Mantis and Rougarou: Separate Credits or Not?

[jcgoble3]

Exactly what it says on the tin. Are they two separate credits because of the different type of trains, or one single credit because the track is the same? Let the debate begin!

(Yes, I'm a credit whore. )

[Hoeter]

I would call it a separate credit due to the fact that it currently sits as a stand-up coaster but come Spring it will be a floorless model. Completely different experience.

I would also say that Son of Beast would not have counted as two separate credits. The 2000-2006 version and the loop and the 2007-2009 version without.

EDIT: Upon further thought, the change to Son of Beast only affected several hundred or thousand feet so I don't think it should count as two separate ones.

[homestar92]

I do track my credits (because any excuse to make a spreadsheet is A-OK in my book!) but I tend to be very conservative in my counting.

Racer is 1. Gemini is 1. Kennywood Racer is 1 (though in this case, it truly is ONE roller coaster no matter how you try to slice it). Surf Dog/Pipe Scream do not count. Heck, I don't even count Thunder Run (of the Canadian variety. The one in the Hartland does count, of course).

As such, you can imagine why I would say that no, it is not a new credit. If you rode The Beast in 1979, the trains had four rows per car and the helix wasn't enclosed. Does that count as an additional credit, too?

[The Interpreter]

It's steel. It's not Volcano: The Blast Coaster. Nor is it The Matterhorn. Not a hyper or giga either.

Therefore, Terp doesn't count the old Mantis and won't count G-it's-new.

[coasterfanatic83]

I would say that they are different. It should be a totally new ride experience now.

[purdude86]

I think it will depend on how greatly the ride experience itself changes. I'm more inclined to say no since it is the same track. For instance I don't think I'd count SOB as two just because it lost the loop. All but a few seconds of the ride was the same so don't think it was different enough. However when Racer went forwards and backwards I'd count them as separate ones, but as it stands now it's only one.

[Hank]

Well, they painted Top Gun and called it Flight Deck.

They painted it again and call it The Bat.

Same trains, same ride experience (unless you think the paint makes it smoother...which brings to mind.....if a coaster is re-tracked, is it the same coaster?....it has a different ride experience.....so, if the trains are changed - as in The Beast and now on Mantis - I will rely on Terp's infinite, and finite, wisdom).

My answer......Terp, I'm waiting!

[CoasterMyths79]

I say seprerate, only because the floorless should hurt less.

[Hoeter]

Well, they painted Top Gun and called it Flight Deck.

They painted it again and call it The Bat.

Same trains, same ride experience (unless you think the paint makes it smoother...which brings to mind.....if a coaster is re-tracked, is it the same coaster?....it has a different ride experience.....so, if the trains are changed - as in The Beast and now on Mantis - I will rely on Terp's infinite, and finite, wisdom).

My answer......Terp, I'm waiting!

I didn't count Flight Deck and The Bat as two separate credits. It's the same ride experience, just a different color and a new name.

My personal opinion...if it drastically changes the ride experience as the Mantis to Rougarou conversion will, I count each as a different credit. If the ride is retracked like The Beast and The Racer I don't think it should count as a new credit, same as when Son of Beast switched from the Premier Trains to the Gerstlauer ones.

I would like to see Don chime in on this with his thoughts...

[MDMC01]

Personally, I'm not going to count Rougarou as a new credit; I didn't count Son of Beast as a new credit when it lost its loop. However, I did make the distinction in my list I keep that I rode it both with the loop and without the loop. Same thing when the right side of The Racer's train was turned from backwards to forwards. So, just like Son of Beast, I'd make it a point to say that I rode Mantis/Rougarou with both the stand-up and floorless trains (and not actually make Mantis and Rougarou separate credits). When thinking on this question shortly after the announcement, I came to my above conclusion as I know there are some coasters in Japan that have both a stand-up and sit-down train. If I rode both of the trains while at the park, I'd count the coaster as one credit, not two different credits because one train is stand-up and one is sit-down.

*EDIT: Also, even though I've only ridden one side of Thunder Road at Carowinds, I still count this as a full credit (not a half credit); but again, like Son of Beast and the Backwards Racer, I did make a note in my list that I've only ridden the left side of Thunder Road.

[The Interpreter]

What would you have done with Rolling Thunder--a racing coaster where each side was unique? Some said two, some said one, Terp still sobs.

[BoddaH1994]

I'm not a "coaster credit" type of guy, so take this for what it's worth.

To me, having a new style of trains is a completely different ride experience. I'd consider this more of a new credit than riding a relocated ride in two locations.

[shark6495]

Lets put it this way. If you never rodE Mantis, would you say you did just because you rode Rog...

[Coasterama]

Would you count the Texas Giant and the New Texas Giant as a single credit? I would say no, because the 2 rides provide completely different experience; the same is to be said with Mantis and Rougarou.

[The Interpreter]

To me, that's simple. Texas Giant was wood. New Texas Giant is steel. Totally different experiences.

I count Texas Giant. Since new Texas Giant is neither Volcano: The Blast Coaster nor The Matterhorn nor a hyper nor giga, I still don't count it.

[MDMC01]

What would you have done with Rolling Thunder--a racing coaster where each side was unique? Some said two, some said one, Terp still sobs.

I would have counted Rolling Thunder as 1 credit (even if I would have just ridden one side), but would have specified which side I rode as I do for Racer, Gemini and other racing coasters. I just thought about a possible exception to my racing coaster rule... mobius racers. I suppose Racer at Kennywood would be 1/2 a credit for each side (equaling a full coaster credit) since their racer (as in, racing coaster, not the ride) has one track and not two separate tracks.

[purdude86]

If each side was truly different then I'd count it as two separate credits. Like Dueling Dragons at Universal, they race and duel with one another (or at least used to) but are completely different rides.

As for the RM makeovers those are completely different from the Mantis/Rougarou situation. There the track and layout is changing drastically plus going from wood track to steel. Whereas Rougarou is just getting new trains on the exact same track with the same layout.

[The Interpreter]

What would you have done with Rolling Thunder--a racing coaster where each side was unique? Some said two, some said one, Terp still sobs.

I would have counted Rolling Thunder as 1 credit (even if I would have just ridden one side), but would have specified which side I rode as I do for Racer, Gemini and other racing coasters. I just thought about a possible exception to my racing coaster rule... mobius racers. I suppose Racer at Kennywood would be 1/2 a credit for each side (equaling a full coaster credit) since their racer (as in, racing coaster, not the ride) has one track and not two separate tracks.

And you do this even though after the first drop, Rolling Thunder's two sides were completely different until they approached the brake runs? One would have a hill where the other dropped, etc.

[BB1]

Same track=same credit

[MDMC01]

What would you have done with Rolling Thunder--a racing coaster where each side was unique? Some said two, some said one, Terp still sobs.

I would have counted Rolling Thunder as 1 credit (even if I would have just ridden one side), but would have specified which side I rode as I do for Racer, Gemini and other racing coasters. I just thought about a possible exception to my racing coaster rule... mobius racers. I suppose Racer at Kennywood would be 1/2 a credit for each side (equaling a full coaster credit) since their racer (as in, racing coaster, not the ride) has one track and not two separate tracks.

And you do this even though after the first drop, Rolling Thunder's two sides were completely different until they approached the brake runs? One would have a hill where the other dropped, etc.

Yes, I would. I would also counting dueling coasters as one credit, but specify in my list which side I've ridden. An exception to this rule would be Primeval Whirl at Disney's Animal Kingdom as RCDB counts the ride(s) as two separate coasters (http://rcdb.com/1868.htm). In that case, I'd have to count each ride as a separate credit.

EDIT: Another tough case would be Battlestar Galactica at Universal Studios Singapore, which consists of two different coaster track types dueling each other (inverted vs. sit-down). I'm not sure whether I'd count this as one credit or two as it is a dueling coaster yet the tracks that are dueling are completely different ride styles.

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

I will give you all credit for riding more coasters than me.

[shark6495]

If each side was truly different then I'd count it as two separate credits. Like Dueling Dragons at Universal, they race and duel with one another (or at least used to) but are completely different rides.

As for the RM makeovers those are completely different from the Mantis/Rougarou situation. There the track and layout is changing drastically plus going from wood track to steel. Whereas Rougarou is just getting new trains on the exact same track with the same layout.

Same track=same credit

Then in theory, you could only count FoF one time, no matter where you rode it, or any other cloned rides anywhere else right? I mean its the same track layout just in different place.....

[BeastForever]

To me, this area is as gray as whether to call coasters like Outlaw Run wood or steel...

[homestar92]

If each side was truly different then I'd count it as two separate credits. Like Dueling Dragons at Universal, they race and duel with one another (or at least used to) but are completely different rides.

As for the RM makeovers those are completely different from the Mantis/Rougarou situation. There the track and layout is changing drastically plus going from wood track to steel. Whereas Rougarou is just getting new trains on the exact same track with the same layout.

Same track=same credit

Then in theory, you could only count FoF one time, no matter where you rode it, or any other cloned rides anywhere else right? I mean its the same track layout just in different place.....

For me, same track LAYOUT =/= same ride (IE, clones). Same track (as in, literally the EXACT same structure) == the same ride, even after relocation or a change in trains (IE, X-Flight and Firehawk are one credit no matter where it was ridden). Racing coasters are one credit. Dueling coasters... I'll have to think about. Never ridden one, so it doesn't matter to me right now. IF the Hartland makes it to 2016, Stella and Lola will likely be my first dueling coaster(s).

Would any of you two-credit people consider the Kennywood Racer as two coasters? Would Voyage be a new credit if the Timberliners had worked out?

Heck, let's say T3 opens next year with Vekoma's new trains with the vest restraints a la Fly - The Great Nor'easter. Would you count T2 and T3 separately? I wouldn't.

At the end of the day, there's no right or wrong. How YOU count it (or don't) is up to YOU. Just remember that if you and a friend were to compare your coaster counts, an agreement should probably be made as to how you will count them.

[kblanken]

I keep track of my ride count, not really to keep a tally, but instead so that I am aware of what I haven't ridden. Clinical lycanthropy aside, I will consider this a ride not ridden. (I have already been on Mantis.)

//////

Would any of you two-credit people consider the Kennywood Racer as two coasters?

And would they also consider the track between the Flight of Fear station unload and the loading area a second credit?

[shark6495]

Honestly I have never kept track of rides and will probably never do so. Too much work for my brain.

However, a ride moving with the same trains to another place shouldn't be different.

However , when a ride changes trains which drastically changes the ride experience, then well it should probably be a new credit. We are not talking taking a suspended Arrow and giving it a floorless, or changing from 4 rows to 3. We are talking stand up to sit down. Different ride completely, IMHO.

[jcgoble3]

Would any of you two-credit people consider the Kennywood Racer as two coasters?

I would. For "double" coasters, one credit for me is defined as the experience of going through the line once, loading, riding, and unloading. If, after that, I have to get off and go around to wait in line again to experience the second half, then it's a separate credit to me, regardless of if it's a single continuous track.

[Creed Bratton]

I say no. You're going to be traveling on the same layout, same track as you would have on Mantis. Yes, Floorless trains give you a different experience, but do you count it as a new credit each time you ride in a new seat (standing or sitting) for a different experience? No.

[TTD-120-420]

If each side was truly different then I'd count it as two separate credits. Like Dueling Dragons at Universal, they race and duel with one another (or at least used to) but are completely different rides.

As for the RM makeovers those are completely different from the Mantis/Rougarou situation. There the track and layout is changing drastically plus going from wood track to steel. Whereas Rougarou is just getting new trains on the exact same track with the same layout.

Same track=same credit

Then in theory, you could only count FoF one time, no matter where you rode it, or any other cloned rides anywhere else right? I mean its the same track layout just in different place.....

For me, same track LAYOUT =/= same ride (IE, clones). Same track (as in, literally the EXACT same structure) == the same ride, even after relocation or a change in trains (IE, X-Flight and Firehawk are one credit no matter where it was ridden). Racing coasters are one credit. Dueling coasters... I'll have to think about. Never ridden one, so it doesn't matter to me right now. IF the Hartland makes it to 2016, Stella and Lola will likely be my first dueling coaster(s).

Would any of you two-credit people consider the Kennywood Racer as two coasters? Would Voyage be a new credit if the Timberliners had worked out?

Heck, let's say T3 opens next year with Vekoma's new trains with the vest restraints a la Fly - The Great Nor'easter. Would you count T2 and T3 separately? I wouldn't.

At the end of the day, there's no right or wrong. How YOU count it (or don't) is up to YOU. Just remember that if you and a friend were to compare your coaster counts, an agreement should probably be made as to how you will count them.

Timberliners wouldn't be a new credit because you are still in the same riding position.

No one has (comfortably) sat down on Mantis before. Changing it to floorless is completely changing the whole ride (from unbearable to enjoyable, presumably). Would Sheikra count as two when it changed from standard dive trains to floorless? No, because you are still in the same position.

Just my two cents. I couldn't care less about credits. I guess that makes me a credit nun?

[KIBeast]

New experience, new credit.