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Decoding Episode II: Rivertown 2017 and the Falling Trees

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Okay, since everyone else is, I'll through my thoughts on a layout out there...  I don't have exact details, just the screenshots others posted to work from.  

 

1qseih.jpg

 

This hugs and works with the land topography, goes under the train bridge, and interacts with Diamondback pretty well.  Also note, not a lot of tree clearing left to complete based upon others pictures of the onsite work.  Thoughts?

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So can someone please explain to me why the plans/coordinates/whatever are such a secret?  It's nauseatingly annoying.  This is a fan site of Kings Island, but at times it comes across as Shill Central.

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So can someone please explain to me why the plans/coordinates/whatever are such a secret?  It's nauseatingly annoying.  This is a fan site of Kings Island, but at times it comes across as Shill Central.

Well said.

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I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers at all.  I'm generally a pacifist.  But then I see people post their interpretations of the plans, and get told "it's wrong" by others with nothing to back it up, and then want to remain secretive about all of it.  I get that some of you paid the extraordinary amount of $15 for the plans, but that's no reason to get all haughty about it.  

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To some people, knowledge is power and power (or influence) over others is compensation for some sort of inadequacy. Just saying .... And all this over a set of coaster plans that are available to anyone with the time and $15? Pretty petty IMO

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<snip> ...then I see people post their interpretations of the plans, and get told "it's wrong" by others with nothing to back it up, and then want to remain secretive about all of it. </snip>

 

I guessing those 'who know' aren't going to come out and say "it's right".  Hmm...we could use this to our advantage.  Post a bunch of different plans, see how many get told "it's wrong" and use to figure out what a correct placement may be. 

 

Just thinking outside the box.  

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<snip> ...then I see people post their interpretations of the plans, and get told "it's wrong" by others with nothing to back it up, and then want to remain secretive about all of it. </snip>

 

I guessing those 'who know' aren't going to come out and say "it's right".  Hmm...we could use this to our advantage.  Post a bunch of different plans, see how many get told "it's wrong" and use to figure out what a correct placement may be. 

 

Just thinking outside the box.

Or "those" people don't post discussing it if they won't say anything.

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I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers at all. I'm generally a pacifist. But then I see people post their interpretations of the plans, and get told "it's wrong" by others with nothing to back it up, and then want to remain secretive about all of it. I get that some of you paid the extraordinary amount of $15 for the plans, but that's no reason to get all haughty about it.

Thankful some one said this and it wasn't me

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Okay, since everyone else is, I'll through my thoughts on a layout out there...  I don't have exact details, just the screenshots others posted to work from.  

 

 

This hugs and works with the land topography, goes under the train bridge, and interacts with Diamondback pretty well.  Also note, not a lot of tree clearing left to complete based upon others pictures of the onsite work.  Thoughts?

If the scale of the station is accurate, this seems a little on the small side.

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Doesn't have to do with power or inadequacies. It's called time is money. My time is valuable. I don't give it away free. I've tried to provide clues for people, but everyone wants to give up and have it handed to them. It's called the real world. Things are not served on a silver platter. If you want something bad enough you will work for it. Since everyone wants to be negative Nancy today, I shall cease to provide clues. Good luck, and I guess you will find out at the announcement the true details.

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I find it hard to believe that a traditional small wooden coaster would sell lots of season passes.

KIC members cannot decide what is: big, small, adult. kiddie, traditional, etc.  I highly doubt the average park goer will even care- and that is due to marketing, which Don (and CF as of recently) does very well.  Due to numerous discussions waiting in line- most guests have no idea what GCI, RMC, B & M, Intamin are until the type of track is explained.  Then you can see the light come on because they are connecting the dots.

 

But getting back to season passes- I don't believe a "traditional" coaster will have a negative/ neutral impact as you believe.  Ravine Flyer II at Waldameer in Erie could be labeled as small due to being 2900' with a drop of 115' and max speed of 57mph, but what it does not have in size, it more than makes up for in forces & general fun.

 

I personally believe that customer experience influences season pass sales more than anything.  While there will an increase in pass sales for the opening year for any coaster, if park fans get pi$$ed due to long concession lines or crappy customer service you not only lost a season pass sale, but negative press spreads like wildfire- the sale will be a one year thing.

So is it fair to say that season pass sales will decrease because of:

A) Not a huge coaster to spike sales.

B) Customer service has been lagging this season due to long lines for concessions.

 

No, any coaster will spike sales it's first year due to excellent CF marketing.

 

Yes, negative customer service will decrease season pass sales.

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Doesn't have to do with power or inadequacies. It's called time is money. My time is valuable. I don't give it away free. I've tried to provide clues for people, but everyone wants to give up and have it handed to them. It's called the real world. Things are not served on a silver platter. If you want something bad enough you will work for it. Since everyone wants to be negative Nancy today, I shall cease to provide clues. Good luck, and I guess you will find out at the announcement the true details.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Doesn't have to do with power or inadequacies. It's called time is money. My time is valuable. I don't give it away free. I've tried to provide clues for people, but everyone wants to give up and have it handed to them. It's called the real world. Things are not served on a silver platter. If you want something bad enough you will work for it. Since everyone wants to be negative Nancy today, I shall cease to provide clues. Good luck, and I guess you will find out at the announcement the true details.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

The only clues you gave were incredibly cryptic in nature.  If discussing a $15 plan is going to put you out as much as you say it is, then good luck to you.  Good day. 

 

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I'm seriously beginning to think I might forfeit the money I'd make in 1/2 a day to make the drive to get the plans just to share them with anybody who wants so the bickering will cease and we can get back to debating if a Rocky reference is to mountains or the fictional boxer and the city he's from.

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Gosh I still can't quote correctly. Anyway that sounds like a lot of crap to me.^ I mean I get the argument but I can't believe u won't be a team player over $15. Whatever man

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If you never actually make a substantive prediction in public...it's pretty hard to end up being called wrong.

 

I mean, through my massive statistical prognostication powers and intensive model-fitting, I already know who is going to win the presidential election and what their exact vote totals are gonna be, but I ain't tellin' until after the election. :rolleyes:

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Doesn't have to do with power or inadequacies. It's called time is money. My time is valuable. I don't give it away free. I've tried to provide clues for people, but everyone wants to give up and have it handed to them. It's called the real world. Things are not served on a silver platter. If you want something bad enough you will work for it. Since everyone wants to be negative Nancy today, I shall cease to provide clues. Good luck, and I guess you will find out at the announcement the true details.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey, if that's what makes you feel important.

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Here's a hint plot N1 and N3

Of course depends on what coordinates you want to use in the plans. There is another page that have coordinates that plot right behind Timberwolf. Not sure what those are for, and 1 plot out in the field by Banshee.

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I will take you up on that.  Except I will do it in a completely different method.  We know these coordinates are feet from a specific point, which I do not know what that point is, based on another page of the blueprints these coordinates are Kings Island Park Coordinates so you need the origin to plot them correctly.  

 

Except two points form a line and to get that we do not need to know the origin.

 

N1 is N 2932.64 and E 4292.23

N3 is N 2900.68 and E 4305.20

That means point N3 is 31.96 feet south and 12.97 feet east of N1.  Using basic geometry that means the inverse tangent of 12.97/31.96 will give me the angle between the hypotenuse and the adjacent side which in this case in the north component.  That works out to an angle of 22.088 degrees.  

 

Which means that edge is pointing south east at an angle of 157.9 degrees.  Which makes sense based on the diagram and suggests that the north arrow is accurate.

 

Since it does appear these are Kings Island Park coordinates and not based on any international standard what is the location of the origin?  My guess is that if you take the Westernmost edge of the park and southern tip of the park land you would get the coordinate.

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Here's a hint plot N1 and N3

Of course depends on what coordinates you want to use in the plans. There is another page that have coordinates that plot right behind Timberwolf. Not sure what those are for, and 1 plot out in the field by Banshee.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I will take you up on that.  Except I will do it in a completely different method.  We know these coordinates are feet from a specific point, which I do not know what that point is, based on another page of the blueprints these coordinates are Kings Island Park Coordinates so you need the origin to plot them correctly.  

 

Except two points form a line and to get that we do not need to know the origin.

 

N1 is N 2932.64 and E 4292.23

N3 is N 2900.68 and E 4305.20

That means point N3 is 31.96 feet south and 12.97 feet east of N1.  Using basic geometry that means the inverse tangent of 12.97/31.96 will give me the angle between the hypotenuse and the adjacent side which in this case in the north component.  That works out to an angle of 22.088 degrees.  

 

Which means that edge is pointing south east at an angle of 157.9 degrees.  Which makes sense based on the diagram and suggests that the north arrow is accurate.

 

Since it does appear this are Kings Island Park coordinates and not based on any international standard what is the location of the origin?  My guess is that if you take the Westernmost edge of the park and southern tip of the park land you would get the coordinate.

 

 

Math FTW. It may be as simple as a marker bolt, something that is really only defined "in-park". I would assume this origin-marker may be the same as past projects to increase accuracy, etc.

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Math FTW. It may be as simple as a marker bolt, something that is really only defined "in-park". I would assume this origin-marker may be the same as past projects to increase accuracy, etc.

 

 

Wouldn't that reference need to be public, as well? I mean, plans filed with a governmental body are usually in order to get permits to build. That body would need to be able to interpret the plans (including all of the references) in order to issue the permit.

 

I reserve the right to be 1000000000% wrong on that.

 

edit: sorry for the crappy edit job on the quote, was just trying to save space

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Math FTW. It may be as simple as a marker bolt, something that is really only defined "in-park". I would assume this origin-marker may be the same as past projects to increase accuracy, etc.

 

 

I went and looked at google maps.  From what I can tell the origin would be south west of the park and likely to be in the middle of the highway.  If I had coordinate locations from previous projects it would be pretty easy to figure out.  But I went and looked at the blueprints to Banshee and the pages which are available online that I could find do not show coordinates they just label the points.  The information is likely on another page which I cannot find.

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Using the UTM coordinates from the approximate location for the "area of work" on the diagram, puts an origin point near Sharon Nursery and I-71.

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Math FTW. It may be as simple as a marker bolt, something that is really only defined "in-park". I would assume this origin-marker may be the same as past projects to increase accuracy, etc.

 

 

Wouldn't that reference need to be public, as well? I mean, plans filed with a governmental body are usually in order to get permits to build. That body would need to be able to interpret the plans (including all of the references) in order to issue the permit.

 

I reserve the right to be 1000000000% wrong on that.

 

edit: sorry for the crappy edit job on the quote, was just trying to save space

 

 

It's possible, but may be on one of the "hidden" pages or omitted because it's not necessary for the permit.

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Wouldn't that reference need to be public, as well? I mean, plans filed with a governmental body are usually in order to get permits to build. That body would need to be able to interpret the plans (including all of the references) in order to issue the permit.

 

I reserve the right to be 1000000000% wrong on that.

 

edit: sorry for the crappy edit job on the quote, was just trying to save space

 

 

Public does not have to mean easy to find.  You need to know who to talk with and what to ask.  There is likely a park plan which would have this information on it with the planning office.  It might even matter who you speak with.  If it is someone who wants to help you then they might be able to lead you to the information you want, if it is someone who is getting annoyed with people asking about the park and plans then they might make it more difficult.

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For everyone who wants to see the plans but can't take time off, you should offer to pay someone to go for you.

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I find it rather awkward to ask someone who is a stranger to me outside of this forum to do something on my behalf. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling this way.

If someone here were to offer to go if someone were to provide the funds, I'm sure they'd have people take them up on it. They may, potentially, run into an ethical decision on whether it's ok to profit from doing so (they'd potentially get multiple requests, but only have to visit the office once).

I feel it necessary to state that I am not soliciting for offers to go to city hall on my behalf. I'd like a copy of the plans, sure. I don't know how to read them, really, but think it could potentially be a cool thing to frame and hang on my office wall. However, I am a few weeks away from getting married and live 90+ minutes away from the KI area. There's no way I'd even be able to meet someone to get them for a month or more.

Congrats on the upcoming nuptials. I'm thinking I want a copy of blue prints for my office to frame as well. I just think they look cool. If I go next week I'll send you a pm

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