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Countdown to Opening Day for the 2021 Season: May 15th 11:00 AM!

Kings Island is now open for 2021.

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I would venture to say that they haven`t updated the operating calendar.  They have been working hard to get this nighttime show going at Animal Kingdom, and together with the nighttime safaris, are trying to turn this park into more of an all day park.

 

Yes, there may have been some budget cuts, but as far as I know, those were mostly related to entertainment (meet and greets), and not a reduction in hours.  (Granted, I do believe that the second nightly Fantasmic show is one of the cuts.)  Still seems odd that they would cut budgets at the domestic parks to compensate for cost over runs at an abroad park.  Especially given how the domestic parks continue to be successful.

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While I wouldn't choose the system myself, I would argue that it DOES make your vacation simpler.   You pre-book your flight, right?   You pre-book your transportation.   You pre-book your hotel

I'm not sure I agree with that. Yes, if the choice is food, shelter or Disney, I agree. But small choices over time can make what is for some a once in a lifetime trip obtainable. No Coke in the

Others have made many of the valid points I was going to reply with, but let me just add this and you tell me which one is better.     When visiting the Magic Kingdom this past December there were 2

But then again, it was the financial collapse of Disneyland Paris that led to the cancellation of... well... just about every stateside Disney Parks project for the better part of a decade starting in the early 1990s. It's not very intuitive, but it definitely happens.

 

Even if it's not because of a shortage of money (which, let's face it, it's not in Disney's case), an overrun elsewhere can also change the mindset of those at the top. The Walt Disney Company was not bankrupted by the failure of Disneyland Paris, but it DID make those in power take a step back and reevaluate their priorities, their abilities, and the limits of what a private company can do. 

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Not unlike the attempted sellout of Cedar Fair to Apollo Gobal by D. Kinzel focused the Knott family, Geoff Raynor and Q Investments on the corporate governance of FUN and whether the despot who attempted to sell out the unitholders of FUN for his own and family's personal benefit was the right person to steer the company forward and whether his hand picked country club board also needed to be shown the seventh portal.

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The FP+ tweaking continues down in Lake Buena Vista, just in time for the summer season.  In a nutshell-better time flexibility when choosing your initial 3 rides/experiences, the ability to book 1, 2 or 3 initial FP+ instead of 3, and the ability to use your smartphone and the MDE app instead of park kiosks to choose your next FP+ upon the exhaustion of your initial allotment.

 

See http://attractionsmagazine.com/new-fastpass-options-coming-my-disney-experience/

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The kiosks were the worst part of the system (imo). It will be nice to be able to book them off of the phone. You could almost walk on the ride with your final FP+ ride and while you are in line you can book your next ride. Cool stuff.

It will never happen but it would be nice to always be able to have 3 queues lined up. When you have 2 left you can book the third etc...

I know this is done to to keep people in shops longer but it makes it so much easier with a group of people (old and young) knowing you have time for a bathroom break or get a pop or shop and you won't "lose" your spot in line.

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Theoretically, the ability to only go one at a time is a real benefit to those early risers who hit the park for Extra Magic Hours, or at rope drop, since you'll now be able to keep booking FP at a faster clip than if you had to book 3 rides back to back to back, which had meant not being able to get into the system again until 2-3 hours after the park opens, which, as we all know, really bumped the next available FP time out (depending on the ride) to later in the day. I can attest that having an hours-long window btwn your 3rd and 4th FP was not very fun or enjoyable.  Speaking of early risers, now Disney wants those not staying on property to pay for the privilege of entering early: 

 

http://fortune.com/2016/04/07/disney-early-morning-surcharge/

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This article doesn't say anything about the early entry upcharge only applying to people staying off property.  It kind of sounds like it would apply to everyone that wanted it.  The early entry includes breakfast and access to 3 rides. 

 

Even though this article doesn't mention it only applying to off-property visitors, I wouldn't put it past them.  It's getting to the point where people staying off-property are treated as outsiders even though they're buying the same ticket to get into the parks.  I'm waiting for the day where you won't even be allowed to enter the park unless you've spent the night at one of their overpriced "budget" hotels.

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Logically, this upcharge as it currently stands can only apply to those staying off property.  For example, Morning Extra Magic Hours at the MK are usually 8-9 with rope drop at 9.  For $69 a pop, is an average family going to shell that out for the ability to ride 3 FL rides, plus what will certainly be a continental-type bfast?  It's basically gaining entry at 7:45 Am for off property guests who pay, or free at 8 AM if staying on property.  Disney's logical way around this would be to only offer the upcharge on days not featuring Morning Extra Magic Hours at the MK, but that hasn't been announced as of yet.

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I had a nice long response type out and it deleted it.

Ugh

Anyways the extended hours look to be on Tues and Sat. So maybe it's a good breakfast (for the price maybe it's similar to Hollywood and Vine) with a good breakfast.

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And the whole Disney is too expensive thing I don't get because it's as expensive as you want to make it.

I did a quick price check for a week in June. Both were for the cheapest (110/night) room, for 2 adults and 2 teenagers. One was just room and tickets.

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That's 78.50 per person per day for 7 days.

The other included Disney Dining (1 quick and 1 sit down) and a memory maker.

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That's about 152 per person per day. Not a terrible price when compared that you could spend $43 for a day at KI and if you eat in the park two meals you could spend an additional $30. Plus photos and maybe hotel?

But my wife and I did buy into the Vacation Club to help off set hotel costs. When all is said and done over the lifetime of the DVC we will have spent (cost to purchase plus yearly maintenance fees) about 450-500/year for about a weeks worth of vacation hotel space each year and at some of the nicer Disney Hotels as well (we are booking for December at either Port Orleans, grand Floridian, Beach Club, or Contemporary). So maybe that's a sound investment maybe not.

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Logically, this upcharge as it currently stands can only apply to those staying off property.  For example, Morning Extra Magic Hours at the MK are usually 8-9 with rope drop at 9.  For $69 a pop, is an average family going to shell that out for the ability to ride 3 FL rides, plus what will certainly be a continental-type bfast?  It's basically gaining entry at 7:45 Am for off property guests who pay, or free at 8 AM if staying on property.  Disney's logical way around this would be to only offer the upcharge on days not featuring Morning Extra Magic Hours at the MK, but that hasn't been announced as of yet.

That's been my assumption that the upcharge early open would be for days that do not have Extra Magic Hours for resort guests. Will keep resort guests happy with their free early entry without non-resort guests getting in line early too, plus less hassle of determining who paid for breakfast and who is just a resort guest. Also have to figure out how to keep non resort guests confined to just those three rides veruss the others throughout the park.

Also they could then charge resort guests for this extra early admission if they want to do it.

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Speaking of early risers, now Disney wants those not staying on property to pay for the privilege of entering early: 

 

http://fortune.com/2016/04/07/disney-early-morning-surcharge/

 

That article drives me so crazy, because it talks about costs in terms of a single-day ticket. It complains about a single-day Park Hopper ticket plus Early Morning Magic costing $900 for a family of four. But how many people really buy single-day tickets? I would imagine that the vast majority of people buy multi-day tickets, which results in a MAJOR reduction in per-day costs over a single-day ticket. So the cost calculations in that article are way off from reality. (And if you're that person who does buy single-day tickets, either you have a lot of money to waste, or you're doing it wrong.)

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Breakfast is at the Pinocchio Village Haus, which is a Quick-Service venue.  The burger bar inside could easily be swapped out for a breakfast buffet like you'd find elsewhere, so you're looking at scrambled eggs, bacon, etc.  The idea is to ride the 3 rides in FL as much as possible, so I doubt a family wanting to do so is going to spend time eating a sit down breakfast.  They can walk about 500 feet down the path to BOG if it's fine dining they suggest (sorry Lumiere!)

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Terp if that's towards me please don't take what I say as it's affordable compared to Strickers Grove (and some would argue you could have more fun there than at WDW).

But it's relatively affordable based on what I said. WDW is expensive but if you want to go and do things it can be cheaper or more expensive depending on your individual wants and priorities.

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Logically, this upcharge as it currently stands can only apply to those staying off property. For example, Morning Extra Magic Hours at the MK are usually 8-9 with rope drop at 9. For $69 a pop, is an average family going to shell that out for the ability to ride 3 FL rides, plus what will certainly be a continental-type bfast? It's basically gaining entry at 7:45 Am for off property guests who pay, or free at 8 AM if staying on property. Disney's logical way around this would be to only offer the upcharge on days not featuring Morning Extra Magic Hours at the MK, but that hasn't been announced as of yet.

If you're already interested in the Be Our Guest breakfast, which will cost you about $30 per person or so I'm guessing for pretty average food, then this is really only an extra $40 per person to get you on 7DMT and Peter Pan (and Pooh) without a wait and without using a FP on 2 rides that almost require them with how bad their stand-by waits are. So essentially you're paying for 2 extra FPs. Is it worth it? Not in my opinion, but if you desperately want to do MK in just 1 day (for whatever reason), then I guess it might be. Or if you're going during peak times I guess you might consider it worthwhile.

On a somewhat related note, the first $149 per person evening extended hours event at MK was this past Thursday. For those that don't know what it is, a limited number of people are allowed in the park for 3 additional hours after the regular closing time with soft drinks and ice cream novelties provided. You do not need to purchase admission to MK in addition to the event ticket; the event ticket by itself gets you into the park at 7 PM and lets you stay through 2 AM on nights where the park closes at 11. Reports are everything was a walk on and most rides you could re-ride as often as you like without exiting the ride vehicle. Pretty cool in theory, but I personally don't think the rides at MK are all that re-rideable. Splash Mountain is my favorite ride anywhere, but if I rode it 5 times in a row I'm pretty sure the "magic" would wear off rather quickly. It does make sense in some scenarios though.

RE: sales of 1 day only tickets, I've read that roughly 10% of ticket sales are 1 day tickets. I didn't see any details explaining that, so I don't know if that means that 10% of people in the parks on average are using a 1 day ticket, or if it means that for every 9 multi-day ticket packages that are sold, one 1-day ticket is sold, but either way that percentage is higher than I would have guessed. I'm guessing a lot of that 10% are people on property that are there for conventions and whatnot? I really don't know.

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10% of sales or 10% in the park would roughly be the same right?

I miss the days of no expiration date. My brother in law would order the 14 day or longer tickets with no expiration and just use them each year. Now they expire with in two weeks

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10% of sales or 10% in the park would roughly be the same right?

No, because multi-day tickets are valid for more than one day.

So say 10% of tickets sold are single day, and the other 90% are two day, to keep the math simple. Also to simplify, imagine only 100 tickets are sold every two days, with the single day patrons only attending one of those days. So every two days, there has been attendance of 190 (ten using one day tickets, and 90 others visiting twice each: 10+90*2).

10% of the park /attendance/ that results from those 100 tickets sold would be 190*0.1, or 19. Which is clearly different than 10% of tickets sold, 10.

Also in this simplified scenario, 10% of tickets sold being single day results in only around 5% of patrons in the park having purchased single day.

And that whole discussion assumes that the 10% figure was referring to absolute number of tickets or attendees, rather than dollar amounts. That would further muddy the calculations, because it weights single-day ticket buyers' influence on the results because they are paying more (often much more) per day.

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Only question on your math (and my math is off since dropping the major and moving into stats stuff so I could be crazy, tired, forgetful, or old)....

In your scenario we say 100 tickets are sold over 2 days. If 10% of attendance is single day admissions we don't have enough info to really see that number. When you did your 190 you assumed that 10% of ticket sales were single day which then of course changed your math. If every 2 days 100 tickets are sold, and every 2 days we have 100 patrons in the park then the % remain the same. Because for some the 2 days are ending and for some the 2 days will be beginning.

Basically in your scenario on day two the park admission didn't account for new people coming in. And yes maybe I have really over thought this so I'm sorry. This is how math is for me every day and the reason I abandoned becoming a math teacher. I really enjoy experimental math way too much

But yes you are right the 10% of admissions would be higher than ticket sales because

10% of admissions would be

.1y=X + (X - b ) where X is total in the park at any given day, b is the number of single day users

10% of tickets sales would be

.1x=y where X is ticket sales and y is the answer.

Soooobyeah your right and I made this harder in my brain than it should be for 11:30 on a Sunday.

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I said 10% of tickets /sold/ for my scenario not 10% of attendance, and that is where the 190 attendance comes from. That was the whole point. There aren't "new people coming in", there are 10% of 100 tickets that allow for one day attendance, and 90% that allow for two days attendance.

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Right but you said the attendance would be 190, which relies heavily on the fact that 10% of tickets being sold are single day. Where if the park has 100 people on day one you would have to assume it would hold 100 on day 2 and the math would work out to be 200 attendance, which would be 20 equalling the 10%

You are right that attendance percentage would be higher than ticket sale because of the return customers.

But if only 100 tickets are sold and we are basing the number of single day tickets on the percentage of total attendance.... In your scenario you can't solve for it (too many variables).

Let's even clean it up from my original post.

100 tickets are sold over two days. If all 100 come day one and only the remaining multi day peeps come day 2 we don't know that number. Because your scenario would like like this in a formula.

.1y= 100 + (100-X) where X is the amount of single ticket users and y is total attendance.

.1y=200-X

Y=2000-10x

Where if it's just ticket sales it really is

X.1=y

100*.1=10

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I was using a /highly/ simplified scenario to explain how/why 10% of tickets sold and 10% of daily attendance are very different when discussing single vs multi day tickets because someone didn't realize why they wouldn't be the same.

We could get into very complex math (and I'm certain Disney does) to crunch the actual realities of park sales and attendance, but it wouldn't be as clear a way to explain the concept. As I mentioned, just adding in the factor of pricing makes for a more complex situation :)

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It was me because my brain went side ways and now it's trying to find an answer to the scenario you set up :)

AKA my brain couldn't comprehend the much easier sentence from before and had to figure all of this out for no reason at all

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I was using a /highly/ simplified scenario to explain how/why 10% of tickets sold and 10% of daily attendance are very different when discussing single vs multi day tickets because someone didn't realize why they wouldn't be the same.

We could get into very complex math (and I'm certain Disney does) to crunch the actual realities of park sales and attendance, but it wouldn't be as clear a way to explain the concept. As I mentioned, just adding in the factor of pricing makes for a more complex situation :)

We used algebra today!!!

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Catching up a bit with some recent news, after being announced to debut on 4/22, Rivers of Light and all of the night time enhancements at AK have been pushed back indefinitely. No further announcements on the status of the show are expected until late May. This is a major bummer for me as I'm leaving for my trip in 2 weeks. I was really looking forward to ROL and the night time Safari.

Also staffing cuts have caused capacity at certain attractions to be greatly reduced, causing wait times to skyrocket. This past spring break peak time saw average waits reach as high as they've ever been. To me it seems like all their efforts to reduce wait times with the FP+ system is pretty pointless if they're not going to run at full capacity.

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^Rumors on Twitter are saying that the executives had a private showing of Rivers Of Light and were so unsatisfied with it that they are wanting major changes. Thus the delay. 

 

Obviously just rumors, but interesting either way.

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That certainly seems believable. ROL isn't even listed as "new summer entertainment" on Disney's website anymore (it still was as of last week). So knows at this point when it'll actually debut. They've already been working on it for 3 years now!

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Here are all of the rumors I have heard regarding the issues delaying RoL

 

The main lotus barge has a leak

The main lotus barge sank

The GPS navigation system is not as precise making the production unsafe/not choreographed correctly

The story of the show was a bit far fetched and hard to understand/visually impressive but written by a stoner

Executives are not happy with the show and want to launch an easy tie in to the Jungle Book while a major show rewrite takes place

Nothing more than some wiring issues, should be up and running in a few weeks.

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