what would cedar point be today without intamin?

[Browntggrr]

SOB opened to rave reviews, weren't you in your diapers when it opened???

And then promptly closed for more repairs.

What is your fascination with unreliable rides?

[The Interpreter]

Rave reviews? I must have missed them. The ACE rep at the time, who truly loved the park, was reduced to saying "It's a wood coaster! I love wood coasters! And Kings Island has a new big wood coaster!"

[YoungStud]

Rave reviews? I must have missed them. The ACE rep at the time, who truly loved the park, was reduced to saying "It's a wood coaster! I love wood coasters! And Kings Island has a new big wood coaster!"

Son of Beast was a top 31 wooden coaster in the world in 2005...

http://www.goldenticketawards.com/issuearchive/2005gta/2005gta.pdf

[TheCrypt]

...according to the Golden Tickets.

Try finding a legitimate coaster poll. Look where it ended up on Mitch Hawker's, for instance.

[malem]

Bro,

There was a recent trip report where a kic'er said he was in line with a family from England and they came across to ride TTD. Also a family that travels past KI to go to CP cause of MF and TTD.

Word of mouth....

I never said that the family driving past KI to go to CP does so because of Millennium Force or Top Thrill Dragster. In fact, they specifically mentioned loving both Mean Streak and Mantis.

The family from England said that they were there for TTD, because it's the "biggest coaster". They weren't aware of Kingda Ka. I suspect it was the reputation of Cedar Point, specifically as a great park where the roller coasters are built bigger, that attracted them to Ohio.

Such market awareness existed before MF or TTD. Major advances in the industry and the growing popularity of the Internet made the early 2000s a great time to break records again. Those rides were big news well beyond Ohio, and they certainly renewed and expanded Cedar Point's brand. Which was already huge.

As long as they continue to innovate and stay relevant, it's is certain to remain huge. Whether or not they reclaim the record for tallest coaster. (The strategy for establishing a brand is often very different from the best strategy for maintaining and growing a brand. Current management understands this well.)

Where would Cedar Point be without Intamin? Probably somewhere near where they are now, still at the top of their industry.

</rant>

EDIT: Brown, you have broken HTML in your signature, near your Young*ud quote, causing the entire page following any of your posts to be bold. IPB isn't fixing it because you have too many nested tags.

[McSalsa]

^^
For the record, in that poll, Son of Beast placed 136th for wooden coasters in 2000, out of 163 coasters. It was the LOWEST ranking new-for-2000 wooden coaster in the poll. Here's a link to the 2000 wood poll, there was no steel poll in 2000: http://www.ushsho.com/wcprs00.txt

I'd also like to point out the Amusement Today Golden Ticket awards biggest flaw- they heavily favor rides and parks everyone has been to/ridden. This link can explain better than I can...

http://www.ushsho.com/pollcomparison.htm

I've learned polls aren't the be-all-end-all, and the results probably won't always reflect my own personal tastes and such, but the Mitch Hawker method is far superior to the Golden Ticket Awards methods, as it gives little-known and international rides a chance to step in the spotlight and doesn't favor coasters most would consider horrible just because they are at a big park like Cedar Point, Kings Island, one of the big Six Flags parks, etc.

UPDATE: I just noticed you listed the 2005 Golden Ticket Awards...well, here's the 2005 wood poll, which has Son of Beast as the #3 WORST wooden roller coaster in the world just ahead of SFMM's ill-fated Psyclone and CGA's Grizzly... http://www.ushsho.com/detailedwoodrollercoasterpollresults2005.htm

[YoungStud]

^^

For the record, in that poll, Son of Beast placed 136th for wooden coasters in 2000, out of 163 coasters. It was the LOWEST ranking new-for-2000 wooden coaster in the poll. Here's a link to the 2000 wood poll, there was no steel poll in 2000: http://www.ushsho.com/wcprs00.txt

I'd also like to point out the Amusement Today Golden Ticket awards biggest flaw- they heavily favor rides and parks everyone has been to/ridden. This link can explain better than I can...

http://www.ushsho.com/pollcomparison.htm

I've learned polls aren't the be-all-end-all, and the results probably won't always reflect my own personal tastes and such, but the Mitch Hawker method is far superior to the Golden Ticket Awards methods, as it gives little-known and international rides a chance to step in the spotlight and doesn't favor coasters most would consider horrible just because they are at a big park like Cedar Point, Kings Island, one of the big Six Flags parks, etc.

If the enthusiasts that vote are like they are here they just jump on the bandwagon of whatever ride it is.

UPDATE: I just noticed you listed the 2005 Golden Ticket Awards...well, here's the 2005 wood poll, which has Son of Beast as the #3 WORST wooden roller coaster in the world just ahead of SFMM's ill-fated Psyclone and CGA's Grizzly... http://www.ushsho.com/detailedwoodrollercoasterpollresults2005.htm

If the enthusiasts that vote are like they are here they just jump on the bandwagon of whatever ride it is.

[AintNutinElse2Do]

I'll not go into the reasons why the Hawker poll has at least became just as biased as the rest of them and so on. As for YoungStuds topic of question it's a fair one. I had only heard of Cedar Point after a special featuring Magnum. It wasn't until Millennium Force however that I kept up with the park. In my view no doubt those installs following put the point on the map for many. That said there would've likely been alternative additions. Had there been no Intamin at that time Millie may have happened but may have likely been a Morgan. TTD probably would've never happened as no one else seems to want to touch 400' so perhaps we would've seen S&S build something similar to Hypersonic and given it's outcome it may have already been gone. Wicked Twister may have went the route of a Vekoma GIB which I'd be fine with but again due to the reliability it may have also vanished by now. Now Maverick is the trickiest one to figure out, perhaps it could have went with Mack and would be equally as impressive, but Premier seems like a better possibilty. In which had it went with Premier it likely would still be a fun coaster but I'd guess it wouldn't be a top 10 coaster like many put Mav in now. So had these things happened as I've predicted in hindsight, I feel like the park could be perceived much differently than it stands today. I do think having the Intamins turned out to be the right choice for the parks growth. Granted I'm sure there could be other choices that could've made the park even better, such as a 4d in place of ttd.

[gad198]

Notice too that three of the Intamin coasters at the Point have some type of launch mechanism, something that most coaster manufacturers weren't doing at the time the coasters were installed. If Cedar Fair wanted a coaster that launched up until a few years ago there were only a few options - Intamin and Premier being the two big players. I'd also argue that the reason Cedar Fair went with Intamin for those over Premier is because the Premier launchers weren't exactly the most comfortable machines as far as guest comfort went, particularly before they were retrofitted with lap bars. Come to think of it...

Cedar Fair went on an Intamin kick from 2000 - 2007. They installed Millennium Force, two impulses (Wicked Twister & Steel Venom at VF), two rockets (Xcelerator & TTD), and a blitz (Maverick) - seven coasters in total. On the B&M side they only installed four during that same timeframe (Talon, Silver Bullet, Hydra & Patriot).

Look at what's happened since 2008. Intamin has installed one coaster at a Cedar Fair park (Intimidator 305) and five coasters total in the entire US. B&M has installed five in Cedar Fair parks alone (Behemoth, Diamondback, Intimidator at Carowinds, Leviathan, Gatekeeper) and looks like there's another coming to KI.

Have you heard of any of the above B&Ms having any major issues with uptime? Structural issues? Design flaws that required elements to be changed or reprofiled after the coaster opened? Intamin's coaster history in the US is riddled with those kinds of issues:

• Maverick heartline roll removed before the coaster opened
• I305 turn after the first hill reprofiled; trim brake sections moved and adjusted twice in opening year
• Cable issues. I believe that every Intamin coaster involving a cable in the US (except Skyrush and El Toro) has had a cable snap while operating
• Wicked Twister back spike reinforcements and need for continual rewelding

Those are just the Cedar Fair Intamin installs! It doesn't even address the issues with the water rides (Perilous Plunge anyone?) or other parks installs (Skyrush closing early last season, Kingda Ka being down for the last two months of the 2011 season).

One can argue that B&M rides aren't as thrilling relatively speaking, but one cannot deny that B&M installations don't cause the kind of problems inherit in many Intamins. I believe that B&M still has a perfect safety record. Intamin makes some great coasters, but I truly believe that most US parks now are starting to see what comes with Intamin products and are choosing to stay away by and large. You're seeing that with Cedar Fair right now. Cedar Fair seems to be employing a philosophy of waiting a little longer between big attractions but spending good money when they do. The last thing that Cedar Fair wants is to open up high dollar attractions with high degrees of uncertainty which is why GCI and B&M are on speed dial for them right now. As a park visitor I couldn't be more pleased about that since I know that when I go to a park I know those attractions will be open and operational.

[thedevariouseffect]

Spoken well.

Only thing that needs to be changed but I haven't seen Gatekeeper's panel yet I will here later in the season from a friend, but B&M control panels are a bit**. Controls for mantis just suck all around, worst panel designed honestly. Arrow coasters are my fav panels, short simple sweet.

[vortexfan]

I like the long, rambling responses in this thread that try so hard to discredit Intamin as a manufacturer and refuse to accept that Youngstud has a point (for once).

[thedevariouseffect]

I gave him his slight point, but I stated my opinion that arrow has done way more for the park than either B&M or Intamin

[YoungStud]

Lets look at this way. Which park would you go to?

Park A: B&M flyer, B&M floorless, B&M Hyper. (What CP could have got in the 2000's)

Park B: Intamin Giga, Intamin Accelerator(420'&120mph), Intamin Blitz coaster. (What CP received in the 2000's)

[Thrill_Biscuit]

"Cedar Nub?"

[Browntggrr]

Lets look at this way. Which park would you go to?

Park A: B&M flyer, B&M floorless, B&M Hyper. (What CP could have got in the 2000's)

Park B: Intamin Giga, Intamin Accelerator(420'&120mph), Intamin Blitz coaster. (What CP received in the 2000's)

If I have not been to either park?

Park A

I know the rides have better chance of operating then park B.

[TheCrypt]

Why would they get a B&M hyper when there's a great Arrow hyper in the back of the park?

[thedevariouseffect]

Honestly if it was all intmain or B&M, neither. Both companies have rides I prefer. I don't care for flyers, I like floorless and hypers, not a fan accelerators however, gigas are gigas regardless of who does them, and I've only been on maverick, no other rides similar yet.

However sadly like stated, any arrow to me is always a plus. I can ride corkscrew even to this day after test riding it and still love every second of it. Millie, only the first drop impresses me and the final airtime hill, that's it. Seriously though all manufacturers have merits, so not just intamin holds the answers, not all B&M's are the best. Each manufacturer has their shining examples, but they all have flaws. Except Chance, they're nothing but problems.

[LordSkippy]

What it comes down to is this: thinking about what Cedar Point would be if the Intamin coasters were never built is irrelevant because they were installed and there's nothing we can do about it.

I could understand the existence of this topic if it was an intelligent "alternate timeline" topic, but this is obviously just another attempt by YoungStud to shove his concept of Intamin superiority in our faces.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't care what company designed a ride as long as the ride provides a good ride experience, and anyone who thinks one particular company always provides a better ride experience than another doesn't get around enough.

[Vortex lover]

Like other people has said Someone else would have built it if intamin didn't build it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thedevariouseffect]

Zombie threads...why..

[The Interpreter]

It was a bumpy road....

[jcgoble3]