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Maverick44

What could 2018 bring KI

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6 hours ago, LoadAndGo said:

Theming is one of those things that you have to fully commit to, or not. Sure, one particular theming element not working may not affect attendance or the guest experience, but the combination of many broken elements will negatively affect guest perception. If your gun doesn't work on Boo Blasters, then the screens on Mystic are frozen, then the flames don't work on Backlot, then the music doesn't play on FOF, then half of AE's animatronics don't move, it's reasonable you might feel that the park is not properly maintained and does not offer a quality experience.

It blows my mind that so many on this site believe that it is simply impossible for CF to theme their attractions. It's almost like some actively fight against the idea of theming. No one is saying that CF should build Flight of Passage, but we should expect a certain level of quality and immersion.

I highly recommend a book by David Younger entitled "Theme Park Design & The Art Of Themed Entertainment" Younger explains how operations from small family fun centers to large Disney parks benefit from a purposeful and intentional design. He explains how theming and storytelling always pay off. Any true fan of this industry should read this book.

I have a feeling that social media plays in to this a lot as well - a cool theme to a ride will get people talking, taking pictures and sharing them, etc. I also think CF knows that the demographic spending the most money in the park remember the days long before CF, especially the Paramount years, where theming was a huge element of the experience...I have worked in marketing for over 15 years and it's all about pleasing your top spending segment, knowing the efforts will trickle down to the other segments and make them happy as well...creating a whole new generation of park enthusiasts and the cycle just repeats itself. 

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7 hours ago, LoadAndGo said:

I highly recommend a book by David Younger entitled "Theme Park Design & The Art Of Themed Entertainment" Younger explains how operations from small family fun centers to large Disney parks benefit from a purposeful and intentional design. He explains how theming and storytelling always pay off. Any true fan of this industry should read this book.

Where do you suggest finding this book? Looked at the library catalog and it's not even registered in the network......Amazon sells it for $50-70 which is out of my price range for a book. 

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^ I own the book. It's essentially a college textbook on the amusement industry (except, to my knowledge, no college uses it in class.) I don't think there are a huge number of copies since it's kind of a niche publication--kind of like the books ACE has published over the years. I hate to say it, but you actually might not be able to find it outside of Amazon.

That being said, I have to second LoadAndGo's review. It's a great book, if a bit dry sometimes. If you're seriously passionate about the amusement industry and have an opportunity to read through it, I can't recommend it enough.

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I feel for a park like KI (or most of the CF parks), the simpler the themeing, the better.  For instance, gravestones, lights, misters on signs, etc... are all relatively easy to maintain. A functioning rotor on a helicopter and working flames that sit outside 100% of the time, not so much.  For Mystic Timbers, they got the outside stuff right, in terms of the Que and the old truck, as well as the backstory.  The more complex stuff in the shed is all protected from the elements, meaning they can keep them operational for longer periods of time.  The less moving parts, the easier it is to maintain, expenses are more predictable.

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It's definitely a pricey book. Like @TombRaiderFTW said, it's essentially a textbook, and that's how I use it. I'm an Arts Management major, so I incorporate this book and theme parks in general whenever I can.

What I really like about it is how specifically it's broken down. If I want to do something with pathways, I just flip to that section. If I need some real world examples of successful queue designs, I just flip to that section. It's dry at some times, but it's very accessible.

2 minutes ago, medford said:

I feel for a park like KI (or most of the CF parks), the simpler the themeing, the better.  For instance, gravestones, lights, misters on signs, etc... are all relatively easy to maintain. A functioning rotor on a helicopter and working flames that sit outside 100% of the time, not so much.  For Mystic Timbers, they got the outside stuff right, in terms of the Que and the old truck, as well as the backstory.  The more complex stuff in the shed is all protected from the elements, meaning they can keep them operational for longer periods of time.  The less moving parts, the easier it is to maintain, expenses are more predictable.

I agree, there is absolutely a balance. Mystic's theming isn't perfect, but it's definitely a positive leap forward. I would absolutely love to see KI get more indoor attractions. Mainly an interactive shooter on Coney between Zephyr and the old Dinos entrance, and a Spinning Wild Mouse in the old Crypt building. Think Voyage to the Iron Reef and Exterminator, respectively.

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@LoadAndGo - does the book cover successful line operations and rider wait time reduction? One thing I always notice and admire about Disney is how they queue up riders for the next ride. Instead of the line operator leaning around on one of the posts waiting for the ride to finish, they could be asking the "how many" question and doing measurements as needed for riders waiting in line. On some rides Disney will even have people stand on a painted numbered spot on the ground, letting them know which car to go to, which eliminates the chaos. They also rope off the next group of riders, which I always liked. This would be such an easy change to make - just training and slight modification to the ride queue...

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13 minutes ago, KImom said:

@LoadAndGo - does the book cover successful line operations and rider wait time reduction? One thing I always notice and admire about Disney is how they queue up riders for the next ride. Instead of the line operator leaning around on one of the posts waiting for the ride to finish, they could be asking the "how many" question and doing measurements as needed for riders waiting in line. On some rides Disney will even have people stand on a painted numbered spot on the ground, letting them know which car to go to, which eliminates the chaos. They also rope off the next group of riders, which I always liked. This would be such an easy change to make - just training and slight modification to the ride queue...

A small section of the six page table of contents.

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3 hours ago, KImom said:

@LoadAndGo - does the book cover successful line operations and rider wait time reduction? One thing I always notice and admire about Disney is how they queue up riders for the next ride. Instead of the line operator leaning around on one of the posts waiting for the ride to finish, they could be asking the "how many" question and doing measurements as needed for riders waiting in line. On some rides Disney will even have people stand on a painted numbered spot on the ground, letting them know which car to go to, which eliminates the chaos. They also rope off the next group of riders, which I always liked. This would be such an easy change to make - just training and slight modification to the ride queue...

KI has tried things like this.  The problem is the guests have to follow it, which in KI's case they generally don't.

IJ:ST was one of the first rides that I can remember doing this at KI.

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26 minutes ago, teenageninja said:

KI has tried things like this.  The problem is the guests have to follow it, which in KI's case they generally don't.

IJ:ST was one of the first rides that I can remember doing this at KI.

There's a learning curve. You can't just do it at one or two attractions, you have to do it at all. Then the operations team needs to commit to enforcing the procedures. It's almost like you have to educate the public. You have to educate the public on park etiquette in a way.

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1 hour ago, LoadAndGo said:

There's a learning curve. You can't just do it at one or two attractions, you have to do it at all. Then the operations team needs to commit to enforcing the procedures. It's almost like you have to educate the public. You have to educate the public on park etiquette in a way.

They have those spots on the ground for Valravn and I think Drop Tower.  No one pays attention to them.  

33 minutes ago, Maverick44 said:

If anyone wants to see whats heading this way look at the CP webcams

Wrong direction.  The storm is moving NE.  :D

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"Enforcing" means ****ing guests off... sometimes it's best to just let them enjoy their romper room. KI also does not have crowds anywhere near Disney. The queues are kind of a none issue... Cedar Point would benefit much more from this discussion, if they aren't doing it there KI will not get it at all.

 

KI was also able to do this to an extent when it worked with themeing, TR;TR for example by dividing the line into the Antechamber (Door Room) and the Pre-Show (movie room). But it's just not needed at a seasonal park that has locals and few tourists.

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15 minutes ago, TheRickster said:

"Enforcing" means ****ing guests off... sometimes it's best to just let them enjoy their romper room. KI also does not have crowds anywhere near Disney. The queues are kind of a none issue... Cedar Point would benefit much more from this discussion, if they aren't doing it there KI will not get it at all.

 

If you believe the TEA numbers, Cedar Point and KI have similar attendance yearly. Neither of which, like you said, are even in the same ballpark as Disney. 

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On 1/12/2018 at 3:55 PM, fryoj said:

If you believe the TEA numbers, Cedar Point and KI have similar attendance yearly. Neither of which, like you said, are even in the same ballpark as Disney. 

CP just has longer lines on average. People will take days off work and travel there, and that makes up for the park not being in a metropolitan area. It especially brings attendance up on M-F. Even on a day that TTD was relative walk on like 10 mins... I've still had to wait 30-40 for Maverick. KI just has a better spread on the busy days that peak on the weekends, and even then the crowd is spread around the park rather well. This is something CP is trying hard to fix, since the crowds for a long time were pretty much all in line for TTD/MF/Maverick.

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I still haven't heard a whisper of a rumor one way or the other. 

I'm obviously really hoping that KI continues their relationship with Les Productions Haut-Vol to bring another new Cirque show to the KI Theater. However the past three years, I had heard about as legitimate rumors as you can get without an official announcement by now, usually by the end of Cirque for the year. This time, silence.

The only thing I know for sure is that the set for Origins was broken down and removed (a friend saved a couple small chunks for me), but it was expected that Origins would only have a two year run, just as Cirque Imagine did. Prior to its end I had assumed a new Haut-Vol production would replace it but I'm a little concerned not to have any verification.

If not Cirque, I hope it is something else interesting and up to that quality!

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I dont see anything coming ride wise other then maybe a restaurant. With the over haul of Mean Streak, and Mystic opening last year, KI might take a break from rides. I could be wrong. 

  21 hours ago, Magenta Lizard said:

I still haven't heard a whisper of a rumor one way or the other. 

I'm obviously really hoping that KI continues their relationship with Les Productions Haut-Vol to bring another new Cirque show to the KI Theater. However the past three years, I had heard about as legitimate rumors as you can get without an official announcement by now, usually by the end of Cirque for the year. This time, silence.

The only thing I know for sure is that the set for Origins was broken down and removed (a friend saved a couple small chunks for me), but it was expected that Origins would only have a two year run, just as Cirque Imagine did. Prior to its end I had assumed a new Haut-Vol production would replace it but I'm a little concerned not to have any verification.

If not Cirque, I hope it is something else interesting and up to that quality!

They need a new Cirque show. They have so many out there the park could do.

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Didn't want to start a new thread for this, but thought I'd post it here.  Love seeing things like this...

 

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