TombRaiderFTW Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I am glad to be visiting Busch Gardens Williamsburg for the first time this year, because it does seem like every installation from Europe In The Air onwards contradicts the "old world Europe" feel that I've always had the impression BGW exudes. Verbolten, Mach Tower, and London Rocks seem like they're interesting enough but would better fit in a "modern Europe"-themed park than somewhere with mythical Griffons and Loch Ness Monsters and old world architecture. Like Terp said, they feel an awful lot like the "cheap and cheerful" era of Paramount Parks. That being said... Will someone explain to me, someone who hasn't been to a Busch Gardens before, if the last few additions actually are poorly done, or do they just clash really badly with the existing park? POV's, for whatever those are worth, do make the rides appear decent enough, but that doesn't speak much to how they work with the rest of the park. (Heck, if there's one thing I've learned, it's that POV's will give you the wrong opinion of a ride or park before you get there. I thought El Toro and Boss looked somewhat boring and uninspired before I rode them. I've also been avoiding Curse of DarKastle POV's like the plague, because I want to go into that ride with no idea of what to expect.) The rumored Festa Italia coaster seems very out-of-place compared to the rest of the park, but for all I know, it could match the rest of Festa Italia perfectly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 If you have not been to Discovery Cove, GO! It is incredible. Everything I've seen about it looks incredibly boss. I think any notoriety of Blackfish will thin out, it hit the market, ran through the media course, and now.... is just another film. Anyone who wants to research captive orcas more eventually ends up reading both sides, if they are truly interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 If you have not been to Discovery Cove, GO! It is incredible. Everything I've seen about it looks incredibly boss. I think any notoriety of Blackfish will thin out, it hit the market, ran through the media course, and now.... is just another film. Anyone who wants to research captive orcas more eventually ends up reading both sides, if they are truly interested. Yes, anyone interested in orca captivity will read up on both sides. Problem is, not everyone who considers (or would have considered) a trip to SeaWorld is genuinely interested in orca captivity. In other words, you now have a very large group of half-educated people who don't think about orcas daily, monthly, or even yearly and don't really care to learn about the subject. But when someone suggests a trip to SeaWorld, they'll suddenly be very vocal. It doesn't take an informed person to make a decision. And yes, Discovery Cove is a must every time I go to Orlando. I did the dolphin experience the first time, and it was wonderful for what it is. Every time since, I've left it out. Without it, I think the all-inclusive day is in the mid-$100s? Which is very reasonable for what you get. The dolphins add $100 per person, and it's a really nice experience once or twice but not a must-do. The park is still magnificent without it. That being said... Will someone explain to me, someone who hasn't been to a Busch Gardens before, if the last few additions actually are poorly done, or do they just clash really badly with the existing park? POV's, for whatever those are worth, do make the rides appear decent enough, but that doesn't speak much to how they work with the rest of the park. (Heck, if there's one thing I've learned, it's that POV's will give you the wrong opinion of a ride or park before you get there. I thought El Toro and Boss looked somewhat boring and uninspired before I rode them. I've also been avoiding Curse of DarKastle POV's like the plague, because I want to go into that ride with no idea of what to expect.) The rumored Festa Italia coaster seems very out-of-place compared to the rest of the park, but for all I know, it could match the rest of Festa Italia perfectly. EH HEM. All your questions shall be revealed below. (No spoilers. Just trying to not clutter the topic on SEAS stock performance.) The park actually has two German areas which are officially "Oktoberfest" and "Rhinefeld." Oktoberfest is entered via the bridge from Italy (by the way, my suggestion for your route around the park the first time). Oktoberfest was always more modern, but was rebuilt from the ground up during Mach Tower's inaugural year. It's not any more modern now than it was then, and it was actually done really reverently and really well. The whole land is strung up with the same lights and garlands and crests and flags, all sort of culminating on Mach Tower (which is really superbly and uniquely decorated). So Oktoberfest is "cheap and cheerful" but not in an unpleasant way, I don't think. Many family flat rides are there, and it terminates in Das Festhaus, which from that point of view is a modern community house. The other land is the more reverent and historical and mythological one. That's entered via the floating boardwalk / stairs of doom from Scotland, and brings you up to the more authentic German village full of craftsmen and glockenspiels and the carousel. A wooded path then branches off and heads to DarKastle. That path also leads to Festhaus, but from THAT vantage point it's more of a historical community gathering place, and it still works. So as you can see in the map above, both German paths converge on Festhaus, and it makes sense from both of their stories and settings. Which is pretty smart when you think about it, and definitely accidental. DarKastle is part of Oktoberfest, but pretty well sectioned off and it has the vibe of the more historical German area. (By the way, I love DarKastle. But in recent years, its motion has been more or less gutted. Don't go into it expecting Spider-Man. Their excuse, no doubt, would be that it's geared toward a more family audience, but during its early years it swooped, rocked, spun, jolted, and slammed just like Spider-Man does. It's a GREAT ride and I know you'll LOVE the story, but just don't go into it for a Spider-Man type experience. It's a different application of the technology now. Even on your first ride, you'll have a sense of "I bet you used to spin here." You'll know what I mean.) Europe in the Air is odd man out for sure. The Ireland land is tiny, but REALLY well-done and beautiful. Corkscrew Hill was a natural fit - you were shrunk and put into a matchbox and then stolen by a griffon and given to a witch, etc. A great ride to tell Irish folklore. Europe is the Air is shoe-horned into Corkscrew Hill's ancient Irish castle. The queue - a Crypt-like winding cave - remains exactly as it was with ancient Celtic symbols on it, but with added "airport" style lights screwed into the cave walls. It's absurd. The pre-shows are shoe-horned in and laughable. And worse, the ride itself is abysmal. Just like how Germany is divided into a "reverent" and "playful" side, Italy is, too. But like Oktoberfest, Festa Italia is still rooted in reality. It's supposed to be a festival thrown for Marco Polo as he departs for his journeys. So yeah, it amounts to a glorified carnival, and that's where the park's games are. But even the games are Roman-themed, and the whole land is united in a style of purple and gold tents, Roman pillars, and beautiful trees and landscaping. It's hard to find the entrance to Apollo's Chariot between all the tents and trees. So yes, it's a carnival. But it's still got an internal story of Marco Polo's journey, and that story is told throughout the land... except in this supposed new coaster, which will have literal motocross biker silhouettes, flaming hoops, and gritty "x-treme" fonts. So yes, it's the tackiest of the park's areas, but it's NOT modern and abrasive... At least, not in 2014. From the article The Interpreter linked to earlier: It's making a bad situation worse for the sake of capital preservation, and that's a strategy that rarely pays off in the long haul. Doesn't this just seem obvious? I guess not if the owners are frantically looking for a way out, which may be the case... If we're being honest, their biggest and most succinct attempt at something was Empire of the Penguins, which seems to have been running on fumes from the get-go. It seems investment just isn't in their cards. Not the kind these parks need and deserve, anyway. Shameful. Disney Parks once had a chairman named Paul Pressler with a similar strategy. Cut investment and reduce expenses. Install nothing new. Remove excess. Cut budgets. Revamp merchandise and operations to favor inexpensive knick knacks and quantity-over-quality. "Cheap and cheerful," you might say. Lightbulbs burnt out and were left dark. Gardens were untended. Pressler's own direction filled Disney's California Adventure with more shops and restaurants than rides - quick money! Big returns! Mr. Pressler was also the brains behind New Tomorrowland 1998. Lots of flash for little cash. The numbers look good for a few quarters... Record profit! Then it nose-dived. He fled in 2002, moving in as CEO of Gap, Inc. where he did... almost exactly the same thing, to almost exactly the same results. If you're interested in Disney, Mr. Pressler's time in the industry, or his particular style of strategy, I HIGHLY encourage you to read this article. What've Gap and Disney got to do with SeaWorld Parks? Different stories, different problems, same basic issue embedded in there... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovinMeSomeBanshee Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 SeaWorld Entertainment CEO just announced they are greatly expanding their orca habitats in San Diego by 2018, then Orlando and San Antonio later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 PR attempt to deaden bad publicity? I'd like to think not, but... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 The orca habitat is definitely the least appealing. In terms of SeaWorld being a really good zoo, the orcas are the one habitat where it's like "ehhh...." It's just a big blue pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidd33 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 If the expansion/addition of the Orca habitat looks anywhere near the concept art I think it will be a huge success for Sea World. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I came here to remark on this. A great big habitat with a great big viewing area. I still wish we could watch them online. Watching live-stream cameras is great while I'm working, except for that one Grampa Munster penguin that sits right in front of the camera. Even if it is to deflect bad PR, the whales don't care, they get bigger space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faeriewench Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I came here to remark on this. A great big habitat with a great big viewing area. I still wish we could watch them online. Watching live-stream cameras is great while I'm working, except for that one Grampa Munster penguin that sits right in front of the camera. Even if it is to deflect bad PR, the whales don't care, they get bigger space. It's not random though. For example plans to work on the habitats/adding another pool at the Texas park had existed, issue is building something to withstand the floodings the park gets which is why you do not get the underwater viewing opportunities there like you would in San Diego or Orlando. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 You are right, I didn't think about that. It takes quite a few years to engineer something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I came here to remark on this. A great big habitat with a great big viewing area. I still wish we could watch them online. Watching live-stream cameras is great while I'm working, except for that one Grampa Munster penguin that sits right in front of the camera. Even if it is to deflect bad PR, the whales don't care, they get bigger space. In addition to bigger space, they get toys, jets, streams to swim in, deeper pools to play in, etc. SO much better than the current circular blue pools. Much more engaging. The fact they can actually swim instead of just floating is a hugely important thing. Again, not sure why they were kept in such a "primitive zoo" exhibit to begin with. In retrospect even now, it seems a little absurd. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faeriewench Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I came here to remark on this. A great big habitat with a great big viewing area. I still wish we could watch them online. Watching live-stream cameras is great while I'm working, except for that one Grampa Munster penguin that sits right in front of the camera. Even if it is to deflect bad PR, the whales don't care, they get bigger space. In addition to bigger space, they get toys, jets, streams to swim in, deeper pools to play in, etc. SO much better than the current circular blue pools. Much more engaging. The fact they can actually swim instead of just floating is a hugely important thing. Again, not sure why they were kept in such a "primitive zoo" exhibit to begin with. In retrospect even now, it seems a little absurd. Uh, what makes you think they don't get their toys now? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTD-120-420 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 While this is good for the whales, I do not see this being a big draw. This is not going to keep the attendance from falling again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Well, for me it's a plus; I want to see the animals swim around and play. In a way, I'm glad I didn't reach my goal yet, because I would like to see a great big huge wall of orcas, where before, I'd be able to see them through the viewing window I've seen in videos. I'm not interested in the musical shows as much as just watching them. With the upgrade, I'd be able to stand and stare and not worry about blocking a little kid that wants to see them, too. For me, Seaworld is cool and swanky because they rehab animals, I follow their Twitter, FB and get the emails, so I get all the news of seals going back to the sea. They are doing more than a lot of animal welfare services out there. I think the PR was late in refuting Blackfish, but it seems they've done more to put their message out. The problem with that is only the people that want to subscribe to their social feeds are the ones getting the message they already know. Only the people that like what Seaworld is doing are seeing the freed manatees. This is just going to cause me to put more spare cash in my bucket list bucket to get there. GYC is right, it's more of a zoo than a park. I'm not interested in the rides so much, except for the penguin exhibit, and I'm a rides person. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faeriewench Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Well, for me it's a plus; I want to see the animals swim around and play. In a way, I'm glad I didn't reach my goal yet, because I would like to see a great big huge wall of orcas, where before, I'd be able to see them through the viewing window I've seen in videos. I'm not interested in the musical shows as much as just watching them. With the upgrade, I'd be able to stand and stare and not worry about blocking a little kid that wants to see them, too. For me, Seaworld is cool and swanky because they rehab animals, I follow their Twitter, FB and get the emails, so I get all the news of seals going back to the sea. They are doing more than a lot of animal welfare services out there. I think the PR was late in refuting Blackfish, but it seems they've done more to put their message out. The problem with that is only the people that want to subscribe to their social feeds are the ones getting the message they already know. Only the people that like what Seaworld is doing are seeing the freed manatees. This is just going to cause me to put more spare cash in my bucket list bucket to get there. GYC is right, it's more of a zoo than a park. I'm not interested in the rides so much, except for the penguin exhibit, and I'm a rides person. There's nothing wrong to feel this way, as I am the same way. I like tamer rides better and those seem to be disappearing... All my favorite parks have more tame rides than roller coasters, the environments of those places feel much more relaxed and that's what I like. I do not care about coasters doing backflips over the front gate. I'd rather SeaWorld build flat rides rather than more coasters atm, I'd always thought it be cool to be if something like Supreme Scream (or Power Tower whatever you most familiar with) were to appear, but that's just me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieseltech20 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I'm not interested in the rides so much, except for the penguin exhibit, and I'm a rides person. The penguin exhibit is too cool. Add the Ray tank and Manta and I was in Heaven. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 So, are they going to recover, and if so, now would be the right time to buy stock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Well, for me it's a plus; GYC is right, it's more of a zoo than a park. I'm not interested in the rides so much, except for the penguin exhibit, and I'm a rides person. There's nothing wrong to feel this way, as I am the same way. I like tamer rides better and those seem to be disappearing... All my favorite parks have more tame rides than roller coasters, the environments of those places feel much more relaxed and that's what I like. I do not care about coasters doing backflips over the front gate. I'd rather SeaWorld build flat rides rather than more coasters atm, I'd always thought it be cool to be if something like Supreme Scream (or Power Tower whatever you most familiar with) were to appear, but that's just me. I've got great rides here in Ohio, and we have the Newport Aquarium, but we lack what Seaworld has. Do you think they will phase out whale shows? The other animal shows don't seem to be in peril from activists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdf21972 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I miss Sea World in Ohio 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vortexfan Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 PR attempt to deaden bad publicity? I'd like to think not, but... Well, now the new orca habitats are "trending" on my Facebook, and many sites sharing the story seem to be directly attributing the habitat expansion to Blackfish criticism. If this is a PR attempt to deaden bad publicity, it could potentially backfire completely. SEAS definitely has a long uphill battle to recovery.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I miss Sea World in Ohio Evidently, I did, too. My parents brushed that gig off when I brought it up. Vortexfan, I suspect there are people in the world that are always going to focus on the sticky end of the lollipop. If the group that produced Blackfish got their way, and the whales were freed, not only would they focus on a larger group of animals in their next bid, but if anything happened to the whales in the open sea, they would still place the blame on Seaworld. There are some people that will do anything to wipe the smiles off of people's faces. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieseltech20 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Most of the Sea World hate extends to everything they do. People get really upset about them having dolphins as well. I had to stop following a couple "celebs" on FB because they would not shut up. Their posts of course generate thousands of idiotic responses. People only focus on the negative and ignore all the positives. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faeriewench Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I miss Sea World in Ohio Evidently, I did, too. My parents brushed that gig off when I brought it up. Vortexfan, I suspect there are people in the world that are always going to focus on the sticky end of the lollipop. If the group that produced Blackfish got their way, and the whales were freed, not only would they focus on a larger group of animals in their next bid, but if anything happened to the whales in the open sea, they would still place the blame on Seaworld. There are some people that will do anything to wipe the smiles off of people's faces. Russia captured more orcas...apparently without permit this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vortexfan Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Vortexfan, I suspect there are people in the world that are always going to focus on the sticky end of the lollipop. If the group that produced Blackfish got their way, and the whales were freed, not only would they focus on a larger group of animals in their next bid, but if anything happened to the whales in the open sea, they would still place the blame on Seaworld. I don't disagree. My point is that it's just too, too easy for SeaWorld haters to take this announcement and skew it to confirm their own biases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 To me, the question is a simple one. Were there no Blackfish, would SeaWorld be doing this? And my answer, which saddens me, is I just don't know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faeriewench Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 In all honesty I feel like they need to be building all new bigger complexes than what they got the whales in now to have them in and give their current ones to the dolphins. But I doubt that will ever happen. As much as I miss having a SeaWorld in Ohio, if it were still open and no updates to those facilities, I doubt I would have supported that park as much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kenneth-lerer/the-end-of-seaworld_b_5680119.html Right wrong or indifferent, this is the view many in the public are starting to share... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 To me, the question is a simple one. Were there no Blackfish, would SeaWorld be doing this? And my answer, which saddens me, is I just don't know. That's a good point. Even if they didn't, it can be construed as if it were.There's mini-scuba tanks on the trainers now, which the park said was in response to the death of one of the trainers. That also seems as a response to the activists, and OSHA. (I never did learn what happened to the wine and dine OSHA lady...) I don't think the park is finished, as wished for in the Huffpo article. Wishful thinking doesn't make it so. They just need to bring awareness to their plusses. The announcement came with a lot of artists' renderings of the new attraction, but maybe the old Walt Disney style "Men in suits meeting during planning stages with dates added" wouls help at this point, if this were in the planning stage before Blackfish. The year Blackfish came out, they unveiled that Arctic Zone penguin ride, and thst wasn't nailed together out of used trailers, that took some thought. Maybe it's just bad timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 I'd be more inclined to believe this if the changes were to be implemented in 2015. They are years out. San Diego by 2018, with the others even further out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I'd be more inclined to believe this if the changes were to be implemented in 2015. They are years out. San Diego by 2018, with the others even further out. Maybe it's Bubble Thinking at it's finest. The people that are running the place think what they have is fine the way it is, until they themselves trip on the carpet. Faeriewench isn't the only person who notes the dolphin tank is too crowded, but there the dolphins are, in that tank, crowded. Sometimes there's a problem in businesses where there needs to be a few people that are slightly disgruntled and want change, but not disgruntled enough to take part in a film that slams the company. Hard balance. Maybe you are right about the timing- someone noted there wasn't a lot of open space, then they rushed to shut people up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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