketball team, Adreian Payne. This toolbag (and his posse) continually line jumped, basically daring anybody to say anything to him. He started off way behind us but ended up on the ride probably 10 minutes ahead of us. Shame on you, Adreian Payne.

We finished up the night by heading back to the train, and getting on in about 15 minutes. This was right at 1AM. Unfortunately most of the scareactors had really phoned it in at this point and it was probably one of the worst haunted attractions I'd ever been on.

Sunday started off great and got busier as the day progressed. We rode everything, including multiple DB runs. Most lines were not more than 15 minutes at any point during the day. Beautiful weather was an added bonus.

Now to my point. I have no problem with the concept of paying to skip lines. That's how our society works and I accept that. Had I known how crowded Saturday was going to be, I may have done the same. What I have an issue with is that KI obviously is selling too many of these passes on busy days. When it affects a non-Fright Lane (or Fast Pass) person from being able to actually participate in an attraction, there is something wrong. The train was a perfect example of this. We experienced the same thing at Urgent scare (once it started operating again), there was 20 minutes where nobody from the regular line got in, just Fright Lane folks.

The Beast had a Fast Lane line down the ramp almost all the way out the exit. Not only does it adversely affect the non-paying crowd, but it partially dilutes the experience that the Fast Lane people paid money for. My other gripe is that there were numerous occasions where communication was sorely lacking from the park, causing a lot of people to waste a lot of time. A little more attention to customer service would go a long way towards improving the experience for all visitors. Food service is perhaps one of my biggest complaints. My sister in law waited in line several times 15+ minutes just for a souvenier cup refill. Yes, the lines were long, but the speed and effort of some of those employees was an embarrassment.

All in all, we had a great trip, but it's a shame how the Fright Lane and Fast Pass deals are working out. I like the concept but they are being poorly executed by KI. I pray each night before bed that these passes don't make their way over to CP next year.

It is always sad to leave KI for the last time each year. Especially on such a gorgeous day like we had yesterday. I have to say that was probably one of my favorite days in the park of all time. Short lines, outrageously good weather, fall colors, etc. Already looking forward to next year!

[standbyme]

Thank you for what appears to be a well intentioned post. By posting that you yourself would have purchased a Fright Lane pass had you known how busy it was going to be we know that you are not just someone who is anti-Fast Lane...which makes you criticisms "hold more weight". This post certainly makes me think*...

*Which is what one of our more selective posters wants us to do anyway!

[teenageninja]

The question here is now why you didn't buy a Fright Lane pass in the first place. You claimed that you saw cars out to the grass (which were employee cars by the way, they reserved the employee lot for guests this day). You should have bought the passes when you first entered.

While I understand your complaints about the lines, the Fright Lane passes were limited to some extent, I can't say at what point they were capped, but they never reached that value.

I am pleased to hear you still had a good time and had a generally positive attitude about your trip, I am sorry it was so busy. Cedar Point was equally as busy.

[kingsrattler]

I think it took a day like this past Saturday to hone in on where the Fast Lane/fright lane needs to be altered/improved upon. With a near capacity crowd and waits I have not seen in the past few years, it turns mole hills into mountains. But congrats to KI for one of the best crowds in recent history.

[MagnumFan]

The question here is now why you didn't buy a Fright Lane pass in the first place. You claimed that you saw cars out to the grass (which were employee cars by the way, they reserved the employee lot for guests this day). You should have bought the passes when you first entered.

I wasn't complaining about the lines. The post was not intended as a complaint, we had a great time. I like the concept of Fright Lane and Fast Pass. My only issue is that, it was clear to me and others, that they sold WAY too many of them. Especially when their own advertising says "...a very limited amount..." which was clearly not the case.

I spoke to a Fright Lane/FP sales person at the window who told me that they "do not sell out, even when the park is busy". Granted this is only one employee's statement, so take with a grain of salt.

Regardless of the lines, it's hard to hate a weekend at the park, even when it's nuts like it was Saturday.

[MarketingExpress]

Magnum,

Did you by chance stop at guest services on your way out and tell them about your experience while waiting in line for the train the first time? I hope you did because if that was indeed the case, it sounds like the train crew needs to be talked to about how they are letting the fright lane guests onto the ride.

[The Interpreter]

Perhaps one should be careful what one wishes for. I can see a very good argument that the Fast Lane prices are too cheap for a day like Saturday, and the park foolishly left money on the table.

Based on past conference calls , I'd say it is far more probable than not you will see a version of Fast Lane at Cedar Point next year. Given how successful the program has been, and how quickly Robin Innes's initial criticism of it was shushed, I'd say praying that it won't be implemented is pretty pointless

[Bennett]

Wouldn't have even dreamed of going on Saturday night...80 degrees and perfect weather? Knew it would be an epic disaster, but that's coming from me, who can't stand waiting in lines.

Did go yesterday, essentially walked on to everything...intermittent 3-5 minute waits on Diamondback, seen bigger lines there for ERT. The only real line I saw was for BSC, which isn't worth a 3-5 minute wait.

[standbyme]

The question here is now why you didn't buy a Fright Lane pass in the first place. You claimed that you saw cars out to the grass (which were employee cars by the way, they reserved the employee lot for guests this day). You should have bought the passes when you first entered.

Perhaps he fell for the park's line that they were very limited and after seeing the huge crowd he thought the Fright Lane passes ship HAD to have sailed by then. (I know that's what I would have thought...of course this is coming from someone who prepaid both of the last 2 Winterfest events in advance because I fell for the line that it might sell out also! )

On a totally serious/trying to be unbiased here comment....what can we deduce from the fact that the park didn't sell the "very limited amount" of Fright Passes on what has been rumored to have been one of their busiest days ever?

Is it:

A. The passes are not selling well? or B. The passes are far from limited?

[BoddaH1994]

The question here is now why you didn't buy a Fright Lane pass in the first place. You claimed that you saw cars out to the grass (which were employee cars by the way, they reserved the employee lot for guests this day). You should have bought the passes when you first entered.

Perhaps he fell for the park's line that they were very limited and after seeing the huge crowd he thought the Fright Lane passes ship HAD to have sailed by then. (I know that's what I would have thought...of course this is coming from someone who prepaid both of the last 2 Winterfest events in advance because I fell for the line that it might sell out also! )

On a totally serious/trying to be unbiased here comment....what can we deduce from the fact that the park didn't sell the "very limited amount" of Fright Passes on what has been rumored to have been one of their busiest days ever?

Or we don't know what the "limit" is. That could mean 3 or it could mean 3,000.

Is it:

A. The passes are not selling well? or B. The passes are far from limited?

[benred23]

Bottom Line, Kings Island Tells people the passes are "Very Limited" To give people the idea that there will be no wait, when in all actuality, They'll sell as many of them as they can because $$$ means more than anything...

...And Yes, Im a Fast Lane Hater and always will be. Its not Fair to the ones who cant afford it and does nothing more than make wait times longer for the Core group of Park guests and Lower Customer Service even more..

[The Interpreter]

Should admission to the park and food be free? After all, charging is not fair to those that cannot afford it.

Terp, who likes to ask thought-provoking questions

[standbyme]

Terp, who likes to ask thought-provoking questions

Or at the very least provoking posts for some of us!

[PhantomTheater]

http://www.cityofbinghamton.com/history.asp

George F. Johnson (1857-1948), a local shoe manufacturer and a great benefactor to the Binghamton area, donated six beautiful carousels to local parks within Broome County.

He felt that carousels contributed to a happy life and would help youngsters grow into strong and useful citizens. "George F" believed carousels should be enjoyed by everyone and insisted that money should never be charged for the "magic ride."

Now, in their 7th decade, these magnificent machines still spin from Memorial Day to Labor Day at no charge.

Food for thought on that question Terpy.

[The Interpreter]

And they all still have magnificent organs.

Meanwhile, in that same state, Playland is endangered as Westchester County can't seem to make a go of it.

[standbyme]

Is it:

A. The passes are not selling well? or B. The passes are far from limited?

Or we don't know what the "limit" is. That could mean 3 or it could mean 3,000.

I am aware of that...but whatever the number is that the park set it at...which they allude is so limited that they could sell out...does that mean that they are not selling as well as they expected...or the number isn't THAT limited?

I honestly don't think the number of passes the park sells should rise along with the size of the crowd because that does affect the value of the Fright Pass...and I also believe that on slow days the park is not lowering the amount sold...but that could be the cynic in me.

[UnrealNightmare]

How do we know they don't have a set limit on them and that a lot of the people with the Fright Lane passes just happened to go to the same haunt at once. I mean you can only use the Fright Lane passes one time for each attraction. Your other problem here could have been from the people who chose to do the fright feast. When you purchase a fright feast you get ONE front of the line pass and personally I myself would use it on either Tombstone Terrortory or Carnevil. So you could have just an overflow of both all going to the same attraction at once.

[CedarPointer]

(which were employee cars by the way, they reserved the employee lot for guests this day).

[teenageninja]

Why the rolling eyes? That is a fact that employees parked out in the grass along Western Row Rd.

[CoasterGeek101]

Really, my thoughts on this is that Kings Island SHOULD limit how many they sell. And with Tombstone Terror Tory, they should only let a certain amount of Fright Laneers on at once and with the other attractions. The reason why people hate these things is because they have to wait longer in line. If they did, then Fright Laners would eventually do everything once and it would stop. I mean if the limit they sell each night is maybe 200, then once they are done, they are done. Nevertheless, I DO think that every other park should get Fast Lane for rides, and Fright lane, BUT they should VERY MUCH limit how many Fast Laners go in at a time. They can wait for a few minutes to make it fair for other people. These things are designed for people who maybe only go once a year and want to do as much as they can.

Those are my thoughts.

[The Interpreter]

Once upon a time, if you wanted to ride a ride, you paid. If you wanted to ride again, you paid again. You could not pick your seat. Lines were seldom long. Parks knew what rides paid for themselves and which did not. Even for company picnics, most of the time the rides required tickets.

Six Flags still runs their mazes this way.

Then came Pay One Price. Believe it or not, parks did this to make more money, as in the old days non-riders paid little to nothing.

Now, many attractions are upcharges, pay to not wait is becoming common. Will the day come when pay per ride is again the norm?

[teenageninja]

200 a night? It wouldn't even pay off the park's money to run the program. They would probably not even make money on this. I'd say capping it at 5% of park admission would be more than suitable. I'm not making the decisions though.

[bkroz]

200 a night? It wouldn't even pay off the park's money to run the program. They would probably not even make money on this. I'd say capping it at 5% of park admission would be more than suitable. I'm not making the decisions though.

200 people x $35 dollars (we're averaging here) = $7,000. How much do you think it cost to put up a dozen "Fright Lane" signs and buy little concert-style wristbands, because that is basically the only expense the park undertook to begin this program. Even if there was an extra person on payroll for each maze, their measly $500 of added pay still makes this system MOSTLY profit.

I think the limit the park imposes is mathematically dervied with this formula:

(daily limit of Fast / Fight Lane) = (number of people who are willing to buy Fast / Fright Lane tickets) + 1

[BoddaH1994]

200 a night? It wouldn't even pay off the park's money to run the program. They would probably not even make money on this. I'd say capping it at 5% of park admission would be more than suitable. I'm not making the decisions though.

200 people x $35 dollars (we're averaging here) = $7,000. How much do you think it cost to put up a dozen "Fright Lane" signs and buy little concert-style wristbands, because that is basically the only expense the park undertook to begin this program. Even if there was an extra person on payroll for each maze, their measly $500 of added pay still makes this system MOSTLY profit.

I think the limit the park imposes is mathematically dervied with this formula:

(daily limit of Fast / Fight Lane) = (number of people who are willing to buy Fast / Fright Lane tickets) + 1

I think the forumula is more along the lines of:

f(x) = Amount of people willing to buy more Fast Lane tickets + hey, what can we do to sell more of these things tomorrow?

But hey... it's business....

[CedarPointer]

Why the rolling eyes? That is a fact that employees parked out in the grass along Western Row Rd.

It's employee parking, not guest parking. No wonder so many of them pull in that entrance the rest of the year...

[PhantomTheater]

^and then there is CP, where there is no difference.

[Guest rcfreak339]

I love the idea behind a "flash pass" type system. Yes, the system at Kings Island needs work but saying these flash lane passes effect the regular paying crowed is bull. This type of system of system has been around for years at both Six Flags and Disney, with Disney's being free. Do you think it's fair to skip normal paying crowds for free since you can afford that?

I agree though, Kings Island needs to set up a set limit on how many passes they will be willing to sell. Saturday was INSANE.

[The Interpreter]

If they set a rigid limit as to how many they will sell, the price will rise if they regularly sell out. Maximizing revenue AND the Fast Lane experience while having the minimum impact on regular guests can be done. It is, however, more an art than a science.

[Ki Man]

Once upon a time, if you wanted to ride a ride, you paid. If you wanted to ride again, you paid again. You could not pick your seat. Lines were seldom long. Parks knew what rides paid for themselves and which did not. Even for company picnics, most of the time the rides required tickets.

Six Flags still runs their mazes this way.

Then came Pay One Price. Believe it or not, parks did this to make more money, as in the old days non-riders paid little to nothing.

Now, many attractions are upcharges, pay to not wait is becoming common. Will the day come when pay per ride is again the norm?

Nope because you buy a ticket, and all the rides and attractions are 'free'. Once something is free, people won't see a reason to pay for it again because it was previously 'free' haha.

[Dalefan]

Btw, the park did have a bus system for us workers who parked in the grass.