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The Beast needs to be updated

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I'm still shocked that people become so defensive over some very small, relatively nominal changes, like removing trims, making the tunnel into another dip, GCI retrack, and reprofiling turns to make them smoother. Honestly, it will not change the core of what makes The Beast a good ride, but it builds upon the good to make amazing. Imagine how it would be with no trims. Just imagine how much better those night rides would be flying through the trees on what would be one of the fastest, if not the fastest wooden coaster on earth. Just take a minute and picture it. Imagine if it had actual airtime after that turn following the drop. The core ride is still there. There are next to no changes. The only ones that would be changes to the structure to itself would be adding an extra dip or airtime hill, and reprofiling a few turns to make them smoother. Just think, you have what was once the unquestioned best wooden coaster in the world, then you have some very small changes that make the ride that much faster, that much more interesting, that much better. Other than nostalgia, there is no reason to not wish for this.

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Re profiling track and adding dips to tunnels aren't small or nominal changes and will change the soul of the ride. There are no dips because there aren't supposed to be quick dips and more banking reduces the lateral forces. Removing trims will require sacrifices in maintenance and/or the ride experience. The ride could easily become too extreme without them and/or cause track/structural damage to the ride making it rough.

You need to understand that the ride doesn't have certain elements because it's not supposed to. Diamondback doesn't have loops not because it can't but because it would change the ride experience.

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Re profiling track and adding dips to tunnels aren't small or nominal changes and will change the soul of the ride. There are no dips because there aren't supposed to be quick dips and more banking reduces the lateral forces. Removing trims will require sacrifices in maintenance and/or the ride experience. The ride could easily become too extreme without them and/or cause track/structural damage to the ride making it rough.

You need to understand that the ride doesn't have certain elements because it's not supposed to. Diamondback doesn't have loops not because it can't but because it would change the ride experience.

 

I think a lot of people do understand that.

 

However, The Beast DOES have some of the elements mentioned, just not in some areas. There are some dips before the turn to the covered section, which is ~200ft long (according to measure distance in google earth) of straight/flat track of, basically, nothing. The roof takes away (for me, anyway) the feeling of being out in the terrain. It feels more like I'm inside. That section actually detracts from the ride for me. It takes me out of the moment riding a roller coaster puts me in and leaves me just waiting to get to the next good bit. Frankly, that bit of "ride experience" is one I'd love to see changed.

 

What I don't understand is how taking that <3% of the total ride and making it slightly different would change the soul of the entire ride.  (Before someone tries, I'm not saying you could change any arbitrary 3% of the ride, or any ride,  and not change the 'soul' of the ride).

 

As I've said before, I don't think it needs updated. I love the ride. It's probably my favorite coaster ever (at least wooden). However, I'm in no way convinced it's perfect - nothing is perfect. Everything can be improved.

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I can do without the brake going into the drop after you turn left out of the initial drop. Really no difference between the shed and Diamondback's brake area.

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The terrain dips there which is why the coaster does. It doesn't have any quick dips though, just a hill. And he talked about changing a lot more than the now too long brake run due to the magnetic brakes.

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Let me state I'm against this 100%

But

Racer had structure work done and the end of the ride was changed about 15 years ago

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Ok so why can't they speed up the second one which in turn should enable them to speed up the first one.

The brake shed is no longer able to completely stop a train. So the only places a train can be held are both lift and the station. Remember The Beast was designed to run with 4 trains.

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Does it still run four trains or is it three trains now

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Ok so why can't they speed up the second one which in turn should enable them to speed up the first one.

The brake shed is no longer able to completely stop a train. So the only places a train can be held are both lift and the station. Remember The Beast was designed to run with 4 trains.

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Does it still run four trains or is it three trains now

 

It runs three now.

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I believe when they removed the old brakes they removed the kicker tires and essentially ended that as a mcbr...

Original blocks if I'm correct

Station to lift hill

First drop to brake run

Brake run to second lift

Second lift to station.

Right?

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I would assume that there were, as there are now, multiple blocks on the final brake run to allow stacking, so that a delay in the station does not result in a train setting up on the second lift.

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Let me state I'm against this 100%

But

Racer had structure work done and the end of the ride was changed about 15 years ago

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Wasn't that done partially because of Flight of Fear?

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I would assume that there were, as there are now, multiple blocks on the final brake run to allow stacking, so that a delay in the station does not result in a train setting up on the second lift.

True because they could (I thought) park all four under the final brake run. However, there was a time when occasionally you would stop for a moment on the second lift hill.

Let me state I'm against this 100%

But

Racer had structure work done and the end of the ride was changed about 15 years ago

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wasn't that done partially because of Flight of Fear?

That's true but it was still changed. And was FoF more than 15?

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I still yell the life out of me out on the final, double helix just because it's so pimp at night. There is a reason everyone smart heads towards it when the sun goes down...and that is because it's the best experience in the country. Perhaps even the world that time of day.

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The only way I can see them ever changing anything is if something drastic happened (fire, act of god, etc.)

Otherwise, I just can't see them changing a coaster that is one of the main staples of the park.

JMO.

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I've had a more lost in the woods and no way to get out at night on rides like Boulder Dash and Outlaw Run than I have on The Beast. To the person that said it would cause maintenance issues to get rid of the trims, Millennium Fliers are lighter and can handle turns much better tha PTCs can. Also, to the person saying it drops because there's a drop in the terrain there, the shed area is a good 30+ feet off the ground, so add a dip there because the terrain is lower, to use your argument against you. I never said to change anything with the double helix other than removing trims because Millennium Fliers can handle the turns better. If something can be done to improve The Beast for the better, why wouldn't you do it? The ride is far from perfect. It's not even in my top 10 woodies. (Which is actually a pretty strong list.) The ride can definitely have some changes done to it without changing the core of what the ride is. I don't think, no, rather I know adding another dip and removing trims will not change anything the ride is about. It is a ride through the woods, and unless the ride was shortened to the point where it was the double helix and nothing more, that will not change.

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From an ROI standpoint, I don't see the point.  Its already one of, if not, the most popular coaster in the park.  What would changing it accomplish?  I think it would irk more people (thinking about the local GP here) than anything. 

 

Also, Millennium Flyers may be great trains, but they along with riders have their limitations.  Taking that first turn out of the first tunnel too fast would create some pretty strong laterals there.  I also don't think the structure could take that kind of abuse on the turns minus trims being as old as it is (remember, most of it is original).  MF's still weigh quite a bit, and taking those turns at 60+ mph constantly through daily operations would still take a toll.  

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I've had a more lost in the woods and no way to get out at night on rides like Boulder Dash and Outlaw Run than I have on The Beast. To the person that said it would cause maintenance issues to get rid of the trims, Millennium Fliers are lighter and can handle turns much better tha PTCs can. Also, to the person saying it drops because there's a drop in the terrain there, the shed area is a good 30+ feet off the ground, so add a dip there because the terrain is lower, to use your argument against you. I never said to change anything with the double helix other than removing trims because Millennium Fliers can handle the turns better. If something can be done to improve The Beast for the better, why wouldn't you do it? The ride is far from perfect. It's not even in my top 10 woodies. (Which is actually a pretty strong list.) The ride can definitely have some changes done to it without changing the core of what the ride is. I don't think, no, rather I know adding another dip and removing trims will not change anything the ride is about. It is a ride through the woods, and unless the ride was shortened to the point where it was the double helix and nothing more, that will not change.

 

The brake shed is a different story since it needs to be relatively flat and have enough height that the train can complete the circuit. For example that is why FoF has a MCBR near the top of the ride. I didn't say the ride has to hug the ground at all times but that it does follow it most of the ride. And I don't agree that these changes would improve the ride at all. Hence why I am against them.

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^Such a change to the brake run would require much more re-profiling than one may realize as well.  Re-building the ride w/o trims would almost require a complete re-build of the ride, like 80%+.

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Opinions to improve The Beast are like but holes... Everyone has one and they all stink :)

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Let me state I'm against this 100%

But

Racer had structure work done and the end of the ride was changed about 15 years ago

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wasn't that done partially because of Flight of Fear?

No.

The then backwards side was not done until the second year.

It had nothing to do with Flight of Fear. It was done to extend the brake run.

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^I stand corrected.  I thought one of Racers' last hills may have been in the way of the path leading to Flight of Fear prior to its introduction.  I was aware of extending the brake run though.  

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What if The Beast only saw enough work to run Millennium Flyer trains? Obviously, as Wildcat showed us, you can't just put new trains on and call it a day. But they could, in theory, make the necessary profile and gauge adjustments to run flyers.

 

Disclaimer: I like PTC more than the MF trains, but I bet a lot of people would prefer the comfort of the GCI trains.

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Millennium Flyers are like riding on a rolling couch.

The only wooden coaster trains I've ridden that are more comfortable are the PTCs on the Carowinds Hurler. The padding on those is incredibly plush.

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As it once was on Ohio and NJ PTC's.

As for KI's, I blame Ollie Linden. That gentleman insisted on hard polystyrene/polyurethane foam as he was insistent that it was lower maintenance. Rider comfort was not something he cared about. I doubt he ever liked riding a roller coaster.

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^^ nice nugget of info. I would not have known anything about this unless stated before in past threads I haven't discovered.

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So is the hard foam a KI thing or a state thing? And Ollie Linden? Still alive?

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Even when under different ownership, Cedar Point and Kings Island did a lot of collaboration on maintenance and operational issues. And Great Adventure has always admired and respected Kings Island--heck, Racer was the stand-in model in the days long before Photoshop when Rolling Thunder was being built. It literally had Great Adventure's placards put on the front of the train for brochure cameos.

And, I asked about Ollie at the park this year. He's apparently live and well.

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