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SonofBaconator

The Giga Speculation Thread

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On 1/17/2019 at 9:12 PM, CoastersRZ said:

Not to sound harsh, but how do you know that KI doesn`t really keep sustained growth after a major attraction?  Are you privy to their attendance numbers?  

Keep in mind that it was reported one one of the Cedar Fair conference calls, that season pass sales were down at KI this year compared to last year.  But last year they apparently had a record year for pass sales, which makes the comparison difficult.  I believe they said that while pass sales were down this year at KI, they were still one of the top years they have had.  

KI's attendance problem is that the majority is season pass holders. Season pass holders don't spend money while in the park, so a major attraction would help bring in one time visitors who stay in the park and spend all their money while there.

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Again, how do you know that the majority of Kings Island`s attendance is from season pass holders?  Furthermore, the notion that season pass holders do not spend money while in the park is somewhat false.  With the addition of the season pass dining plan, drink plan, I believe that the park today is getting more money out of their season pass base then they ever have before.  It also incentivises the pass holders to visit more frequently.  add in special events like the Snoopy event last year, and the ice skating and cookie decorating at Winterfest and you provide more opportunities for pass holders to open their wallet and part with their money.

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On 1/17/2019 at 8:10 PM, MDMC01 said:

I remember that night. I went after work and it was the most crowded I had ever seen the park. I waited about two and a half hours for Mystic and it was (mostly) worth it.

I waited like 4 and a half hours that night, but that does include the time when it went down. 

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6 hours ago, Dan said:

KI's attendance problem is that the majority is season pass holders. Season pass holders don't spend money while in the park, so a major attraction would help bring in one time visitors who stay in the park and spend all their money while there.

So locals are going to fill up the $35 million+ (3 hotels) that are currently under construction within 5 miles of the park?

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10 hours ago, CoastersRZ said:

Again, how do you know that the majority of Kings Island`s attendance is from season pass holders?  Furthermore, the notion that season pass holders do not spend money while in the park is somewhat false.  With the addition of the season pass dining plan, drink plan, I believe that the park today is getting more money out of their season pass base then they ever have before.  It also incentivises the pass holders to visit more frequently.  add in special events like the Snoopy event last year, and the ice skating and cookie decorating at Winterfest and you provide more opportunities for pass holders to open their wallet and part with their money.

When I worked there I could look up the attendance figures and see how many were pass holders. If there were a lot of pass holders I knew we wouldn’t be busy and I would cut staff.

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9 hours ago, d-lo775 said:

So locals are going to fill up the $35 million+ (3 hotels) that are currently under construction within 5 miles of the park?

I’m not sure why you are asking me this question?

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He is stating that the three hotels likely are going to be occupied by tourists and not locals to the area.  These tourists likely will go to Kings Island for at least one day.  

There was a figure from early after the Cedar Fair acquisition of the Paramount Parks that stated roughly 40% of the attendance at the Paramount Parks was from pass holders.  Granted that was over ten years ago, and a lot has changed since then.  I still disagree with your sentiments about the percentage of pass holders who visit the parks.  There are group sales and walk up admissions that contribute to the attendance.  

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So back onto the giga talk. What kinda launch speed would it need to make it up the 300+ foot hill and how step would that hill be. Also would you need about the space TTD takes up for that launch? ( Just the starting point to where you head up the hill)

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Lightning Rod has a launch hill, although it did have lots of issues initially and it’s not over 300ft high, it looks like a pretty smooth launch. The technology is there for a good launch. I’ve never ridden it so, for those who have, isbit an exciting launch? 

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I Would like to see a separate unload area for getting off of the ride like the Disney coasters, or FOF.  Banshee has figured the process out for the most part, but seeing the amount of time wasted at Diamondback with the trains being stacked all the time makes me think with the amount of ridership the coaster will have, it would be more efficient to do it this way.  That extra 30 seconds per train or however long adds up at the end of the day and allows for more riders for the day and quicker wait times.  Just my opinion!

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Expedition Everest is a perfect example. One train is unloading while one is loading. Then a clean empty train moves forwards. FOF was designed to do that too but then when the restraints changed with seatbelts, the process began to drag A LOT. In the beginning an empty train was waiting in the tunnel and shortly after the launch it moved forwards to the station. Then with the seatbelts and loose items collection etc, it  (fo me) became more exciting to walk down the exit rather than torture myself with a long wait. With a giga, it would be cool to exit to a new platform rather than the station, and in the Firehawk area there is plenty of room for a creative exit plan.

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Expedition Everest is a great example of this!  The sort of system you described is exactly what I was thinking about. I would love this type of system if we end up with this Giga!

  While it is a bummer about the seat belts on FOF taking so long to get the trains ready for launch, I do much prefer these restraints to the OTSRs that used to be on this ride.  Sacrificed loading speed for ride comfort in that case.  

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23 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

A better example could be Millennium Force since that is indeed a giga that has both a loading station and an unloading station. I was amazed at how fast loading was with that extra station.

I didnt realize that!  It has been about 13 years since I have been on MF and forgot about it loading/unloading this way.

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47 minutes ago, CoastersRZ said:

But Millennium Force is an Intamin.  Are there any B&M coasters out there that have a separate unload and load area?

B&M can learn a lesson from Intamin ;) J/k for real though. If we are stuck with a B&M giga they could do something like that but I have never see na B&M do that. So who knows.

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I'll bet money they're going with a Chain Lift, and one Unloading and Loading station. I can't see them taking risks after things like SoB. The park doesn't need an unreliable experimental ride. Just my opinion.

 

(Remember, it's b&m, they don't take risks often)

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Just now, SonofBaconator said:

Are two stations that hard a feat? I think B&M would be capable of making two stations on a coaster similar to Flight of Fear or Millennium Force.

Oh I think it's probably easy, they're just known for not changing anything in 20 years.

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B&M has done duel stations before, but more along the lines of Firehawk's station.  Its only on a few of their flying coasters, though, I can't imagine they'd not utilize it on other models.  With the capacity B&M hypers offer, I don't really think 2 stations or a duel station is necessary.  B&M flyers have the excuse of lengthy loading times at least.  

Also, you can't really say what B&M can and can't do with a giga since they've only built 2.  Two is not a trend.

Also also- I remember a time before Leviathan that everyone was saying B&M would never go over 250 ft.  They've also been delving into different inversion and element types and shaping as well (ex. notice newer B&M's don't have the pre-drop after the lift anymore).  They're certainly changing,  just in more subtle ways than everyone wants them to.  

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9 hours ago, CoastersRZ said:

Are there any B&M coasters out there that have a separate unload and load area?

Dueling Dragons had separate load and unload zones.  That's the only B&M that's had them to the best of my knowledge.

When the KI giga comes, I would hope that the park would opt to have things set up Fury 325 style.  The small stretch of track between the station and the lift hill can serve as its own block.  Fury can actually have a train on the lift hill while dispatching the train that's in the station.  The train simply stops on that section of track and is held until the train ahead of it is at the far turnaround by the front gate.  That setup frees up the station to have a train in the station unloading and loading while others are out on the course.  That is one of the reasons why the hourly capacity on that coaster is amazing.

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To be fair, KI lists a Giga as a hyper. They don't label it like enthusiasts. So my point in that is I don't think they'll change the Relatively efficient way they've ran Hypers and Gigas for the last 20 years. Sure I could be wrong, but when I went to Carowinds, Fury's line flew by because of the well oiled machine B&M had in place for capacity. Hey I could be wrong, you never know. 

(Edit: when I said KI lists it as a hyper, I meant B&M)

Edited by JudeHoward

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12 hours ago, gad198 said:

Dueling Dragons had separate load and unload zones.  That's the only B&M that's had them to the best of my knowledge.

When the KI giga comes, I would hope that the park would opt to have things set up Fury 325 style.  The small stretch of track between the station and the lift hill can serve as its own block.  Fury can actually have a train on the lift hill while dispatching the train that's in the station.  The train simply stops on that section of track and is held until the train ahead of it is at the far turnaround by the front gate.  That setup frees up the station to have a train in the station unloading and loading while others are out on the course.  That is one of the reasons why the hourly capacity on that coaster is amazing.

The block between the station and the lift hill along with the insanely long break run at the end almost eliminates stacking- and that's even without a MCBR. Diamondback is the only coaster I know of with a MCBR that is infamous for stacking. 

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