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SonofBaconator

The Vortex Poll

Vortex Removal Poll  

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  It's no secret that I absolutely love Vortex.  I can't really imagine the park without it.  

  As others have mentioned, that first drop, riding in the back of the train is simply outstanding. The entire ride experience, for me anyway, is a thing of beauty. Breathtaking and intense, just the way it was expected to be in the era it was built. It pushed the limits of what a roller coaster could be, at that time. Many forget it held 3 records when it opened. 

 You'd be hard pressed to find a more photogenic coaster anywhere. 

  I hope for many more years to enjoy this classic Arrow. 

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If Vortex gets replaced, whatever replacing it needs to have 6 inversions or more. Gotta keep that inversion count high.

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At 6'4" and 265...Vortex is rough. Outside of car #1, my knees feel like they've been beaten by a bag of quarters and my collar bones are usually red and sore at the end. Having said that, Vortex has a certain nostalgic value to it. Growing up and coming to KI in the late 80's / early 90's...Vortex and The Beast were the top of the food chain. Riding either of those as an 8 year old (or when even you were tall enough) was a rite of passage.

The only way I would ever promote tearing it down would be if you've got the shovels ready to start building something bigger and better the next day.

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I discovered a newfound love for Vortex after riding in the front row today. I usually just ride towards the back because the lines are shorter, but I decided to wait for the front row and I was definitely not disappointed. Also "Vortex 1987" spelled out in the rocks to the right of the final brake run is a really cool touch!

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If Vortex were to be replaced what do you guys think could replace it? I think it could depend on who Cedar Fairs renewed partnership is with. I could def see it being a Intiman or Mack but I'd prefer seeing a RMC T-Rex. I think the T-Rex will eventually start replacing a lot of Arrow Loopers. I also think that this is the only way RMC ever comes to KI.

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Orange and Blue B&M floorless including a pre drop, a turn around, a double loop, a double Corkscrew, a batwing, followed by a helix. 

How did you come up with such a unique layout?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

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20 hours ago, Sythe said:


How did you come up with such a unique layout?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

1987 called-I answered

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I know multiple people who assume all coasters make them sick/give them headaches because of Vortex. I'd hate to see it go because it is a classic and I remember it from when I was a kid, but all I hear from people is how rough it is.

If someone who lives in this area says they don't like coasters and you ask them why, I'd be willing to be the root of it will be a bad ride on The Vortex where it ruined the rest of their visit.

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On 5/13/2017 at 10:30 PM, SonofBaconator said:

Orange and Blue B&M floorless including a pre drop, a turn around, a double loop, a double Corkscrew, a batwing, followed by a helix. 

I really like your idea. Maybe B&M could create a newer style floorless rollercoaster with the vest restraints like they have on Gatekeeper. I was hoping to see that when they re-did Mantis and transformed it into Rougarou. However, I love Rougarou the way it is. The only thing I would maybe change is the corkscrew at the end of the ride. Other than that Rougarou is a kick a** ride.

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51 minutes ago, Shawn Meyer said:

I really like your idea. Maybe B&M could create a newer style floorless rollercoaster with the vest restraints like they have on Gatekeeper.

I literally just repeated the original Vortex layout in the form of a B&M

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To anyone wanting a new train or restraint.  Vekoma already makes it, you want the MK 1212 trains.  They use a vest instead if the OTSR currently on Vortex.  Old Vekoma coasters and Arrow coasters use the same size track so the train is designed as an upgrade to either.  

 

Cedar Fair has already purchased at least one because when Flying Cobras the boomerang at Carowinds was moved from Geauga Lake they replaced the train with a MK 1212.

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1 hour ago, Kenban said:

To anyone wanting a new train or restraint.  Vekoma already makes it, you want the MK 1212 trains.  They use a vest instead if the OTSR currently on Vortex.  Old Vekoma coasters and Arrow coasters use the same size track so the train is designed as an upgrade to either.  

 

Cedar Fair has already purchased at least one because when Flying Cobras the boomerang at Carowinds was moved from Geauga Lake they replaced the train with a MK 1212.

Have they used these trains on other arrow coasters? I thought all the boomerang coasters were Vekoma.

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10 hours ago, TheRickster said:

Have they used these trains on other arrow coasters? I thought all the boomerang coasters were Vekoma.

To my knowledge Cedar Fair has not, they have only been purchasing the trains for Boomerang coasters and only when they move them to a new location.  There was a rumor over the winter that Cedar Fair purchased another MK 1212 train but after it was announced the boomerang at Knott's was closing it makes sense that train is for when the ride is moved.  

Vekoma openly advertises these trains as upgrades for old Arrow trains at events such as IAAPA.  Vekoma got into the roller coaster business by partnering with Arrow and the early Vekoma coasters use Arrow trains and the track is directly from the Arrow blueprints.  The same company manufactured track for both companies.

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9 hours ago, Kenban said:

To my knowledge Cedar Fair has not, they have only been purchasing the trains for Boomerang coasters and only when they move them to a new location.  There was a rumor over the winter that Cedar Fair purchased another MK 1212 train but after it was announced the boomerang at Knott's was closing it makes sense that train is for when the ride is moved.  

Vekoma openly advertises these trains as upgrades for old Arrow trains at events such as IAAPA.  Vekoma got into the roller coaster business by partnering with Arrow and the early Vekoma coasters use Arrow trains and the track is directly from the Arrow blueprints.  The same company manufactured track for both companies.

Yeah I knew all that about vekoma and arrows past, but I wasn't sure if there would be a legal liability should a park use a vekoma train when it wasn't originally in the design. You answered the questions since they are advertising it as a direct replacement.

 

Vortex could greatly be improved with these. But tbh, I'm curious if they aren't seeing it as being towards end of life and wouldn't want to put the money into it.

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Not that I think anything is wrong with it's current trains, but they are older Arrow Loopers in the Cedar Fair Chain. Vortex and Anaconda are actually the babies of the Arrow Loopers in the chain.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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If Vortex gets replaced with another looping coaster, I hope its Mack to keep KI with a multi-looper in its collection with a 48" height requirement.  

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I'd love more Morgan retrofits... I'm surprised parks didn't hop on that train like they are with RMC coasters these days. Phantom's Revenge is a fun ride.

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I am trying to think like the park and understand the benefits of changing trains (assuming the existing track and trains are fine.) The only one I have been on that sort of fits would be T3.

Other than the restraints, will the ride experience be any better? I can't see where new trains will help on an arrow. Did not seem to help much for T3. If not, and we are not seeing a rash of complaints about the OTSR's why invest in it?

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Isn't the problem the head banging with the OTSR's?  Or does it go beyond that?

After seeing what it did to Kiefer last year I haven't tried it to experience it myself as I have an 1 1/2 hour  drive home and can't do that safely with a mild concussion.  

 

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I experience head banging on Vortex, The Bat but mostly on Invertigo. I never had the privilege to know what it's like to ride a coaster with vest restraints until 2014 and now my opinion on OTSRs has changed. I'd love all OTSR rides to be converted to vest restraints, or at least in our park. I think it would be a noticable difference among the GP and the enthusiasts.

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Well, I have finally ridden The Vortex and it wasn't what I expected. My friends who I rode with told me the ride was horrible and rough but I blocked them out thinking in my head it can't be that bad. But the sad truth was that it was that bad, The only good part about the ride in my opinion was the drop and that is it. The head banging I experienced was so SO BAD, I couldn't even lay back and enjoy the ride because I was so busy trying to hold my head in one position so my head wouldn't bang back and forth, The sad truth is that I thought Vortex was over-hated but from my experience it really isn't, the ride just isn't enjoyable. I got off with a headache and disappointment because I couldn't believe how (I hate using this term but I must) bad the ride was. I can't see myself riding it that often, maybe a twice a season just for the heck of it. But other than that I don't see myself coming close to it anymore. For now, I think the ride should stay but I think it should get removed maybe in the next 6-10 years for a B&M twister or a ground up RMC. The thing was that I came to this ride with an Unbiased opinion towards it, even thinking it received to much hate, But to say the least I can't say I Hate The Vortex but I can't blame the people who do. The real question I have is how do some people enjoy this ride (no disrespect) but what do you guys who like Vortex like about it, I honestly want to know.

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For me, my big secret is relaxing. My brother, who used to go to Kings Island with his friends all the time when he was in high school, told me that if I tense up during the ride (on ANY ride; he actually told me this before my first ride on The Beast in 2008) I would feel worse; on the other hand, the experience would be better if I (at least tried to) relax, and it helps. I have offered this tip to numerous Vortex riders and they tell me upon returning to the station that relaxing has helped them have a better experience. I HIGHLY suggest relaxing during the ride, as I have experienced virtually no headbanging and therefore no headaches. I am literally not making this up! @jcgoble3 tried this when he rode Vortex with me on Easter Sunday and he said he had a more pleasant ride than what he remembered from his past experiences.

As for head position, it differs. During my 366 rides on Vortex thus far, I have tried riding with my head forward and with my head back, and both generally help. I'm in the habit of keeping my head forward, as I have done it since my first rides in 2010, noticing that while the ride jostles me from side to side, my head does not hit the restraint if I keep my head forward. But sitting back may work just as well!

What I like about Vortex is that different seats on the train offer different experiences. The front offers a great view of what's ahead and a lot of positive G's especially at the bottom of the first drop and in the inversions. The middle offers the most hang time in the corkscrews - and that's my favorite part of the ride! The back offers the wildest ride, and by wildest I mean crazy ejector air on the first drop and getting pulled through the inversions. The batwing is my favorite part when I ride in the back because one can get some hang time for a second before getting pulled through - it's a cool feeling! Then of course there's the supposed "magic seat" - the first row of the fifth car. I have ridden in that row, and yes, it does offer one of the smoothest rides.

@Xdog42, where did you sit? I wonder what made for such an unpleasant experience. I'm really sorry you did not enjoy your ride on Vortex. :( To be honest, I firmly believe that Vortex is over-hated to an extent; at work I have met countless people who enjoy and love Vortex, including young kids with the purple 48" wristbands. And yes, I have met riders who don't really care about the ride. It's different for everyone, including you, but I hope soon you could give Vortex a second chance. It could be the case that it runs better some days than others, but even as a ride operator at Vortex, I can only guess. Vortex has a personality all of its own. :) 

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@VortexBFForever I sat on the last train on the front side of it, SO if The Vortex has like 7 trains (I have no Idea) I ride 7-1 on the right seat. I really did enjoy the drop and some parts here and there were ok, but most of it was hard to enjoy. Tell me which row you think is the best to sit in and I will definitely try it out again and I will take your advice on relaxing. Also, I think the Batwing was a cool inversion but the thing that I really didn't appreciate about it is that when I went through the first half of it, my head bang right into the restraints so hard. This probably isn't the first time this has been said but I think the ride would be so much more enjoyable if it had lap bars.  

EDIT* I have been reading some info on good seating on this ride and some people said 7-1 is actually good, IDK if I got a once in a while bad ride on Vortex or if some rows or worst than the one I rode on? 

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@Xdog42 If you want a smoother ride, try 5-1 (first row of the fifth car). I have ridden there and it's pretty smooth; other members can attest to that. Also it wouldn't hurt to try sitting in/near the front (1st, 2nd cars), as I suppose getting suddenly pulled through the batwing in 7-1 was what caused your head to bang. I usually ride on the left side (just out of habit) so if you want you can see if that makes any difference.

Another tip: The hard right turn into the mid-course brakes is especially tight, especially when the train whips back upright which surprises many riders. During the turn, don't tense up trying to remain sitting straight, but instead lean to the left (as the forces in the turn sort of send you to the left anyway - physics :)). It's not a huge thing to do but it saves your head. 

Also, part of it is just getting used to the ride in general. My supervisor got a headache on his first few rides on Vortex, but as he got used to it he didn't get headaches anymore.

So, a lot of different factors contribute to one's experience riding Vortex, and apparently I literally have it down to a science... :P 

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@VortexBFForever Thanks for the info, I will definitely try out 5-1 and 1-1 and take the tips you said. Also, I am very impressed with how much you know about this ride, If I have any questions about Vortex I'll definitely come to you to ask! 

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I agree 5-1 is the smoothest seat on the train. But 7-1 is the best seat on the train lol. I've been riding Vortex for 30 years and have enjoyed it since day 1.

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Whether any particular lap produces a good experience or not, I still say that a ride is inherently flawed when one must ride only in a certain manner to have an enjoyable ride. On that basis alone, Vortex is a poor ride and should be replaced. I wonder how many people have actually suffered concussions on Vortex from the headbanging without realizing it at the time?

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I could say the same about Maverick, yet that gets a free pass somehow.  You have to have extreme control over your upper body to get a comfortable ride on that.  I felt I was fighting the train WAY more than Vortex's worst seats. 

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