What Steel coaster do you think will last longest?

[TheSnapper]

Which steel coaster do you think will last the longest? I know steel ages and the coasters cant last forever and I was wondering which coasters do you think will be around the longest? I heard from Steel Maintance that Face/Off is aging the best. Will Vortex be here in 5 years?

[PKI Punk]

I think and I hope that Top Gun is the next to go. It is just a waste of space.

[PKI Homey]

^Agreed. I would say that The Vortex is the eldest and probably would be the first to go if they had to remove one.

[TheKlockster]

They can rebuild pieces of track and stuff that fall apart cant they? I would hate to see The Vortex go. What would replace it? Inversions dont seem to be the "in" thing these days. Personally I would rather ride Vortex than any hypercoaster at Cedar Point. I think the only thing that could replace Vortex would be a 4D coaster or another coaster with 6 or more inversions. Anything less, including something as dull as Millenium Force would make me and a lot of other people upset.

[TheKlockster]

Actually knowing my luck they would tear down Vortex and put in that Lemony Snicket thing or the Spongebob Driving School. I hope they dont though cause myself, everyone in my family and most of my friends think Vortex is the best coaster. Face Off is too short. Topgun is fun but too short and has no inversions. FOF is too short. We like longer coaster experiences - and Beast and SOB have those, but Vortex is awesome.

[PKI Homey]

Good question. I'm sure they can replace parts of the track, but I'm not sure about the supports. Inversions aren't the in thing? Are you sure? What about B&M inverts? Silver Bullet at Knott's Berry Farm is going up. I think maybe you are noticing less looping coasters due to Arrow no longer being here. There's also the standing coasters with loops and inversions not to mention B&M hyper/looping coasters.

[TheKlockster]

Thats true. I didnt think about that. Instead of inversions I should have said clothoid-shaped- loops. Cobra-rolls, corkscrews, in-line twists and zero-g rolls are inversions too! I just like the sensation you get when actually doing a loop. But if you look at a coaster like MF or M200XL at Cedar Point they are designed to go fast. They dont even use parabolic air time hills - they use linear speed hills. I am planning on going to CP next summer, and Ill ride MF and those other ones, but the only ones I am really excited about are TTD and Gemini. I just think that hypercoasters are dumb.

The silver bullet at KBF looks awesome. It has plenty of inversions, including the zero-g roll - make sure theres nothing in your shirt pocket! I was just thinking about something someone else put in a post a long time ago, where they said to tear down The Vortex and put in a hypercoaster. That would be dumb in my opinion. But if they replaced it with something better (not on the level of IJ but something that takes the level of The Vortex up a notch) I would be ok with it. Like I said a 4D or something like the Batman flying coaster at SFGA would be awesome.

[PKI Punk]

Something as dull as Millenium Force.

WTF!? Millennium Force dull? Did I hear you correctly? I only have one question for you and that is: Have you ever ridden MF?

[TheKlockster]

But if you look at a coaster like MF or M200XL at Cedar Point they are designed to go fast. They dont even use parabolic air time hills - they use linear speed hills. I am planning on going to CP next summer, and Ill ride MF and those other ones, but the only ones I am really excited about are TTD and Gemini. I just think that hypercoasters are dumb.

As I said in the last post...

What I am saying is it goes fast, then slows down, then goes fast again, then slows down again, then goes fast again then slows down again. It goes into a couple tunnels. A lot of people like that kind of thing. I like rapid changes in direction more than I do in speed. I am sure Millennium Force is fun, but I was saying that there are things out there much more extreme. Take TTD - it rockets you 420 feet into the air and then pulls you back down. Or X - it has a 215 foot drop making it taller than Magnum 200 XL. But where M200XL just does the speed up-slow down thing over and over and over, X takes you through inversions, parabolic air time hills all the while the seats themselves spin and spin. I would much rather do something like that than speed up and slow down. If all I wanted to do was go down a big hill and go fast, I would take my friends' 500hp camaro down a back country road.

[PKI Punk]

Hey copyzar, TTD sppeds up (during the launch), slows down on the top hat, then speeds back up. You don't go 120mph the whole ride. Secondly, Millennium Force maintains a minimum speed of at least 60 mph. Thirdly, why would you want to ride Gemini, sure it's a classic, but it is a peice of clap. If you hate rides that slow down, you better not ride Gemini.

PS I get to go to CP on Saturday!

[TheKlockster]

Its the LIM launch and the 90 degree ascent and descent that make TTD cool. I think Gemini looks cool cause its the same premise as AE - a steel coaster in disguise as a woodie, but it races. And the track looks longer and more interesting than The Racer at PKI - although The Racer has good airtime and is fast. Its just something I want to try. Ive never been to CP, I might end up thinking MF is the most awesome coaster in the world and Gemini sucks. Who knows. Im just saying that from what I have seen and read about MF, and the RCT model of it, it looks like it wouldnt be that interesting. But then again, Racers looks boring, but after riding it, boring is the one thing it isnt! Im just saying I like flipping and twisting and turning. Like if FOF and Vortex are good examples. And while SOB (forget what I said about waiting till next year, Im riding it first sat in october) contains only one inversion, it has two banked helixes. But you are right, im not the expert on CP - Ive never been. But all these coaster shows on Travel Channel and all that, always show Cedar Point. And I just think that M200XL and MF look like they might not be my favorites - but Ill have to wait and see till next season.

I do think wicked twister and mantis look cool though. But I still say TTD is the one I want to ride most.

Have fun at CP PKIPunk! I work every saturday... unless I request it off a month in advance.

[PKI Punk]

Don't make any assumptions until you have ridden the ride, (I found that out myself). Gemini sucks and MF is AWESOME. That is all I am saying. You will find this out when you get to CP.

[Tanner]

Hey copyzar, TTD sppeds up (during the launch), slows down on the top hat, then speeds back up. You don't go 120mph the whole ride. Secondly, Millennium Force maintains a minimum speed of at least 60 mph. Thirdly, why would you want to ride Gemini, sure it's a classic, but it is a peice of clap. If you hate rides that slow down, you better not ride Gemini.

PS I get to go to CP on Saturday!

You've soooo got to be kidding! Gemini is far from a piece of crap. It was one of the best coasters that I rode at CP. I'm not kidding either. It's a classic, it's smooth, and definately has the best head chopper effect of any coaster I have ridden. I think you just have a case of "It's a CP coaster so I hate it!"

[PKI Punk]

I will give you that Gemini has good head choppers, but I only dislike two coasters at CP, Gemini and Mean Streak(if you have ridden this, you probably know why I hate it.) Other than that, I love CP and all the coasters there.

[TheSnapper]

First off Top Thrill Dragster uses a cable launch not a lim Launch and second of all Millenium and Magnum are 2 of the top 3 best coasters in the world. They are amazing and I dont think its right for you to assume they are dull when you havent even been on them.

[TheKlockster]

Ok, we've established that you cant judge a coaster till you ride it. But my only point to what I originally said was that I personally prefer radical changes in direction to changes in speed. And the whole reason we even started on this was that I said I dont think they should tear down The Vortex. And I still dont unless they replace it with something more extreme, not just faster.

And once more, I am planning on going to CP next season. I might end up thinking MF is the best coaster in the world. I dont know now though cause Ive never rode it. I was just saying from what I see, it looks boring. But I guess theres nothing boring about falling 300 feet at 88 degrees! One thing I think is really cool is the lift hill on it - it uses an elevator instead of a chain.

Youre also right about TTD. It uses magnets to stop the vehicle, but not to start it. On the Worlds Best on the travel channel, they show it, and this long hydraulic thing comes down the track and slides under the car prior to launch. So that must be the cable thing. Sorry I just got confused. Why do they tell you to put your arms down just before the launch? Would it hurt you pretty bad going from 0-120 in 4 secs?

Well sorry if I made anybody mad by that comment. I didnt mean to.

[TheSnapper]

Because if you have your hands up it will increase the chances of a roll back so if everyone has there hands up the greater the chance of a roll back. Millenium Force drop is the best and its even better from the back seat

[PKI Punk]

That is exactly my point.

[TheKlockster]

I heard somewhere that in the early morning they have to launch it several times cause the track is cold or something, and the first few times it doesnt quite make it over. Is that true? Do they actually let people ride it during that?

I bet that drop on the MF would be nuts. I used to be scared to death of the drops, but now they are like my favorite part. The feeling you get on them is crazy. On Vortex, when you go over and before you build up speed its like Oh Crap here it comes! But then it is so fun going down it. And MF is twice as high, and almost twice as steep. So I bet that part would be cool. Do you get any airtime on the MF? I know M200XL uses the speed hills that are not parabolic, but with a minimum speed of 60mph, any radical change in direction from going up to going down, even if the track is not parabolic is bound to give you some airtime.

Well I guess its something you just have to experience before trying to figure out what its like. But now I do look forward to it more since you all have said that it is a genuine good coaster and not just an attempt at CP to get the record.

[PKI Punk]

About TTD, it is called a rollback and it does happen, actually more than you would think. And about MF and airtime, that is like asking if you get airtime on The Racer...you get a TON of airtime on MF.

[PKI_Man]

Or they could Revamp Vortex to at least make the ride itself smoother, make the coaster's life longer than its present condition today, i dont want Vortex to be taken out, its one of the parks milestones, and coaster accoplishment to complete 6 inversions, why would PKI take out a legend..........i'd just refurbish the whole coaster to have its life-span to be taken a little further

[fryler87]

Sometimes, comepletely overhauling a coaster isn't cost-effective. Vortex cost the park $4 million (or so it's quoted, there's the story about how Arrow built it for free because of the lemoned Bat). It would cost more than $4 million to completely overhaul the thing, probably because an EXACT replica of the track must be re-created so when new track is installed, old supports and footers can remain.

Vortex will be here for at least 7 more years. It's got lots of life left. Face/Off will probably be the steel coaster that will be removed the furthest down the timeline.

[PKI Homey]

"Mean Streak(if you have ridden this, you probably know why I hate it.) "

Nope, sure don't. I like the Mean Streak. I also like the Gemini racing coasters. Not only is there great headchoppers, but the airtime is some of the best that I have experienced. As far as MF goes, I only remember airtime twice...on the two hills going to and coming from MF island. I don't think that it has a lot of great airtime.

Back to the topic, I agree with fryler, that it would not be cost effective to rebuild The Vortex. Too much money when you could build a new one for about the same price.

[PKI Punk]

Dude, Mean Streak beats the living cr@p out of you. If you think SOB it bad, try riding Mean Streak. It is like riding a jackhammer!

[PKI Homey]

You know Punk, gotta agree with you a little on that one! It seems there is a lot of up and down movement (no pun intended) with the cars whereas SOB's cars shuffle too much from side to side. If you had better trains on SOB, it would probably be a better ride.

[TheSnapper]

Mean Streaks trains are 2 bench PTC and SOB trains are Premier (identical to FOF trains) So SOB trains hurt your legs so bad it suck and Mean Streak trains are nice. Both coasters are jerky however SOB after the loop is the roughest ride ive ever been on.

[PKI Punk]

Mean Streak needs 3 bench trains like The Beast so at least a few people can have a good ride.(The people who ride in the middle seats.)

[TheSnapper]

if you ride in the front row of each car its not so bad though. Raven and Legend are 2 bench and they are smooth

[CoasterKrazy]

Thats true. I didnt think about that. Instead of inversions I should have said clothoid-shaped- loops. Cobra-rolls, corkscrews, in-line twists and zero-g rolls are inversions too! I just like the sensation you get when actually doing a loop. But if you look at a coaster like MF or M200XL at Cedar Point they are designed to go fast. They dont even use parabolic air time hills - they use linear speed hills. I am planning on going to CP next summer, and Ill ride MF and those other ones, but the only ones I am really excited about are TTD and Gemini. I just think that hypercoasters are dumb.

Almost all vertical loops found on roller coasters today are clothoid (or teardrop) in shape, with the exception of a few Schwarzkopf loops, which are incredibly circular and pull amazing G's. Aside from a few variations, the only difference from an Arrow/Vekoma loop and a B&M/Intamin loop is the size.

As far as hyper coasters go, almost every single one built within the past five years uses solely parabolic hills, which includes Millennium Force. Magnum uses both parabolic and linear hills, and I believe Gemini uses only linear, but I could be wrong about that.

[TheKlockster]

But what's the advantage in using linear speed hills? I know a big thing about clothiod loops and parabolic hills is that the rate of acceleration itself changes. Now we all know acceleration is just a change in direction or speed, to the positive or negative. And we know this occurs on the linear speed hills. But the joy of parabolic hills is that different levels of acceleration are felt. My physics is rusty, but I believe that on a linear speed hill you will feel a deceleration of (9.8m/s^2)/tan(x) going up and an acceleration of (9.8m/s^2)/tan(x) going down, where x is the angle of ascent/descent. But the acceleration is constant. The acceleration contiunally varies while cresting a parabolic hill. Im not even going to try and calculate that since it involves integrals! So back to my original question.

Whats the hype about linear speed hills?