Jump to content
Colonel_SoB_fan

EPCOT is getting a coaster

Recommended Posts

WHY ARE THEY REPLACING RIDES?

 

Disney has a ton of room, why are they repeatedly just replacing rides? Add rides! Add capacity! Keep the classics, while building new ones.

 

There is no reason the Frozen ride couldn't have received a totally new ride instead of being shoehorned into Maelstrom. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The attraction needs to be put out to pasture.  Barely anything has changed from the day it first opened, aside from the new movie they added w Ellen and Bill Nye, which dates to the early 90s, plus a clunky renaming of the ride and some facade work to the outside of the show building.  The attraction suffers from horribly low ridership and its length is very long (about 40 minutes start to finish).  Iger has been saying in recent years that the Epcot we all grew up with (or currently know) will become a hybrid park..some edutainment stuff, but also a good mix of thrill rides as well.  The former Wonders of Life pavilion and Imagination are also set to receive new life in the next few years.  And yes, WDW has a lot of room, but there is a restriction in Walt's will that only about 1/4 of the total land can ever be developed, so in an effort to conserve that land and take advantage of what's already built, Disney isn't interested in major land clearing unless and until a major park expansion takes place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My wife and I will be visiting Epcot in mid-November.  I'm planning on checking out all of my favorite attraction there just in case any of them end up getting closed.  I hate to see rides like this get shut down and replaced.  It absolutely killed me to see Maelstrom get gutted and replaced by a fad that hasn't really proven its longevity yet.  That's another thing, they're ripping out classic rides and replacing them with themes that are popular currently.  Just because Guardians of the Galaxy or Frozen seem popular now, that doesn't mean that people will care about them later.  I wish they'd come up with something new and original that isn't linked to a current IP.   I think the Star Wars and Toy Story Lands in Hollywood Studios is a great idea.  These two properties have been popular for decades with no sign of slowing down.  That park needed a refresh and I think this was a smart move.  What Disney is doing with Pandora in Animal Kingdom and from what we've seen in Epcot so far, I think, are horrible ideas.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see what actually happens with this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to be very disappointed if it is true. It is yet another tame ride being replaced by a thrill ride. In the 90s I remember family trips where we could ride everything together at Epcot. They replaced World of Motion and Horizons with thrill rides, Soarin isn't intense but can make some people sick and replaced Food stocks and now this. I don't mind a coaster at Epcot but not at the expense of another ride. Why can't they build this in Wonder of Life's or Oddyssey's spot instead. I know Wonders of Life is used for festival events but couldn't they use the Millennium Village instead?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The attraction needs to be put out to pasture. Barely anything has changed from the day it first opened, aside from the new movie they added w Ellen and Bill Nye, which dates to the early 90s, plus a clunky renaming of the ride and some facade work to the outside of the show building. The attraction suffers from horribly low ridership and its length is very long (about 40 minutes start to finish). Iger has been saying in recent years that the Epcot we all grew up with (or currently know) will become a hybrid park..some edutainment stuff, but also a good mix of thrill rides as well. The former Wonders of Life pavilion and Imagination are also set to receive new life in the next few years. And yes, WDW has a lot of room, but there is a restriction in Walt's will that only about 1/4 of the total land can ever be developed, so in an effort to conserve that land and take advantage of what's already built, Disney isn't interested in major land clearing unless and until a major park expansion takes place.

Thanks for that information. I had always thought it was an outside decision, like communities pressuring Disney against infringing on their community.

At least now I can see why the refurbishments insread of new building.

I guess we all remember the cartoons and forget the nature specials, and the fact that Walt Disney learned from drawing wildlfe.

We forget that a stodgy fifties-style guy that promoted "family values" can think green.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The attraction needs to be put out to pasture.  Barely anything has changed from the day it first opened, aside from the new movie they added w Ellen and Bill Nye, which dates to the early 90s, plus a clunky renaming of the ride and some facade work to the outside of the show building.  The attraction suffers from horribly low ridership and its length is very long (about 40 minutes start to finish).  Iger has been saying in recent years that the Epcot we all grew up with (or currently know) will become a hybrid park..some edutainment stuff, but also a good mix of thrill rides as well.  The former Wonders of Life pavilion and Imagination are also set to receive new life in the next few years.  And yes, WDW has a lot of room, but there is a restriction in Walt's will that only about 1/4 of the total land can ever be developed, so in an effort to conserve that land and take advantage of what's already built, Disney isn't interested in major land clearing unless and until a major park expansion takes place.

I have to agree fully. I hate to see classic rides get replaced and was very mixed on FEA. It was a great way to infuse some new life into that area, and has actually sparked more education int eh process because kids are asking the CMs how it compares to their home and finding out things about Norway in the process. Whereas before most people skipped the movie, which was the only real educational aspect, and just assumed Norway was all about vikings and trolls.

Universe of Energy though needed to be taken out. Hardly anyone seems to ride it and the ride system is ridiculous. It has not aged well and the video is dated. But the worst part to me is the slow process of the ride. It takes about 40-45 minutes to experience and at least half the time is spent sitting in a car waiting for the others to move with nothing to really look at or do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ugh. Siiigh.

 

Listen, Disney. I get it. Attendance is supposedly down. IP-based rides bring in the people. Universal is raking the dough in with Potter IP. Seems like an obvious choice to bring popular IPs to the parks. I get it. I do.

 

I'm probably going to nauseate Disney purists, but I don't totally mind IP in Epcot. It's what people expect when they visit Disney parks. I fully believe it can be handled in a way that remains true to Epcot's original theme. IP should never, ever replace the original theme of Epcot, but it certainly can have a place alongside it. What actually is ruined about your day by walking past an Aurora meet-and-greet in the France pavilion? If the China pavilion had a Mulan ride in conjunction with what's already there, is that actually a negative to your day? In my opinion, IP used alongside the existing Epcot experience isn't a terrible thing... Mostly.

 

The Frozen ride in the Norway pavilion is right on the line for me. Quite frankly, I never recall anyone raving about Maelstrom until it was announced that it would be removed. Nobody who posted here saying they were going to visit WDW were told, "Don't miss the boat ride in Norway in the World Showcase at Epcot!" Like with Son of Beast, Mean Streak, CP's Wildcat, Big Bad Wolf, and several other rides over the years, fans started popping out of the woodwork once its closure was announced. I'll admit that I never rode it, but it does seem like a ride in Maelstrom's location could have been a bigger draw than what Maelstrom was. Maelstrom didn't appear to be a strong component of the quintessential Epcot experience to anyone prior to the announcement that it was being removed.

 

In retrospect, I think my biggest issue with at the time was that I, as someone outside Frozen's target audience, was burnt out on Frozen. Now that the ride is here, my bigger issue with it is that there really doesn't appear to be any discernible story to the whole thing. It's ineffective storytelling that exists to name-drop (or, more specifically, animatronic-drop) Anna, Elsa, Olaf, Kristoff, Sven, and any other buzzwords they could think of. And that's a bummer, because I feel like a Frozen ride could actually lend itself to the Norway pavilion as being a legend or popular story of the country. It could be presented like that, and I'd be totally fine with it. I don't know. Just don't use it as a flashy money grab is all I ask.

 

Which is where Guardians of the Galaxy's placement at Disney parks concerns me. Frankly, they've shown apathy over where it went at DCA. As someone who doesn't intimately understand the story of Epcot but who has read the right articles on Theme Park Tourist ( ;) ), it seems to me like Epcot will always be prone to the same problems that affect the Tomorrowlands: the future is always changing, so the theme has to change along with it. Future World is dated--I don't think anyone will argue against that. I might even argue that Wall-E and GotG and Meet the Robinsons could be good catalysts for updating Future World--not as replacements for what Epcot is, but as motifs for what Future World could look like. If Epcot is a World's Fair, then what better represents the future of technology than themes of green energy and space exploration and contact with extraterrestrial life/technology and the concept of time travel? Why can't rides and experiences explore the development of those technologies?

 

But based off of GotG at DCA and Frozen in the Norway pavilion, Disney isn't giving the impression that they intend to use IP in that way. They intend to do a "cheap and cheerful" smash-and-grab for people's money using pretty effects to name-drop Peter Quill. I want to think more of Disney than that... I hope I'm wrong.

 

Sorry if the train of thought of this post is confusing. I'm kinda tired.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't apologize, it makes sense. I wouldn't like a Coney Island ride, with all of it's bright colors and lights, to be smack dab in Rivertown.

I don't understand the ambiance of EPCOT, never went there, but I had always had the notion that it was a child's introduction to the culrutes of the world. Not worlds, where things from space land and and talk and make like hooligans.

When I saw the POV for the Frozen ride, I'll admit it was confusing to me, also. I recall the Peter Pan ride went through the synopsis of the movie, and didn't just show random characters doing random things.

There's really not a place in Tomorrowland for the Guardians, either, because they are present day. All the spaceships and stuff aren't the future, it's what alien races have now.

It's just going to have to evolve where superheroes get corralled into one area of the park.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Disney bought Marvel and would love to use it in any way possible. But there is questions about how to use it because once Infinity Gauntlet comes outs GotG will be associated with the Avengers so who knows.

As for Epcot the world is very different than it was before. Even only 20 years ago if a kid wanted to know what French or Chinese culture looked like they had to do a few things read a book, rent a movie, or go to a place like Epcot. Now they can turn on their phone and Google traditional Chinese dances or traditional dishes of Luxemburg not only is the information quicker but it's video or how to videos.

I can watch a show from any country (almost) without leaving my bed. Epcot feels to me (imho) almost like a Ren Fair. Walk around talk to people but that's about it.

The traditional shows that are often played are great but I'm not sure that that park is another must go when we return next year. (Yet I still want to try out the Frozen ride).

Tl:dr I agree with tomb raider but for different reasons

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, don't lose sight of the fact that LOTS of foot traffic is driven to Epcot in the Fall for the Food & Wine fest, and again in the spring for the Flower show.  Disney is trying to keep those guests in the park after they've sampled some food and had a few thimbles of wine.  There is a lot of space available for repurposing-both Commnicores, Odyssey, Wonders of Life, plus the underutilized space in Imagination. I'm sure the GOTG replacement won't be a cheap overlay of some sort.  Disney knows what the competition is doing, whether it be over at Universal (Kong, Potter), or even parks like SIX (Justice League). It may not have the 'Wow' factor like Pandora hopefully will, or the new FL at MK, but it will be another reason to stick around the park, instead of bolting for MK, AK or DHS.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The old Wonders of Life building is frequently rented to companies and for private events. It is unlikely it will be used for an attraction.

A section of the Imagination pavilion was turned into a private DVC club earlier this year.

I am not surprised the Universe of Energy attraction is just old and out of date. Guardians of the Galaxy is one of the few Marvel properties they could get away with utilizing at Disney World. It just feels like something which should be at the studios. But then I keep hoping that Disney realizes just how terrible Dinosaur over at Animal Kingdom is and just turns it into Indiana Jones like at Disneyland. The track layout is almost identical they just need to rip out all the theming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, don't lose sight of the fact that LOTS of foot traffic is driven to Epcot in the Fall for the Food & Wine fest, and again in the spring for the Flower show.  Disney is trying to keep those guests in the park after they've sampled some food and had a few thimbles of wine.  There is a lot of space available for repurposing-both Commnicores, Odyssey, Wonders of Life, plus the underutilized space in Imagination. I'm sure the GOTG replacement won't be a cheap overlay of some sort.  Disney knows what the competition is doing, whether it be over at Universal (Kong, Potter), or even parks like SIX (Justice League). It may not have the 'Wow' factor like Pandora hopefully will, or the new FL at MK, but it will be another reason to stick around the park, instead of bolting for MK, AK or DHS.

I don't know about cheap overlays with their superhero division. These are the people that design movies by storyboard a year before camera one gets warmed up. They pore and peruse over James Gunn's post-its (available online) to get a load of what yhe heck he was thinking before the dust of his first GOTG movie was settled, then have a comic book artist redo it to make sense of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Epcot does not need thrill rides, but that's beside the point.

 

I'm all for updating Epcot and keeping it fresh and exciting, and thrill rides can be a way to do that. However, the park has a very unusual, brilliant, and thoughtful purpose – a permanent World's Fair of idealogical pavilions, each focused on a single overarching topic of science, technology, innovation and industry: OCEAN, LAND, IMAGINATION, TRANSPORTATION, SPACE, LIFE, ENERGY, COMMUNICATION

 

See Test Track as an example of a 21st Century solution for making a TRANSPORTATION pavilion a stand-out; Spaceship Earth as a cornerstone of a COMMUNICATION pavilion, with an in-depth ride through the history of communication; Living With the Land, even Soarin', are phenomenal anchors for the LAND pavilion.

 

Similarly, an ENERGY pavilion can and should be anchored by an exciting, informative, and high energy dark ride. I imagine it with trackless vehicles through a blacklight comic book world examining how fossil fuels, wind power, hydro power, and more work and how they affect our world. Off the top of my head, how about energy super heroes using their abilities to combat a super villain named Blackout? With a post-show exhibit where you can test what it's like to harness energy to create your own super powers. There! Easy! Done! An exciting, thrilling ride packed with original characters that educates and entertains.

 

But that's not what Epcot is for anymore, and it sucks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see your point but (respectfully) what's the point of that from an entertainment view anymore? In the 70s and 80s yes. But if it's educational give me something I can't do by ordering from Amazon or Kenwood Mall.

In your energy post show I thought it was a great idea till I thought well I can buy a solar kit to charge my phone or run a remote control car.

I can explore around my house or world with my own drone...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've got a drone? Then why ride Soarin'? 

 

You can drive on the highway yourself. Why ride Test Track?

 

You can also go to your local zoo or pet your dog. Why go to Animal Kingdom?

 

You can ride at roller coaster at Cedar Point. Why go to Kings Island?

 

You can watch behind the scenes features on your DVD. Why go to Universal Studios Hollywood?

 

You can order a solar kit from Amazon, so Epcot shouldn't bother having educational attractions?

 

With equal respect, I'm offering that theme parks supersize the experience you can get elsewhere. Their purpose to give immense scale and leave an impression. They're grand things, master-planned and designed and emotionally charged.

 

You can read a fairytale on your own. Why go to Magic Kingdom?

 

Sure, Epcot brings the story of transportation and communication and energy to life, but that shouldn't be any less valuable than bringing The Little Mermaid or Beauty and The Beast to life, in my mind. Not as sexy, but still fascinating and captivating if it's done right. And just like reading The Little Mermaid doesn't compare to stepping into Prince Eric's Castle in New Fantasyland, I'd argue that buying a solar kit to charge your phone is quite a bit different than going on a trackless, spinning dark ride where super heroes demonstrate the incredible power of energy and resources.

 

That's not to say today's Epcot is a shining example of bringing the stories of earth, ocean, energy, land, communication, etc. to stunning, captivating life. It's not. It's a piecemeal park that's lost its identity. It's rudderless and has all but tossed its mission and purpose overboard. But the concept of an educational pavilion park, I would argue, is NOT fundamentally flawed. Yes, Epcot's origin, architecture, and (some of its) content is unfortunately rooted in its 70s design and 80s opening. But the formula of a park that inspires through entertaining isn't dated or pointless in my mind. (And having a park based on scientific concepts does NOT mean it will need totally overhauled every decade, either... But that's neither here nor there.) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see your point but (respectfully) what's the point of that from an entertainment view anymore? In the 70s and 80s yes. But if it's educational give me something I can't do by ordering from Amazon or Kenwood Mall.

In your energy post show I thought it was a great idea till I thought well I can buy a solar kit to charge my phone or run a remote control car.

I can explore around my house or world with my own drone...

The problem is that, for the most part, what EPCOT can offer we can do at home. We can explore 3-d models of the brain, we can use an app to travel 9000 miles in space.

Just my thought

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with EPCOT is that it died 15-20 years ago as technology moved too fast for them to update the park.  At this point EPCOT is so far outdated from its original concept that the cost to bring it up to speed makes very little sense.  Personally I think rides placed in the World Showcase like Frozen make a great deal of sense, especially with rumors of Ratatoui coming to France.  Nobody ever complains about the Grand Fiesta boat ride in the Mexico pavilion staring the 3 Cableroes.  Nor does anyone complain about Nemo being added to the Seas pavilion so these additions make sense. 

 

Something like Guardians of the Galaxy makes sense as an attraction for Disney World, at EPCOT I am not sure, but then again they have lots of unused spaces, buildings and outdated attractions.  I could have seen this ride fitting in Tomorrowland better, but rumor has it a Tron light cycle coaster will be added there.  So adding it to a park with a Spaceship based attraction could make sense, or the Future World of the park becomes more of combination of Future/Fantasy World.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The old Wonders of Life building is frequently rented to companies and for private events. It is unlikely it will be used for an attraction.

A section of the Imagination pavilion was turned into a private DVC club earlier this year.

I am not surprised the Universe of Energy attraction is just old and out of date. Guardians of the Galaxy is one of the few Marvel properties they could get away with utilizing at Disney World. It just feels like something which should be at the studios. But then I keep hoping that Disney realizes just how terrible Dinosaur over at Animal Kingdom is and just turns it into Indiana Jones like at Disneyland. The track layout is almost identical they just need to rip out all the theming.

No doubt those spaces serve their current functions well, but they're hardly the highest and best use for the space.  Space can always be found for DVC members and if the Wonders of Life is repurposed, there are other spaces in the park suitable for corporate functions (any of the post-show spaces in the Future World attractions, for example).  Or, Disney could always just take a backstage area, create a reception hall, pair it with access to other behind the scenes stuff at the park, charge a premium price for such access and kill two birds with one stone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...