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Vortex to be retired soon?


stashua123
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I agree about the look of Vortex. I don't care to ride it much anymore because it's too tight of a fit for me but I still love looking at it, especially in pictures.

As for the flame war... bluntly telling someone they're wrong is not flaming. If it hurts that much I highly recommend never playing a sport that has a coach.

I would rather people get offended and leave this site than to maintain an annoying presence here.

EDIT: Saying your wrong is also not nearly as bad as calling someone a dick or douche. Check yourself please.

Why breath air into the fire, why try to keep this flame war up. Let it go. It's over. Leave it.

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Here is my take on the flame war: There should not be flaming of any sort against any opinion that a user might make. Web sites like this needs members to voice their opinions, experiences, and other discussions regarding the amusement sector of all types. I see lots of people that give the impression they are experts about all aspects that relates to roller coasters. This is all based on their love of the roller coaster rides and learning everything they can regarding the ride from various web sites and articles. Some have learned more than others. Then you have users like me who just want to enjoy a ride and can care less as far as who makes it, the engineering specs, the construction details, and so forth. When I see users commenting on a ride and another user responds that they are wrong, that is not the way to do things. People read these and when they see someone is flamed because someone didn't like their opinion, they begin to wonder why they even come here or why they should stay. Web sites only exists because of its membership base. Once it starts to have a reputation of users flaming others, then it looses its base and will not grow. I have seen various web sites shut down because of issues like this and the users go where they are welcome. The problem when some users would rather see people get offended and leave this site than to maintain an annoying presence here as 74gibson stated is wrong. It is ok to voice your opinion but not ok to say your opinion is wrong. Just my thoughts.

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I can believe it! The last couple of times and i cant ride it anymore with getting a headache,

Is that because of the ride or you? I dont mean to be rude, but as we all get older and some of us get bigger, cough, rides dont fit like they should. When they dont fit like they should/did the ride experience suffers...

In my case, it's not the ride, it's me. I simply don't have enough body weight to hold myself still between the restraints. It does not fit like it should.

My guests and I were looking at Vortex over Halloween, it's one of those "you guys go ahead, I'll watch for you." gigs. They gave it the once over and passed, because it looked old and rickety.

I'm not going to say it's rickety, and old and needs retired. The style of Vortex looks more streamlined compared to some of the rides by it, but not rickety. It could do with a coat of paint though. I wouldn't know if it is riding rough, recently. It rode rough for me back in 1992.

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They gave it the once over and passed, because it looked old and rickety.

How times change. I remember always being impressed with how modern and sturdy Vortex looked when visiting as a child, even though it was one I'd never ride.

I wonder how people will describe Diamondback in 20 years, if it's still standing.

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It's such a solid coaster that I'd bet it will be seen like Magnum which is still widely popular (for those who know to sit in a middle seat).

Arrows suffered poor transitions and roughness, by design (at least those I've ridden). Not knocking Arrow, more the technology of the time compared to today's. B&M hypers are of a different caliber and I expect they'll stand the test of time more than Arrow will. I think Raptor is a good example of the longevity of their appeal.

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I still remember seeing Vortex for the first time, in 1992. I'm kind of surprised, really, that I was able to work my nerve up to get on it (I didn't ride it that visit, I think it was the next one). It was so massive, so completely overwhelming in size to me.

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I find this odd that they would retire Vortex in the future considering it was nominated on the Travel channel for looping roller coaster. Hopefully if they retire it, they re-build it by a different manufacturer. Does anybody make looping roller coasters anymore?

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A reincarnated Vortex would be the last thing I'd want in that space. Either keep it, or get something more "modern". I think a wooden coaster would look fantastic in that location, but I could easily see Intamin (like Maverick) as it's replacement. (Intamin and B&M both still use loops.)

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I kinda want to see Vortex get a redesign similar to what was done to Steel Phantom when it became Phantom's Revenge. Of course, I'd much like to keep the inversions intact, but you get the idea of a different company coming in to redo a previous coaster.

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They gave it the once over and passed, because it looked old and rickety.

How times change. I remember always being impressed with how modern and sturdy Vortex looked when visiting as a child, even though it was one I'd never ride.

I wonder how people will describe Diamondback in 20 years, if it's still standing.

I already look at is as a pipeline, because that's what it really is. That's what's so frightening to me about it- that and the fact that the chair in front of you just disappears over the hill, and I'm next.

Thanks for the clarification on the paint job. Perhaps it's just the colors compared to the scenery around it make it seem darker to me.

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Why is it that Arrow Dynamics can't seperate itself from S&S, to become an independent coaster manufacturer? S&S doesn't seem too interested in building coasters, so why not let Arrow go off and do so? Unless Arrow doesn't have the ambition anymore...

Why do you say that S&S isn't too interested in building coasters?

There aren't a huge number of them in our country, but since starting in 1994 they have built an average of more than one a year.

Right now there are 4 under construction.

(http://rcdb.com/r.htm?ot=2&co=6930)

They are using the Arrow magic to build fourth-dimension coasters if I understand correctly, and otherwise doing their own thing.

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Why is it that Arrow Dynamics can't seperate itself from S&S, to become an independent coaster manufacturer? S&S doesn't seem too interested in building coasters, so why not let Arrow go off and do so? Unless Arrow doesn't have the ambition anymore...

Why do you say that S&S isn't too interested in building coasters?

There aren't a huge number of them in our country, but since starting in 1994 they have built an average of more than one a year.

Right now there are 4 under construction.

(http://rcdb.com/r.htm?ot=2&co=6930)

They are using the Arrow magic to build fourth-dimension coasters if I understand correctly, and otherwise doing their own thing.

Arrow produced 10 coasters in their final 4 years of independent operation (1999-2002), averaging in at just under 3 coasters a year. S&S on the other hand, has been around for 14 years and is averaging 1 coaster a year. Maybe I'm crazy, but those numbers just scream Arrow's success and commitment in coasters, and S&S' lack thereof.

You said yourself, Arrow is only doing 4th Dimensions and nothing more, so what's the point? Perhaps financial constraints or a contract binding is constricting Arrow's potential ambition?

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Arrow as of now has little influence on S&S roller coasters. Nowhere in S&S' designs do you see Arrow track, elements, train designs, or other indications of former Arrow Dynamics engineering.

S&S does own Arrow Dynamics, but I suspect only for their 4th Dimension product line. Had it not been for the enticing technology Arrow harnessed, I doubt S&S would have picked up the fallen corporation. I'm assuming S&S execs now know Arrow's secret to the 4th Dimension coasters having built two of them, so the question remains: Why keep the Arrow division if they no longer appear to serve a purpose?

I am saying this making assumptions based upon information I have gathered. I don't want to make this sound like I know all there is to know about the inner workings of S&S Arrow, because I don't. Should I be wrong, I am more than willing to accept help to further my understanding. Just don't go about it like a Summer's Eve. :)

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^ Oh, wait. We're actually on the same page here. I misunderstood a couple posts before. My bad! (And sorry if I came across like a Summer's Eve! Didn't mean to sound like I was correcting you. :) )

Nothing to see here, carry on...

(Oh, and for what it's worth: I've heard before via a few people on here that a part of S&S's attraction to Arrow was the lucrative parts division. Don't know that for a fact myself--just passing it along!)

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Don't worry. Nobody was being a Summer's Eve. It's just that it seems like everything I say is at least partially wrong, so I just stuck that in there in case I am wrong.

I forgot about the spare parts factor. It seems like the only logistical reason why S&S is hanging on to Arrow.

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That's like saying you wonder why Cedar Fair is holding on to Paramount Parks. There isn't in reality the entity once known as Paramount Parks. It was people, a culture, a way of thinking, acting, treating people. A customer list, a vendor list. A governance structure, which did not include Dick Kinzel. All basically thoroughly integrated into what is now Cedar Fair Entertainment Company or abandoned. Ironically, the acquisition, and its debt load, transformed Cedar Fair at least as much as it did Paramount Parks.

Back to Arrow. Arrow failed. Not just once either. Several times. And its real genius was Ron Toomer and the people he surrounded himself with. He was an engineering genius. A finance guy? Not so much. In any event, he's gone.

S&S is a business. A flowing, changing entity. It could sell part of its business lines if it chose. Even if it did, there really isn't the old Arrow, sitting as a separate unit, waiting to be neatly sawed off and sold.

If and when Vortex ends at Kings Island, it's not likely to be because of parts availabilty.

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