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BoddaH1994

Starting to Decode 2014

13756 posts in this topic

Here are my construction pics from today (I also took several other pics - those are in my main KI 2013 set on Flickr):

For those who don't have flash: KI Construction 6/5

Interesting to note that our beloved triangular footer now has grass growing on it. Perhaps it was not meant to be part of a ride but rather part of some nice landscaping?

those longer shaped footers by the wooden fence definitely look like those of an inverted coaster

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Several things:

A. Screamscape did NOT summarize here. Where's the giga discussion? The green INTAMIN track? The intelligent analysis? The Banshee insistence?

B. Cedar Point a balanced park? No. It very much caters to the thrill seeker. That is one of many reasons Gatekeeper is such a brilliant addition for 2013. No, I won't be explaining that. I will note it had some of the shortest lines in the park last night, admittedly a small sample size.

C. Bigger, BADDER. faster? Gatekeeper?

That ride explains a lot.

Earlier, much earlier, my philosophy of new Cedar Fair management was alluded to in a Italian Job: Stunt Coaster thread. Some, nay--most, took that too literally.

Gatekeeper explains all. Look for a Gatekeeper type move at Kings Island.

Mr. Ouimet has explained several times, in great detail, where Cedar Fair is headed. And it is not bigger, badder, faster. Look for a brilliant move at Kings Island.

This post is not a diversion.

(Hi, Mr. J!)

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C. Bigger, BADDER. faster? Gatekeeper?

Gatekeeper is the longest, fastest, has the longest drop and most inversions of any wing coaster. So I'd say they used the bigger badder faster formula. I know that you know what you're talking about Terp, I just disagree with your assessment.

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I'm hoping that as part of the expansion/revamp of Action Zone, that more family friendly flats/rides are part of the long term plan. The current construction certainly seems like some sort of major coaster installation, and I completely get putting in the major attraction first, but that area, and the park as well, could certainly use a handful of smaller, gentler flats (tea cups or spinning barrels seems like an obvious ommision from the park) as well as another coaster designed for the 40-48" and up crowd, something along the lines of flying Ace Arial Chase (but hopefully with better capacity).

Planet Snoopy is about as packed as it can get. There is some room for a smaller ride back by the stage area, but otherwise they're going to have to take something out if they decide to add a "big" kid ride in that area. Honestly, its a very nice collection of rides for all age levels, flying ace arial chase, woodstock express, surf dog, race for your life charlie brown (which probably isn't technically in Planet Snoopy, but close enough) all pack a decent punch for the under 48" crowd. Snoopy junction, the multiple car rides, swings, planes and helicopter rides, great pumpkin coaster, etc.. all offer a thrilling experience for the under 40" crowd. Then they've got a good collection of rides that aren't really huge thrill rides, but are not aimed at the typical 2-3 year old in boo blasters, the smaller bumper cars, linus' launcher, tree kite, etc..

If there is one thing I'd take out, or at least modify, its the splash pad type attraction. I'm not sure how it worked when it was the slime zone, but I can't help but think just how poorly that layout is designed. Its an attraction aimed at kids in the 3-6 year old range, you enter on one side of the ride, then exit on the complete opposite side, which means parents either have to race around to the other side to collect their kids, or trust that their kids will come back around to the entrance. Just a dumb layout.

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^27 people didn't.

I being one of those 27. Worst experience I have ever felt. Wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy.

Wonder who they is? The GM? Mr. Ouimet? The Board of Directors?

At Six Flags, the local management is given a budget and attendance/demographic goals. How to get there is determined locally. Under Mr. Kinzel, nearly all, including the smallest, decisions were made at 1 Cedar Point Drive.

The dippin dots guy!?

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Several things:

A. Screamscape did NOT summarize here. Where's the giga discussion? The green INTAMIN track? The intelligent analysis? The Banshee insistence?

I think that's a new record for Screamscape. 4 days and a complete reversal of their "source confirmation."

I give it 4 more updates and the original 5/30 Wing confirmation will *POOF* dissapear. ;-)

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Isn't the name "Banshee" offensive or something? I know that Mantis at Cedar Point was originally supposed to be named Banshee but they changed it for the same reason.

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Kinzel's Cedar Fair modern?

Ha ha ha!

Whatever, you know what I mean. They like to build lots of modern thrill coasters. By "modern" I mean hypers, gigas, and stratas.

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So, I have absolutely no idea what the new ride will be...nor do I possess the mechanical expertise to compare the layout and types of footers and make educated guesses about what is being constructed (but, I'm really impressed by those that have that ability!). However, as a KI (and parks in general) fan, I can say what I'd like most to see built:

1) A B&M invert (I'm still bitter that our Top Gun ended up being an Arrow suspended instead of the B&M invert that the other Paramount Parks got at the time...) Even though there's nothing revolutionary about the design any more, some of my fav coasters (Dueling Dragons, Raptor, Montu) are of this type. Maybe something "biggest & fastest" of this type? A new "Bat" would be particularly nostaligic :-)

2) A B&M Dive Machine. While I can agree with the argument these are somewhat of a "one trick pony", there's nothing else like it in the regional market. (And, I can honestly say that SheiKra was one of the only coasters I can remember in the past 15 years or so that actually made me feel a little nervous the first time riding it...)

3) A Maverick-type coaster with a custom layout (first seat is one of my best rides on anything). Maybe they could return Action Zone back to the jungle theming of the old WAH era and make it jungle themed (as opposed to Maverick's western theme...)

4) A B&M Giga

The thing I want to see least is a wing rider/Gatekeeper clone. Not that I have any thing against Gatekeeper or wing riders, my feelings on this are purely selfish--I'd like some variety between the two parks I visit most frequently (CP & KI). If KI and CP puts in duplicate installations (WindSeeker, Delirium--granted that one was under two different owners, so I can't blame CF for that), it makes the variety that I can experience as a park-goer more limited.

It will be interesting to see if CF *finally* does use the "Banshee" name for something...instead of just their most frequenly used "teaser" name.

Again, just my thoughts...I'm far from an expert (I consider myself more of a "discerning consumer" :-))

jcgoble3, secondson, Tuskin and 1 other like this

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What if it is something like this?

Fits the area nicely. Fits the theme perfectly. Who can imagine what they can project inside the building with a Banshee theme. Could be stupendous if they make a really good track layout.

What about the footers from someone a little more in the know?

VerboltenComplete3.jpg

KIfan73 likes this

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Has anyone suggested that the Banshee trademark might be some new thing for Halloween Haunt at the Cedar Fair Parks?

Usually the haunt attractions have names that are places, where rides are proper nouns.

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Has any one seen the 2012 attendence report for theme parks? If you have then you know that Kings Island is neck and neck w/ Cedar Point. By like 15,000 guests. Now i know that this is after a year where there were no new attractions to both parks (water park excluded). Obviously for Cedar Point's attendance will go up because of Gatekeeper. Now i am only telling about this because if ki was to put in a wing rider like cp then the attendence figures would not really change. Cedar Point, to my surprise is ranked lower than two other cf parks (canadas wonderland and knotts). After cw installed their b&m giga their population increase was by 5%. Cw is actually the leader in Cedar Fair's park attendence. The point i'm getting at is that cp is probably not too happey that 2 of their other parks are above them in attendence and one is trailing behind them very closely. I dont think they are gonna build something like a giga or a wing b/c i think they are aiming at getting cp back on top. I believe in the invert idea because i think it would be a cool addition to the park. It isnt too extraordinary to be like "first in the industry" but a cool addition that alot of parks alreday have and somehow we don't.

Heres the link to the 2012 attendence report if anyone's interested. http://www.aecom.com/deployedfiles/Internet/Capabilities/Economics/_documents/2012%20Theme%20Index%20Combined_1-1_online.pdf

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^ I'm not sure CP will ever beat Knott's in attendance (due to both their operating calendar and HUGE metro market they pull from...)

I think your points might have some real validity if Kinzel was still in charge, but my gut-level is that Ouimet doesn't consider CP nearly the same "sacred cow" as the previous management...I think the strategy of the current management team is to maximize attendance/revenue at all/any parks--not to purposely position others in order to elevate CP (which may--or my not--have the intended impact anyway...)

I do agree that putting in a duplicate coaster (i.e., Gatekeeper) at both parks would probably have a net/net impact on attendance between CP & KI in the opening season, since the thought process of the GP would probably be "it's just the same ride." I think the real business goal is to grow the attendance revenue of BOTH parks by encouraging visits to both (as is illustrated in another topic currently trending on this site...the addition of a combo KI/CP ticket on sale at Kroger...)

TheCrypt and Diamondback96 like this

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The point i'm getting at is that cp is probably not too happey that 2 of their other parks are above them in attendence and one is trailing behind them very closely.

In 2011, KI and CP were tied in that report. In 2010, KI led CP. Canada's Wonderland owns a much larger market than either KI or CP, and Knott's is open year-round. These are third party estimates, so take it all with a grain of salt in any case.

CP's revenue leads KI's by a lot with similar attendance. This is likely possible because of on-site hotels at CP and the larger market that CP draws from. KI, in comparison, has a higher percentage of (mainly local) season pass visits.

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Has any one seen the 2012 attendence report for theme parks? If you have then you know that Kings Island is neck and neck w/ Cedar Point. By like 15,000 guests. Now i know that this is after a year where there were no new attractions to both parks (water park excluded). Obviously for Cedar Point's attendance will go up because of Gatekeeper. Now i am only telling about this because if ki was to put in a wing rider like cp then the attendence figures would not really change. Cedar Point, to my surprise is ranked lower than two other cf parks (canadas wonderland and knotts). After cw installed their b&m giga their population increase was by 5%. Cw is actually the leader in Cedar Fair's park attendence. The point i'm getting at is that cp is probably not too happey that 2 of their other parks are above them in attendence and one is trailing behind them very closely. I dont think they are gonna build something like a giga or a wing b/c i think they are aiming at getting cp back on top. I believe in the invert idea because i think it would be a cool addition to the park. It isnt too extraordinary to be like "first in the industry" but a cool addition that alot of parks alreday have and somehow we don't.

Heres the link to the 2012 attendence report if anyone's interested. http://www.aecom.com/deployedfiles/Internet/Capabilities/Economics/_documents/2012%20Theme%20Index%20Combined_1-1_online.pdf

Knott's is in the Los Angeles metro and is open year round (I think). Cedar Point is in northern Ohio in a small city and is only open for summer and one month in fall. Canada's Wonderland might be the only big amusement park in Canada and is also near a big metro area.

You can't compare it. Big difference.

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What if it is something like this?

Fits the area nicely. Fits the theme perfectly. Who can imagine what they can project inside the building with a Banshee theme. Could be stupendous if they make a really good track layout.

What about the footers from someone a little more in the know?

VerboltenComplete3.jpg

Where is this roller coaster located?

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Cedar Fair makes money regardless if one park draws more than another. Its not like cp is the favorite son. Ki probably has a bigger opportunity to grow. Under paramount our rides sucked. Cp used to be the park with most coasters everyone knows to go there.

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What if it is something like this?

Fits the area nicely. Fits the theme perfectly. Who can imagine what they can project inside the building with a Banshee theme. Could be stupendous if they make a really good track layout.

What about the footers from someone a little more in the know?

VerboltenComplete3.jpg

Where is this roller coaster located?
^Verbolten at Busch Gardens Williamsburg.

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Can we get a Mystery Construction 2013/14 section in the photos section of the site so we don't have to scroll through 80+ pages looking for a picture?

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Has any one seen the 2012 attendence report for theme parks? If you have then you know that Kings Island is neck and neck w/ Cedar Point. By like 15,000 guests. Now i know that this is after a year where there were no new attractions to both parks (water park excluded). Obviously for Cedar Point's attendance will go up because of Gatekeeper. Now i am only telling about this because if ki was to put in a wing rider like cp then the attendence figures would not really change. Cedar Point, to my surprise is ranked lower than two other cf parks (canadas wonderland and knotts). After cw installed their b&m giga their population increase was by 5%. Cw is actually the leader in Cedar Fair's park attendence. The point i'm getting at is that cp is probably not too happey that 2 of their other parks are above them in attendence and one is trailing behind them very closely. I dont think they are gonna build something like a giga or a wing b/c i think they are aiming at getting cp back on top. I believe in the invert idea because i think it would be a cool addition to the park. It isnt too extraordinary to be like "first in the industry" but a cool addition that alot of parks alreday have and somehow we don't.

Heres the link to the 2012 attendence report if anyone's interested. http://www.aecom.com/deployedfiles/Internet/Capabilities/Economics/_documents/2012%20Theme%20Index%20Combined_1-1_online.pdf

Knott's is in the Los Angeles metro and is open year round (I think). Cedar Point is in northern Ohio in a small city and is only open for summer and one month in fall. Canada's Wonderland might be the only big amusement park in Canada and is also near a big metro area.

You can't compare it. Big difference.

Cedar Point is less then 2 hours from Detroit, 2 hours from Ann Arbor, and about an 1hour and 15 minutes from Cleveland. Cedar Point also attracts guests from all over the world. Realistically it should be beating Canada's Wonderland attendance wise. I think the reason that it did not was because of the addition of Leviathan last year.

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