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This is where modern times allow me to possibly get myself in trouble. I'll get so excited when Kong opens that I'll watch a bunch of videos and POVs online and forget that I might actually ride it someday, and I won't be as surprised. I need to remind myself not to do that!

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Yes.. same thing for Verbolten at Busch Gardens, I won't be surprised now.. actually, even for Wonder Mountain's Guardian at Canada's Wonderland.. I thought it was just a technical excuse to be considered a coaster, so I just kept watching the POV's trying to gauge if it was actually a good ride, but then one video actually showed fairly well what happens at the end.. oops.

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Have always meant to go to it and just never got around. Making a trip down to Universal this fall so might try to set up reservations there this time.

 

If your going in late September/ October make sure to attend Halloween Horror Nights. It's quite simply the best. 

 

I really want to go down there for that sometime. Was actually originally planning to this year, but a friend that lives down tehre is getting married Labor Day weekend so wrapping the vacation into the trip down there as well so stuck with teh start of the month and will miss it by a couple weeks.

 

I'm the same way thegajone. Have all these anticipated rides that i'mr eally curious to see what they are like and end up watching tons of pov videos once they opne so loose the elemnt of surprise when i finally get to ride them. Hard to resist when you know it will be a couple years before you might get a chance to ride them though.

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Yes.. same thing for Verbolten at Busch Gardens, I won't be surprised now.. actually, even for Wonder Mountain's Guardian at Canada's Wonderland.. I thought it was just a technical excuse to be considered a coaster, so I just kept watching the POV's trying to gauge if it was actually a good ride, but then one video actually showed fairly well what happens at the end.. oops.

I take very special care to make sure my friends know nothing about Verbolten until their first rides. I may allow them to see a photo or two of the outdoor portion to throw them off the scent. Their reactions after are priceless. A brilliant ride.

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Ok let's look at facts. Disney has built its park brand around the idea that you have to visit at least once in your life. The parks are crowded and they are raising ticket prices to maybe try and fix that problem.

I really doubt that the Disney parks have a negative perception to the general public. And probably the park enthusiast crowd they couldnt care less about.

Heck last year the Peter Pan ride and the Small World rides had long waits and people getting into line to experience them.

Walt Disney has timeless brands. US lacks that long term iconic brand and thus have to reimagine their park more often as well. Name the last 3 things King Kong was in and then compare that to the Disney Peter Pan Whinnie the Pooh or Mickey Mouse.

The fact that these characters keep showing up makes it that the rides don't have to change that drastically

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I understand all that. This entire discussion is based around the fact that you challenged my statement that Disney has taken longer to build new attractions and themed lands in their parks than US is recent years. You've since tried to disprove that with incomplete and inaccurate data.

Avatar land was announced 5 years ago and won't be ready until next year. New Fantasy Land was completed 5 years after being announced. Universal's major projects are completed in half that time from the time they are announced, yet still produce at a quality that is on par with Disney. Hence my original comment in this thread. And nothing in this post I quoted has relevancy to that discussion. You're going full on straw-man here. If you're trying to argue that Disney doesn't need to change as frequently or drastically, that's fine and I agree. But don't act like Disney takes the same amount of time to produce their new major overhauls in the parks when it simply isn't true.

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I was trying to bring it all full circle and end in amicably. And also point out that while Universal was upgrading or adding a ride here or there, Disney was upgrading other things. They may not bring people to the park but it makes things slightly more enjoyable.

But if you would like some facts about major park expansions. Here we go again.

I don't care when something is announced I'm talking about from breaking ground etc.

Avatar broke ground on Jan 10, 2014 and is expected to finish in 2017. 3-3.5 years

Harry Potter broke ground mid 2007, finished June 18, 2010, 3 years.

The second Harry Potter broke ground early to mid 2011, and finished July 8, 2014. 3 years

Disney Fantasy Land: started 2011 and finished Nov 2014, 3.5 years. While not officially a rebuild and areas were opened up in stages.

Who cares when it's announced. Just because it gets announced or confirmed doesn't mean a thing.

I even agreed with you that it's all perception. That it seems to take longer because Disney announced things earlier. But that's hardly Disneys fault if anything they are giving people time to get "last rides".

Kong Skull Island a smaller not as involved redo as compared to HP but from what I have seen online ground breaking started around Jan/Feb 2014 and will open mid 2016 so almost 2.5 years.

Star Wars is broke ground this year and is expected to open 2018, 3 years.

I'm not trying to compare single rides because the Redo of Hulk or Spidey or Transformers is no different than Disney doing the Snow White or KI building Banshee.

From broken ground to completion the time lines are almost identical. Disney as a company has historically announced projects early in the design. From the parks to movies to anything. Disney almost enjoys taking the audience on a ride through development. It's almost like they are making money on it.

Universal recently has not done it the same way. They make the announcement and then break ground.

If I were to take a guess I would think the planning is about the same. So when Disney announces something and then breaks ground 2 years later they probably when through the same process as US.

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Jaws was still open in 2012. You'll have to explain again how they broke ground on HP2 in mid 2011....

 

Diagon is the most immersive land in any theme park in this country. Every inch of it is themed in detail with AA's, fire and water effects. It includes a ride with tech that didn't exist before the ride. Huge themed sets with a lot of rockwork and AA's of better quality than most anything Disney has ever done. It was ground breaking and made Disney go back and change their plans on Avatar and set the bar for what Star Wars much become. They did this in a little over two years.

 

Avatar seems to be detailed, but both rides seem to be using existing tech. and is going to take 3 1/2 years.

 

Fantasy land was, again, nothing new tech wise.  A spinner, a coaster, and an omnimover. All things they have done before. 3 1/2 years.

 

Star Wars will not open in 2018. Even with how bad DHS is right now, they are still not going to be able to flip all of the existing buildings and infrastructure into a highly immersive land in less than 3 years. I don't even think Comcast could pull that off. 

 

 

Comcast is faster at getting things done. Period. I like Disney. I'm not knocking the place. But to say they are working on a comparable time schedule for construction as Uni is just ignoring the facts. 

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Ok let's look at facts. Disney has built its park brand around the idea that you have to visit at least once in your life. The parks are crowded and they are raising ticket prices to maybe try and fix that problem.

I really doubt that the Disney parks have a negative perception to the general public. And probably the park enthusiast crowd they couldnt care less about.

Heck last year the Peter Pan ride and the Small World rides had long waits and people getting into line to experience them.

Walt Disney has timeless brands. US lacks that long term iconic brand and thus have to reimagine their park more often as well. Name the last 3 things King Kong was in and then compare that to the Disney Peter Pan Whinnie the Pooh or Mickey Mouse.

The fact that these characters keep showing up makes it that the rides don't have to change that drastically

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I understand all that. This entire discussion is based around the fact that you challenged my statement that Disney has taken longer to build new attractions and themed lands in their parks than US is recent years. You've since tried to disprove that with incomplete and inaccurate data.

Avatar land was announced 5 years ago and won't be ready until next year. New Fantasy Land was completed 5 years after being announced. Universal's major projects are completed in half that time from the time they are announced, yet still produce at a quality that is on par with Disney. Hence my original comment in this thread. And nothing in this post I quoted has relevancy to that discussion. You're going full on straw-man here. If you're trying to argue that Disney doesn't need to change as frequently or drastically, that's fine and I agree. But don't act like Disney takes the same amount of time to produce their new major overhauls in the parks when it simply isn't true.

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I was trying to bring it all full circle and end in amicably. And also point out that while Universal was upgrading or adding a ride here or there, Disney was upgrading other things. They may not bring people to the park but it makes things slightly more enjoyable.

But if you would like some facts about major park expansions. Here we go again.

I don't care when something is announced I'm talking about from breaking ground etc.

Avatar broke ground on Jan 10, 2014 and is expected to finish in 2017. 3-3.5 years

Harry Potter broke ground mid 2007, finished June 18, 2010, 3 years.

The second Harry Potter broke ground early to mid 2011, and finished July 8, 2014. 3 years

Disney Fantasy Land: started 2011 and finished Nov 2014, 3.5 years. While not officially a rebuild and areas were opened up in stages.

Who cares when it's announced. Just because it gets announced or confirmed doesn't mean a thing.

I even agreed with you that it's all perception. That it seems to take longer because Disney announced things earlier. But that's hardly Disneys fault if anything they are giving people time to get "last rides".

Kong Skull Island a smaller not as involved redo as compared to HP but from what I have seen online ground breaking started around Jan/Feb 2014 and will open mid 2016 so almost 2.5 years.

Star Wars is broke ground this year and is expected to open 2018, 3 years.

I'm not trying to compare single rides because the Redo of Hulk or Spidey or Transformers is no different than Disney doing the Snow White or KI building Banshee.

From broken ground to completion the time lines are almost identical. Disney as a company has historically announced projects early in the design. From the parks to movies to anything. Disney almost enjoys taking the audience on a ride through development. It's almost like they are making money on it.

Universal recently has not done it the same way. They make the announcement and then break ground.

If I were to take a guess I would think the planning is about the same. So when Disney announces something and then breaks ground 2 years later they probably when through the same process as US.

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Jaws was still open in 2012. You'll have to explain again how they broke ground on HP2 in mid 2011....

Diagon is the most immersive land in any theme park in this country. Every inch of it is themed in detail with AA's, fire and water effects. It includes a ride with tech that didn't exist before the ride. Huge themed sets with a lot of rockwork and AA's of better quality than most anything Disney has ever done. It was ground breaking and made Disney go back and change their plans on Avatar and set the bar for what Star Wars much become. They did this in a little over two years.

Avatar seems to be detailed, but both rides seem to be using existing tech. and is going to take 3 1/2 years.

Fantasy land was, again, nothing new tech wise. A spinner, a coaster, and an omnimover. All things they have done before. 3 1/2 years.

Star Wars will not open in 2018. Even with how bad DHS is right now, they are still not going to be able to flip all of the existing buildings and infrastructure into a highly immersive land in less than 3 years. I don't even think Comcast could pull that off.

Comcast is faster at getting things done. Period. I like Disney. I'm not knocking the place. But to say they are working on a comparable time schedule for construction as Uni is just ignoring the facts.

Survey markers were in the ground in January 2011 as an FYI, official announcement in Dec 11 and Jaws Closes in 12. Other construction can happen that didn't involve the Amity/Jaws area building up to the announcement. I'm not sure how I'm ignoring facts. Please help me out here.

As for Avatar and SW... Avatar started construction 14 and state it will be open in 17. I haven't read anything about it being behind schedule so how do you figure it will be open late if all they are doing is nothing new. As for SW I was wrong I gave the time line for the DisneyLand as I was reading the updates there. Toy Story stuff is scheduled for 18 at DHS.

Again I'll reiterate my original point, to state that one company is slower than the other when it comes to building something is border line crazy. There are timelines that most people agree upon that it takes to do certain things such as build a building or finish a coaster. One company is not quicker than the other at constructing than the other. From announcement to completion, yes. Avatar was announced much much earlier in the process than say Diagonal Alley expansion. Hence the expansion was finished and opened before (or right at the same time) Construction began on Avatar.

Uni from announcement to completion has been between 3.5-4 years while Disney is 5-6 years.

Uni from construction starting on major areas they appear to be around 3.5 year on average and the only thing we have seen recently from Disney is Fantasy Land at 3.5. If Avatar Toy Story and SW takes longer then that gives us data points.

I'm not attacking Uni in any way. But if we throw out things as fact we need to have some sort of data to back it up. I tried my best to show data (survey markers in 2011, openings dates etc)... But to compare we need to compare apples to apples. Announcement dates to construction dates is not a comparison. Announcement to announcement or construction time line to construction time line is comparable. Just because something is brought up is not meant to be attacked b

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Ok let's look at facts. Disney has built its park brand around the idea that you have to visit at least once in your life. The parks are crowded and they are raising ticket prices to maybe try and fix that problem.

I really doubt that the Disney parks have a negative perception to the general public. And probably the park enthusiast crowd they couldnt care less about.

Heck last year the Peter Pan ride and the Small World rides had long waits and people getting into line to experience them.

Walt Disney has timeless brands. US lacks that long term iconic brand and thus have to reimagine their park more often as well. Name the last 3 things King Kong was in and then compare that to the Disney Peter Pan Whinnie the Pooh or Mickey Mouse.

The fact that these characters keep showing up makes it that the rides don't have to change that drastically

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I understand all that. This entire discussion is based around the fact that you challenged my statement that Disney has taken longer to build new attractions and themed lands in their parks than US is recent years. You've since tried to disprove that with incomplete and inaccurate data.

Avatar land was announced 5 years ago and won't be ready until next year. New Fantasy Land was completed 5 years after being announced. Universal's major projects are completed in half that time from the time they are announced, yet still produce at a quality that is on par with Disney. Hence my original comment in this thread. And nothing in this post I quoted has relevancy to that discussion. You're going full on straw-man here. If you're trying to argue that Disney doesn't need to change as frequently or drastically, that's fine and I agree. But don't act like Disney takes the same amount of time to produce their new major overhauls in the parks when it simply isn't true.

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I was trying to bring it all full circle and end in amicably. And also point out that while Universal was upgrading or adding a ride here or there, Disney was upgrading other things. They may not bring people to the park but it makes things slightly more enjoyable.

But if you would like some facts about major park expansions. Here we go again.

I don't care when something is announced I'm talking about from breaking ground etc.

Avatar broke ground on Jan 10, 2014 and is expected to finish in 2017. 3-3.5 years

Harry Potter broke ground mid 2007, finished June 18, 2010, 3 years.

The second Harry Potter broke ground early to mid 2011, and finished July 8, 2014. 3 years

Disney Fantasy Land: started 2011 and finished Nov 2014, 3.5 years. While not officially a rebuild and areas were opened up in stages.

Who cares when it's announced. Just because it gets announced or confirmed doesn't mean a thing.

I even agreed with you that it's all perception. That it seems to take longer because Disney announced things earlier. But that's hardly Disneys fault if anything they are giving people time to get "last rides".

Kong Skull Island a smaller not as involved redo as compared to HP but from what I have seen online ground breaking started around Jan/Feb 2014 and will open mid 2016 so almost 2.5 years.

Star Wars is broke ground this year and is expected to open 2018, 3 years.

I'm not trying to compare single rides because the Redo of Hulk or Spidey or Transformers is no different than Disney doing the Snow White or KI building Banshee.

From broken ground to completion the time lines are almost identical. Disney as a company has historically announced projects early in the design. From the parks to movies to anything. Disney almost enjoys taking the audience on a ride through development. It's almost like they are making money on it.

Universal recently has not done it the same way. They make the announcement and then break ground.

If I were to take a guess I would think the planning is about the same. So when Disney announces something and then breaks ground 2 years later they probably when through the same process as US.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jaws was still open in 2012. You'll have to explain again how they broke ground on HP2 in mid 2011....

Diagon is the most immersive land in any theme park in this country. Every inch of it is themed in detail with AA's, fire and water effects. It includes a ride with tech that didn't exist before the ride. Huge themed sets with a lot of rockwork and AA's of better quality than most anything Disney has ever done. It was ground breaking and made Disney go back and change their plans on Avatar and set the bar for what Star Wars much become. They did this in a little over two years.

Avatar seems to be detailed, but both rides seem to be using existing tech. and is going to take 3 1/2 years.

Fantasy land was, again, nothing new tech wise. A spinner, a coaster, and an omnimover. All things they have done before. 3 1/2 years.

Star Wars will not open in 2018. Even with how bad DHS is right now, they are still not going to be able to flip all of the existing buildings and infrastructure into a highly immersive land in less than 3 years. I don't even think Comcast could pull that off.

Comcast is faster at getting things done. Period. I like Disney. I'm not knocking the place. But to say they are working on a comparable time schedule for construction as Uni is just ignoring the facts.

Survey markers were in the ground in January 2011 as an FYI, official announcement in Dec 11 and Jaws Closes in 12. Other construction can happen that didn't involve the Amity/Jaws area building up to the announcement. I'm not sure how I'm ignoring facts. Please help me out here.

As for Avatar and SW... Avatar started construction 14 and state it will be open in 17. I haven't read anything about it being behind schedule so how do you figure it will be open late if all they are doing is nothing new. As for SW I was wrong I gave the time line for the DisneyLand as I was reading the updates there. Toy Story stuff is scheduled for 18 at DHS.

Again I'll reiterate my original point, to state that one company is slower than the other when it comes to building something is border line crazy. There are timelines that most people agree upon that it takes to do certain things such as build a building or finish a coaster. One company is not quicker than the other at constructing than the other. From announcement to completion, yes. Avatar was announced much much earlier in the process than say Diagonal Alley expansion. Hence the expansion was finished and opened before (or right at the same time) Construction began on Avatar.

Uni from announcement to completion has been between 3.5-4 years while Disney is 5-6 years.

Uni from construction starting on major areas they appear to be around 3.5 year on average and the only thing we have seen recently from Disney is Fantasy Land at 3.5. If Avatar Toy Story and SW takes longer then that gives us data points.

I'm not attacking Uni in any way. But if we throw out things as fact we need to have some sort of data to back it up. I tried my best to show data (survey markers in 2011, openings dates etc)... But to compare we need to compare apples to apples. Announcement dates to construction dates is not a comparison. Announcement to announcement or construction time line to construction time line is comparable. Just because something is brought up is not meant to be attacked b

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I didn't say anything about announcements. I'm talking about construction. Survey markers are not construction. Survey markers hit the ground long before any park announces anything. When do you think the first Survey marker went into the ground on Avatar? It would have been when they still had the Lion King in the old building and Camp Minnie Mickey was full of guests. So if you want to stretch out Diagon because of Survey markers, you need to add years to Avatar as well.

 

The facts you are ignoring, is that there was no construction on Diagon, The train, or the hogsmede end of the train station prior to 2012. None. There is a Google earth image dated January 3rd 2012 and there are still boats in the water and no grass disturbed anywhere. It's a fact. To ignore it is delusional.

 

I didn't say Avatar would be late. I used the 3 1/2 year timeline that you used. 

 

You must not understand how big projects work. It comes down to how much money you spend and what timeline you tell the contractors when you put out bids. If you pay one guy to paint a house it'll take him longer than is you pay 5 guys. Or if you tell a painter that you'll give him a week to paint the house, he's probably going to take a week. If you tell him he has 2 days, he'll take 2 days. It is also well known that Disney spreads their projects over multiple years for tax and other financial purposes. Comcast is throwing money at these projects to get them done quickly. Transformers may have been a supposedly easy ride to build, but they had guys on it 24 hours a day to get it done quicker. It's not nearly as simple as we want an E-ticket, it costs X dollars and 3.25 years to build. 

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I suck at editing photos. But you get the point.

 

Mark%20V%20Bob%202_zps8e74634q.jpg

 

If you don't know who these gentlemen are, on the right is Mark Woodbury President of Universal Creative. On the left is Bob Weis President of Walt Disney Imagineering. 

 

Also if anyone was curious... regarding Hulk, more than just the track is getting an update :)

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See it's not called ignoring facts if you don't have one that another person has. In a conversation you try to help and give facts or ask questions. You don't accuse peeps of ignoring facts or making arguments. I kept trying to offer up my info with dates and no one till you (or I missed it) stated any contradictory dates. Just "Disney takes longer". All you had to do was say something. No need to go all Snicker Bar commercial. Plus to be truthful, my original comment was directed towards the semantic conversation one person stated about building and announcing but thanks for joining in.

I was looking through some of the Orlando Sentinel Articles combined with some of the Universal Blogs and they stated that surgery Markers were put down in January of 11 and some behind Amity earth moving had begun in July/August (don't remember I was looking on my phone last night) that's why I was going off of that data. You say Google Earth shows it and good sweet, I'm not looking it because it the end it doesn't matter all that much haha.

Look if thats true then yes Diagonal was completed very quickly. And then yes that product got turned around very quickly and surprisingly well done for such a short turn.

Also to be truthful comparing projects is sort of silly in of itself. As someone on here stated HP at IOA was a massive undertaking and that can really only be compared to the other lands in that park. The Fantasy Land at WDW is great but not the total immersion that IOA offers in any land especially for HP. As for the connection at Universal with HP I haven't seen it but from all accounts once you disappear behind the wall, it's a 1 in the world experience.

Maybe SW and TS will be like this, or maybe it won't.

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This is where modern times allow me to possibly get myself in trouble. I'll get so excited when Kong opens that I'll watch a bunch of videos and POVs online and forget that I might actually ride it someday, and I won't be as surprised. I need to remind myself not to do that!

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This is exactly why I refuse to watch any Fury POV's on Fun TV or Youtube (and also why I won't be riding Firehawk until my Carowinds trip this year for Stealth, er... Nighthawk)...

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Onboard audio?

 

You know someone suggested that to me but when it comes to the actual ride I have no idea what is going on. I just know that the que is getting an update. I don't know what it entails all I know is that it will be different. When it comes to Universal I know a lot about Kong, a little bit about everything else and a trail of crumbs about some future projects.

 

Also let's get one thing straight right now. UC operates on a faster time frame than WDI. Period. Diagon Alley went from Blue Sky in June of 2010 to opening in July of 2014. Avatar went from Blue sky sometime in early to mid 2011 and will open in 2017. UC is just a lot smaller than WDI so things get finished quicker. That's not to say that WDI hasn't had some amazing success in that time. Cars Land at DCA is simply wonderful and I truly believe that when Star Wars land is finished in 2019 or later it will be a worthy competitor for Diagon Alley. Universal will just have opened 5+ new attractions, a new hotel, a hotel expansion, update resort wide infrastructure, a new water park, new restaurants and will be well into planning park 4 by that time. 

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Have you heard anything about the 3rd park? or about updates to the Jurassic Park area?

 

If your referring to Volcano Bay I know a very little bit. If your referring to theme park 3 I know nothing. Only that they didn't buy those 500 acres on the other side of I-4 for their health. As for Jurassic Park I've herd so many ideas thrown around for years. In fact Kong was born from the Jurassic Park jeep adventure ride originally planned for that space. But I'd be willing to bet with the success of Jurassic World that their will be something added in the future. I've herd a few rumblings about a glass sphere ride... but nothing concrete so don't hold your breath. However something to note about UC, great ideas never die... They are just improved and reborn! For example a proposed ride for Islands of Adventure was a ride based off of Van Helsing/ Dracula. You would enter his castle and board very special ride vehicles attached to robotic arms. I bet you can guess what that ride became.    

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That would make sense if true. The ride seems a little dated at this point. When it opened I had never been on an invert before so I thought it was the coolest thing ever. But even then lines were short, so I was able to ride it about 6-7 times in an hour, maybe more. Now that I've been on some amazing inverts plus the fact that they don't duel any more, that coaster seems about as ordinary as it gets. And since Hogsmeade opened, that is pretty prime real estate these days.

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I don't understand why they stopped dueling the coasters. That type of accident could happen to anybody at any park, on just about any ride. As far as Refurbishment goes, the ride was refurbished in 2009-2010 to fit the themeing of the wizarding world of Harry Potter. If anything the coaster's could be demolished and both be rebuilt with new layouts. Otherwise i don't see this coaster being removed. It is one of the few things that make Universal stand out to its competition in Disney. That is, having much more thrilling coasters.

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Well you have to remember that at Universal the big crazy coaster isn't king. The E-Ticket is. Potter changed everything for Universal and because of this UC has changed their agenda. They are now much more interested in highly immersive lands and E-Tickets than big thrilling coasters. The only reason they are refurbishing Hulk is because it's an iconic part of Islands of Adventure and is still very popular. Dragons has been loosing popularity and more importantly doesn't fit the bill for an ultra immersive world like Hogsmeade. It's taking up prime real estate, real estate that could be used for another E-Ticket. I don't have concrete evidence that this is happening and plans can always change. But I do feel confident in saying that its future is questionable. If I hear otherwise I'll definitely let you know. 

 

Edit: So I just heard the craziest rumor about Hulk ever. I don't believe it at all but someone suggested that Hulk's new trains will have B&M hyper restraints. Like I said I don't believe it at all... but if it did... new best roller coaster ever. 

Edited by MrBestDayEver

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