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SonofBaconator

The Giga Speculation Thread

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Also, precisely where are you getting those attendance figures? Cedar Fair does not release attendance figures for individual parks. Any such numbers floating around out there are estimates or guesses by outsiders, and are likely to be highly inaccurate.

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2 minutes ago, jcgoble3 said:

Also, precisely where are you getting those attendance figures? Cedar Fair does not release attendance figures for individual parks. Any such numbers floating around out there are estimates or guesses by outsiders, and are likely to be highly inaccurate.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2017/06/cedar_point_sees_nearly_3_perc.html

My point was even with a new coaster CP, a destination park drawing people from large cities such as Detroit, Toronto, Cleveland, columbus, pittsburg, buffalo, fort wayne, etc.  Barely drew more visitors than KI which is a regional park.

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As a Cedar Point person (my home park) I can say we are kind of jealous of Mystic Timbers. We only have one wooden roller coaster which is an old out and back. We desperately need a modern GCI. I rode Mystic Timbers and can say that it is one of the best rides at Kings Island. The theming is great on Mystic Timbers and it’s just a fantastic ride overall. I rank Mystic Timbers far above GateKeeper, Rougarou, and Valravn. You guys didn’t get the short end of the stick at all. Especially since you might have a giga brewing up pretty soon.

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5 minutes ago, CoasterKyle1121 said:

As a Cedar Point person (my home park) I can say we are kind of jealous of Mystic Timbers. We only have one wooden roller coaster which is an old out and back. We desperately need a modern GCI. I rode Mystic Timbers and can say that it is one of the best rides at Kings Island. The theming is great on Mystic Timbers and it’s just a fantastic ride overall. I rank Mystic Timbers far above GateKeeper, Rougarou, and Valravn. You guys didn’t get the short end of the stick at all. Especially since you might have a giga brewing up pretty soon.

We will trade you mystic for Steel vengeanceB)

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2 hours ago, Tera Ryzing said:

We will trade you mystic for Steel vengeanceB)

No thanks. They had to suffer through decades of Mean Streak to eventually get SV. KI already suffered long enough with SoB... let's not compound that pain.

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7 hours ago, Tera Ryzing said:

We will trade you mystic for Steel vengeanceB)

Who this "we" you speak of in your post? :P I would not trade MT.

If we get an RMC, I want it to be a ground up, not a conversion.

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10 hours ago, Tera Ryzing said:

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2017/06/cedar_point_sees_nearly_3_perc.html

My point was even with a new coaster CP, a destination park drawing people from large cities such as Detroit, Toronto, Cleveland, columbus, pittsburg, buffalo, fort wayne, etc.  Barely drew more visitors than KI which is a regional park.

That article cites exactly the source I thought it would: the TEA's annual report. Those numbers are highly suspect and I would not trust them at all. As I said, Cedar Fair does NOT release actual attendance figures for individual parks. Therefore TEA's numbers are nothing more than wild guesses, since they do not have access to any hard data at all. Put bluntly, they're bull****.

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Just curious what everyone’s opinion/guesstimate is on attendance between CP and KI.  The differences such as operating season/waterpark/Winterfest make it a bit more nuanced.  

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I was always under the assumption it was a little over 3 million per park.  CP has been adding destination coasters for almost 30 years.  KI has only added 1 must ride in the same time span which is SOB.  While KI has added quality rides there has not been any destination coasters that you have to come from around the country/world to ride like Magnum, Millenium, and TTD.  We got our invert over 20 years since Raptor which was cutting edge at the time.

If we got a 350' custom Intamin, half out and back with ejector and half terrain twister(SUPES on steroids) in the DA area attendance would spike and boom the local economy.

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1 hour ago, Tera Ryzing said:

I was always under the assumption it was a little over 3 million per park.  CP has been adding destination coasters for almost 30 years.  KI has only added 1 must ride in the same time span which is SOB.  While KI has added quality rides there has not been any destination coasters that you have to come from around the country/world to ride like Magnum, Millenium, and TTD.  We got our invert over 20 years since Raptor which was cutting edge at the time.

If we got a 350' custom Intamin, half out and back with ejector and half terrain twister(SUPES on steroids) in the DA area attendance would spike and boom the local economy.

Cedar Fair wouldn't go to Intamin for another big project like a giga, especially with the problems their rides have been having over the years. 

It honestly wouldn't matter what manufacturer it comes from anyway, it comes down to marketing and advertising. You didn't see nation wide news teams come to KI when Banshee or Mystic Timbers was built like you saw them covering rides like Fury 325 and Valravn.

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Cedar Point also added these "destination coasters" under a different management, I would consider Magnum, Millennium Force, Top Thrill Dragster, and maybe Maverick as "destination", CP hasn't really added anything of late to be considered destination, which is no means considered bad, it just means they are staying the "safe and reliable" route than risking millions of dollars for roller coasters that have terrible downtime. Kings Island will always be a regional theme park in my opinion, and I think that's a safe bet for the long-term future of the park, Cedar Point isn't advertising JUST Steel Vengeance this year, at Winter Chill Out, we were able to see an amazing commercial as part of their new branding that didn't even mention Steel Vengeance, it featured Breakers, Lake Erie, and then Cedar Point that also gave a Disney vibe, I really hope they make the commercial public because it was a very good commercial, they also specifically said that while they are known to be "the roller coaster capital of the world", they wanted to be also known as "the place like no other".

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22 minutes ago, rhyano said:

Cedar Point also added these "destination coasters" under a different management, I would consider Magnum, Millennium Force, Top Thrill Dragster, and maybe Maverick as "destination", CP hasn't really added anything of late to be considered destination, which is no means considered bad, it just means they are staying the "safe and reliable" route than risking millions of dollars for roller coasters that have terrible downtime. Kings Island will always be a regional theme park in my opinion, and I think that's a safe bet for the long-term future of the park, Cedar Point isn't advertising JUST Steel Vengeance this year, at Winter Chill Out, we were able to see an amazing commercial as part of their new branding that didn't even mention Steel Vengeance, it featured Breakers, Lake Erie, and then Cedar Point that also gave a Disney vibe, I really hope they make the commercial public because it was a very good commercial, they also specifically said that while they are known to be "the roller coaster capital of the world", they wanted to be also known as "the place like no other".

KI was once a destination park under different ownership.  The Beast, FoF, sob were all national coasters.

 

Do they have per park profitability?  I would think KI would be pretty profitable in the chain.  CP has more income opportunities but also a lot more overhead.

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5 hours ago, Tera Ryzing said:

I was always under the assumption it was a little over 3 million per park.  CP has been adding destination coasters for almost 30 years.  KI has only added 1 must ride in the same time span which is SOB.  While KI has added quality rides there has not been any destination coasters that you have to come from around the country/world to ride like Magnum, Millenium, and TTD.  We got our invert over 20 years since Raptor which was cutting edge at the time.

If we got a 350' custom Intamin, half out and back with ejector and half terrain twister(SUPES on steroids) in the DA area attendance would spike and boom the local economy.

The local economy boomed under Diamondback, Banshee, and probably with the addition of Mystic. I already posted this somewhere on this site, but tourism in the county was up to 23 or 24% the year Banshee opened. It usually is 4 to 5% annually.

As far as Intamin, Kings Island’s head of Human Resources told me that he doesn’t think the park would work with Intamin for a Giga.

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3 hours ago, Tera Ryzing said:

KI was once a destination park under different ownership.  The Beast, FoF, sob were all national coasters.

 

Do they have per park profitability?  I would think KI would be pretty profitable in the chain.  CP has more income opportunities but also a lot more overhead.

KI was never a destination park lol

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21 minutes ago, rhyano said:

KI was never a destination park lol

It was in the 70s and 80s when it was considered a resort. The park boasted a golf course a campground and at the time a nice hotel. This was a time when KI was actually doing better than Cedar Point IMO. Cedar Point really picked up in the 90s which was coincidentally the same time Paramount purchased KI. Sure Son of Beast brought people from all over the country but it's staple as a destination park has long been forgotten.

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16 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

It was in the 70s and 80s when it was considered a resort. The park boasted a golf course a campground and at the time a nice hotel. This was a time when KI was actually doing better than Cedar Point IMO. Cedar Point really picked up in the 90s which was coincidentally the same time Paramount purchased KI. Sure Son of Beast brought people from all over the country but it's staple as a destination park has long been forgotten.

CP pick up in your opinion with magnum and the intamins?

 

  17 hours ago, KIghostguy said:

The local economy boomed under Diamondback, Banshee, and probably with the addition of Mystic. I already posted this somewhere on this site, but tourism in the county was up to 23 or 24% the year Banshee opened. It usually is 4 to 5% annually.

As far as Intamin, Kings Island’s head of Human Resources told me that he doesn’t think the park would work with Intamin for a Giga.

HR knows the inner workings of the company?  Props for them even knowing about Intamin lol.

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45 minutes ago, Tera Ryzing said:

CP pick up in your opinion with magnum and the intamins?

CP picked up in the 90s because it added more coasters. Magnum XL 200 paved the way for more thrilling rides to follow. Raptor and Mantis were introduced in 90s and if I recall, those were B&Ms...

Sure the Intamins of the 2000s cemented that destination status but its other things as well. Its location for example cannot be beat. Being right along the water gives them an advantage over other parks. They also have the best resorts and hotels of any park in the chain. As an intern for one for their resorts I can say that without a good resort atmosphere, Cedar Point can't really be a good destination park.

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3 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

Being right along the water gives them an advantage over other parks. 

And a disadvantage. Because to add other "rides", they have to remove something. Being landlocked sucks. 

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39 minutes ago, sixohdieselrage said:

And a disadvantage. Because to add other "rides", they have to remove something. Being landlocked sucks. 

That's actually beneficial if you think about it. Being landlocked basically means that Cedar Point has to deliver every time. If they don't install a world class ride or attraction almost everytime, it'll be a complete waste of land. You wouldn't see a S&S Freespin or any other small coasters coming to the peninsula. I'm actually suprised the park got through the 2008-2012 drought. That's part of the reason why Cedar Point is considered to be one of the best- they're super selective and desicive about how they want to improve their park. 

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Cough cough *Pipe Scream* Cough cough  

Thank the coaster gods they are landlocked.   I love it dearly but it is just brutal on the feet.  

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59 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

Cough cough *Pipe Scream* Cough cough  

Thank the coaster gods they are landlocked.   I love it dearly but it is just brutal on the feet.  

But that also came along with an renovated midway area.

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I still prefer KI in that manner. Better terrain usually equates to a better ride layout. Look at Beast or Banshee compared to Mean Streak or Raptor. Again, being on an island isn't always the best. But just my opinion. 

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15 hours ago, KIghostguy said:

The local economy boomed under Diamondback, Banshee, and probably with the addition of Mystic. I already posted this somewhere on this site, but tourism in the county was up to 23 or 24% the year Banshee opened. It usually is 4 to 5% annually.

As far as Intamin, Kings Island’s head of Human Resources told me that he doesn’t think the park would work with Intamin for a Giga.

Key word is *think. Haha

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59 minutes ago, Maverick44 said:

Key word is *think. Haha

He has seen the 5-year plan.

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Right but why would he just tell anyone. I mean it could be true but I don't think someone that high up is just going to flat out say that. I mean that's just my thoughts though.

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This matters more than attendance numbers, and these are straight from CF in 2015.

cedar-point-analyst-day-8-638.jpg?cb=143

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Be angry if I was knotts.  They don't get any love.  Since ki brings in the third best revenue, we should have already had a giga.  

Anyone remember the rumored Giga going to knotts in the early 2010's?  Rumor it was an Intamin, as there is no room for a more traditional out and back(b&m) but plans fell throough.

Edited by Tera Ryzing
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14 minutes ago, Tera Ryzing said:

Since ki brings in the third best revenue, we should have already had a giga.  

Parks have more freedom do decide what attractions they want based off budget than others. Kings Island hasn't necessarily lost its attendance by not installing a giga. Banshee and Mystic Timbers gave over a million rides during their opening seasons and both are under 200ft. See the Trend Setting Theory. 

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^^ I'm not sure I follow. Kings Island has made it to that level of revenue without a coaster over 300' tall. Whatever it is that KI is marketing themselves as is apparently relevant enough without it. That doesn't mean we won't get one, but it also doesn't mean we're owed one or in dire need of one or something. A gigacoaster isn't an award for being towards the top of the chain's EBITDA...

3 hours ago, Maverick44 said:

Right but why would he just tell anyone. I mean it could be true but I don't think someone that high up is just going to flat out say that. I mean that's just my thoughts though.

...It's the head of Human Resources. I'm sure he or she is a very talented person, but his or her sphere of influence is in staffing. I'm not sure why he or she would be part of strategic planning for future attractions. I imagine that person is probably fluent enough in the industry to speculate on whether or not our apparently inevitable giga will come from Intamin.

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9 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

Parks have more freedom do decide what attractions they want based off budget than others. Kings Island hasn't necessarily lost its attendance by not installing a giga. Banshee and Mystic Timbers gave over a million rides during their opening seasons and both are under 200ft. See the Trend Setting Theory. 

Do parks have the freedom, or doe the suits high up call all the shots?  This is corporate america.  If the suits at Cedar Fair headquarters sees that Racer is costing a lot to maintain, they will make the call to RMC it IMO.

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