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I-Street Pictures Discussion

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Wow....just wow. 

The park could just stop doing updates all together during the off season. The could have never said a word about International Street being revamped...they could have just tore down Firehawk without a word/"last rides." 

 

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1 hour ago, Joshua said:

I feel like this debate is the amusement park equivalent to leaking spoilers for upcoming films. People send up drones, trespass onto stages, and/or have crew members snap photos of sets, costumes, and concept art. The arguments are the same. One side wants to know, must know, and claims to have the "right" to know what's going to happen in the latest Star Wars/Avengers movie, while the other side would rather save that experience for the way it's meant to be seen. 

Personally, I'm not here less for gossip on upcoming attractions and more for discussion on past and current ones, as well as my love for the park itself. 

I'm not advocating for anyone to do anything illegal. Nor do I feel I have the right to anything. I'm on the opposite side. I like construction. I like seeing the process and how things are done. The how's and why's that they do things is fascinating to me. I probably will never ride the antique autos, but I like looking at the pics to see how it's being built. I also like the decoding aspect to new projects. Trying to figure out what's going on before it's announced. It's like a big puzzle. I have no problem with those who want no info and to be surprised. I largely stay away from movie sites for movies I want to see for that reason. It's easy enough for those who want to be surprised to avoid the decoding and rumor threads. Seeing whats going on with international street by the .0000000001% of their customer base that reads this isn't going to ruin anything for the park, nor will it cost them one cent. Micromanaging a message board and threatening people(if thats really whats going on) can cost them money. 

35 minutes ago, chugh43 said:

Wow....just wow. 

The park could just stop doing updates all together during the off season. The could have never said a word about International Street being revamped...they could have just tore down Firehawk without a word/"last rides." 

 

They could, but that's the job of their marketing department. To inform the public and build excitement for projects that will translate to sales. Keeping things secret does not build excitement or create sales. 

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So why not let the marketing department do their job? I get the keeping things secret does not build excitement or create sales, but how can they build excitement and create sales when others try to do their job by leaking information earlier than necessary? 

I truly get both sides, especially wanting to know information myself, but why is it important to place the updates/secrets on KIC before the park divulges the information?  

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1 minute ago, chugh43 said:


I truly get both sides, especially wanting to know information myself, but why is it important do place the updates/secrets before the park divulges the information?  

I don’t necessarily think it’s important to know they’re doing to international street, I think most of the questioning is why would legally obtained Ariel photos not be allowed when blueprints from a new rollercoaster would be allowed. 

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3 minutes ago, chugh43 said:

So why not let the marketing department do their job? I get the keeping things secret does not build excitement or create sales, but how can they build excitement and create sales when others try to do their job by leaking information earlier than necessary? 

I truly get both sides, especially wanting to know information myself, but why is it important do place the updates/secrets before the park divulges the information?  

I think I summarized why pretty well in my post, but someone posting an aerial pic from 1000's of feet up or even a cell phone picture from ground level is not ruining anything for the park or the marketing department. Especially on a board where I'm betting 75%+ of the people reading already have season passes. Forcing people that don't work for the park to keep that info secret does not build excitement. On the other hand, it has certainly created some level of controversy amongst the parks biggest supporters. 

 

Just now, Ben43065 said:

I don’t necessarily think it’s important to know they’re doing to international street, I think most of the questioning is why would legally obtained Ariel photos not be allowed when blueprints from a new rollercoaster would be allowed. 

I think the writing is on the wall for that one. I think its being said without being directly said that those type of posts aren't going to be allowed going forward either. If they are being this restrictive about a refurb, how are they going to be when it comes to a $30+ million ride? Thats why I'm being so vocal about this now. I'm concerned about what the decoding 2020 thread is going to turn into. 

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Guys... I only asked to share a simple photo of an aerial shot of I-Street. I could still share it off site but it’s just really not that interesting. It is a top down view of what they are doing. You legit can only see concrete work. I understand that the photo itself isn’t the point. I am just respecting the wishes of KIC and Kings Island. The park opens in a little over a month, and they will probably share an update of I-street sometime this month. 

Be patient everybody! Opening day is right around the corner. 

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Here are some of the ground rules that a few seems to want.

  • If the park is closed to the public then the park requests that any aerial or other shots of the park come from them not any other source be it plane, drone, etc. 
  • Anything that is public record is fair game.
  • When the park is open and pictures are taken, that is fair game.

Why no pictures when the park is closed you say? The top of the list it is just being respectful. Also, with an incomplete construction area, it makes people jump to conclusions about an area that might looks totally different the next week. When the park feels the time is right we will get updates. 

 

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So in other words, this IS NOT truly an "independent" site.  As of now, if Kings Island says jump, you guys say "how high?"  That's NOT what the average person here wants.  The small bones the park throws to this site is not enough for the type of censorship we see here.  It's ridiculous.

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2 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

Here are some of the ground rules that a few seems to want.

  • If the park is closed to the public then the park requests that any aerial or other shots of the park come from them not any other source be it plane, drone, etc. 
  • Anything that is public record is fair game.
  • When the park is open and pictures are taken, that is fair game.

Why no pictures when the park is closed you say? The top of the list it is just being respectful. Also, with an incomplete construction area, it makes people jump to conclusions about an area that might looks totally different the next week. When the park feels the time is right we will get updates. 

 

What do you mean by public record? Legally obtained aerial photography is part of the public record. I guess a lot of us are confused how blue prints, trademark registrations, etc. are fair game, but an aerial photograph isn't. Especially when a lot of those public documents are leaked because someone took an illegal photo at the local government office.

If the policy is going to be more strict going forward, that's fine. Personally, I don't have confidence that everyone's resolve will hold when details of the 2020 coaster start leaking. I'll eat my words, but I don't believe that tread will be moderated as heavily as this thread.

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As @139Signal27 said, pictures from a plane could be considered "public record" , as anybody who can fly or knows a pilot can get pictures. 

And I said the same thing in a text to you @IndyGuy4KI that @LovinMeSomeBanshee brought up. If the park threw us more of a "bone", then I wouldn't see an issue. But it doesnt appear they give us very much as members.

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Well, this topic has derailed.  I won't add anything except to say that the moderators/administrators have every right to moderate as they see fit.  Reading and/or contributing to this site is not a free speech issue.  The original poster (who asked for the post to be removed if not ok) was perfectly in line, and the staff was fine to ask not to post those pictures.  Sometimes in life, there is grey instead of black and white.  I trust the folks at the park and who run this site.  I don't think I have seen this much drama on this site before, but I have only been around about 5 years.

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I don't think the park ever has to throw us a bone, they've done so as a courtesy. 

When you have had people in the past purposely trespassing at the park because of something they read on KIC, as we had with Banshee, the requests of the park are more than acceptable. 

KIC has been around for several years, folks have respected what the moderators have asked for years and there have been numerous inconsistencies (not calling out any current or former mods)....if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to keep logging into KIC. This is my 10th year on the site and I've never seen such disrespect for the moderators and admin team as people are treating them because they don't like the simple requests. Good grief.

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1 minute ago, chugh43 said:

I don't think the park ever has to throw us a bone, they've done so as a courtesy. 

When you have had people in the past purposely trespassing at the park because of something they read on KIC, as we had with Banshee, the requests of the park are more than acceptable. 

KIC has been around for several years, folks have respected what the moderators have asked for years and there have been numerous inconsistencies (not calling out any current or former mods)....if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to keep logging into KIC. This is my 10th year on the site and I've never seen such disrespect for the moderators and admin team as people are treating them because they don't like the simple requests. Good grief.

You're the one misconstruing a disdain for inconsistency and censorship as disrespect for the admins.  Don't put that on those of us that just want a fair application of the rules.  This site is either fully independent, or directly managed by the park.  There's no in-between.  

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1 minute ago, chugh43 said:

I've never seen such disrespect for the moderators and admin team as people are treating them because they don't like the simple requests.

I don't think anyone is being disrespectful. Most people are just asking for clarification and consistency going forward. Personally, I don't care if aerial photography is allowed or not. I just want to see consistency across projects and threads. If aerial photography is a no go, blueprints should also be a no go.

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45 minutes ago, LovinMeSomeBanshee said:

So in other words, this IS NOT truly an "independent" site.  As of now, if Kings Island says jump, you guys say "how high?"  That's NOT what the average person here wants.  The small bones the park throws to this site is not enough for the type of censorship we see here.  It's ridiculous.

Have to agree with this post, above. Speculation, decoding, and putting the "pieces of the puzzle" together is part of what has made this site great in the past. 

 

To say that moderation has been strange and questionable would be an understatement.

 

There is a true lack of transparency or consistency with the current moderation of this site. There are certain restrictions that I can understand, but there comes a point where the fun can be entirely drained out of things. And I hope that being "spoon-fed" by the park is not the reason that we must have the fun drained out of our conversations. I would suspect that in the coming year or so, if (when?) the park does decide to go big, many will turn to other outlets to discuss future plans, if restricted so heavily here. Although it had its issues, the "Decoding 2014" thread was a great place for everyone to discuss plans that had come out, share photographs that they took from the tower, and speculate on what would become Banshee. Under the current inconsistency and blatant non-transparency of things, I'm not sure that thread could exist now. 

Is this site ran by the "community", or is it a puppet of the park? 

Anyway, just wanted to add a bit. 

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3 minutes ago, LovinMeSomeBanshee said:

You're the one misconstruing a disdain for inconsistency and censorship as disrespect for the admins.  Don't put that on those of us that just want a fair application of the rules.  This site is either fully independent, or directly managed by the park.  There's no in-between.  

No....why don't you ask @Dane if he is independent from the site. There's such a thing of a working-relationship...KIC scratches KI's back, KI scratches KIC's back. It is disrespect, Brad, Matthew and Robbie have responded and clarified the situation and that's not good enough for some people so they continue to argue about it. That's disrespect.
 

----

It's as if people believe that they are owed this information, if the park doesn't give the information, they act is if they are entitled to get it themselves. 
 

When Tony Clark tweets to tell people that obtaining pictures of Steel Vengeance is a no no, no one bats an eye...KI asks for that and we get "THAT'S CENSORING BECAUSE THEY ASKED KIC MODS TO NOT ALLOW IT!"

 

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2 hours ago, fryoj said:

... but someone posting an aerial pic from 1000's of feet up or even a cell phone picture from ground level is not ruining anything for the park or the marketing department. Especially on a board where I'm betting 75%+ of the people reading already have season passes. Forcing people that don't work for the park to keep that info secret does not build . 

I respectfully disagree. I have been a season pass holder for almost 20 years. I have only been to opening day once, about 15 years ago...but I will be there this year. I can not wait to see The new/old International Street in person...so it is building excitement! :)

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15 minutes ago, chugh43 said:

No....why don't you ask @Dane if he is independent from the site. There's such a thing of a working-relationship...KIC scratches KI's back, KI scratches KIC's back. It is disrespect, Brad, Matthew and Robbie have responded and clarified the situation and that's not good enough for some people so they continue to argue about it. That's disrespect.
 

----

It's as if people believe that they are owed this information, if the park doesn't give the information, they act is if they are entitled to get it themselves. 
 

When Tony Clark tweets to tell people that obtaining pictures of Steel Vengeance is a no no, no one bats an eye...KI asks for that and we get "THAT'S CENSORING BECAUSE THEY ASKED KIC MODS TO NOT ALLOW IT!"

 

I don't think anyone feels we are "owed" this information.  We're not asking KI Central or Kings Island/Cedar Fair to provide any information whatsoever.  But if a private member decides he wants to legally take aerial photos and post it here, what's the harm?  

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4 hours ago, chugh43 said:

Wow....just wow. 

The park could just stop doing updates all together during the off season. The could have never said a word about International Street being revamped...they could have just tore down Firehawk without a word/"last rides." 

 

Then they wouldn’t be doing their jobs.

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I really do want to apologize for this. I didn't mean to cause any kind of tension between mods and users. With the park being closed, I think it is reasonable for Kings Island and KIC to ask that photos of construction not be shared. Even though the photos I have are legally obtained (and were actually paid for!), they wish for them to not be shared. I asked if it was okay before I even posted the photos and I was told it was *best* not to. The mods did not remove the photos as I never posted them.

Like I said before, we will see stuff very soon! Even if they don't share photos before opening day, the park opens in just a little over a month. Then the photos will be completely irrelevant except for before and after pics.

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3 minutes ago, LovinMeSomeBanshee said:

I don't think anyone feels we are "owed" this information.  We're not asking KI Central or Kings Island/Cedar Fair to provide any information whatsoever.  But if a private member decides he wants to legally take aerial photos and post it here, what's the harm?  

The harm is done when enthusiasts do the job of the park before the park can do it....what do they pay those people for then? 

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1 minute ago, chugh43 said:

The harm is done when enthusiasts do the job of the park before the park can do it....what do they pay those people for then? 

Then the park needs to adapt.  Technology has permitted the human race to see everything that happens on this planet at any time - instantly.  Kings Island does not own what a parcel of land looks like from above.  If Kings Island doesn't want drones buzzing about (legally) and doesn't want planes flying overhead taking aerial photography, then they can stifle it by distributing their own, OFFICIAL photography. But the days of building structures outdoors and somehow surprising customers on opening day are gone.  Kings Island needs to get with the times.

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I think the 'hiding' of information is more due to the park catering to their bigger demographic in the GP.  The GP aren't all that interested in the park during the off season.   Sure, the park does utilize social media, but that's part of the PR department's job in an era where the internet is a HUGE part of the way society functions.   Most news outlets don't cover anything about the park until within a month before the park opens (probably closer to a week or two before opening day).  There's really not that much demand this year since the park's additions and upgrades aren't on par with a year where they add a new coaster.  Like, really, is the rest of the tri-state area really clamoring for this information right now, especially right now during one of the biggest sports months for the area both with March Madness and Reds Opening Day (aka, Cincinnati's own holiday) coming up?

Also, how much money are you guys dumping into getting few pictures via airplane?   Is it really worth all that?  It seems like going extraordinarily out of your way just to say you're that guy who got the information first.

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1 minute ago, silver2005 said:

Also, how much money are you guys dumping into getting few pictures via airplane?   Is it really worth all that?  It seems like going extraordinarily out of your way just to say you're that guy who got the information first.

None. Paid for by the company that I work for that needs aerial images for utility work. 

1 minute ago, JAHill said:

Photos of new paint and fresh concrete are very, very exciting.

This is exactly what I’m getting at. You cannot even see anything, just some concrete work and foliage. You can’t even see the buildings. 

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Oh my word.  

Did you unwrap Christmas presents before Christmas day to see what was inside?  If your answer is yes and your parents found out about it- they should have returned the gifts.  Because it's intended for a surprise.  If the park wanted people to see behind the curtain, they'd post pictures.  if not- wait another 35-40'ish days.  

The original poster of the images asked, then didn't post the iStreet images.  The conversation should have ended there.  Zealots that can't wait a few weeks could be placing this site and its moderators at risk.  Though Kings Island doesn't "own" this site- the site doesn't exist without the park:  no Kings Island, no KIC.  If the park feels like members of this site are improperly taking liberties with with their "private" property and decide its more trouble than worth they could choose to file a lawsuit corresponding to what they feel has been violated.  Granted, I don't think it would be a case they could win- BUT it would cost "owners" of this site to lawyer up.  I'm not sure what the payday is for moderating this site, but I doubt it would be feasible to enlist in a legal battle.

Takeaway:  Just wait.  Go to work.  Go to school. Read a book.  Build your own anticipation of 75 degree days and walking through the park entrance in April.  You're not entitled to anything; and the second you think the park owes you (or members of this site) something- here's a hint: they don't. 

Think of someone other than yourself.  In other words, stay in your lane.

Baxter, Out.

 

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We live in the information age, as such KI (or any company) needs to realize there is only so much information they can control.  KI's secrets are significantly harder to control due to their nature (ie being big outdoor structures for the most part) than the average company.  The job of keeping their big projects (or sometimes even little projects) gets tougher each passing year.  As more and more information becomes readily available, and easily exchangeable they'll never be able to keep a "secret on things" the way they could when the park opened.

I appreciate, and respect KIC's relationship with KI; while they are not truly independent due to this nature, I feel it works far better for them in the long run to work in a relationship, than to work as a true independent.  However, there is 0 fundamental difference between sharing of any legally obtained document/photograph of any nature.  Obviously, illegally obtained information is a different animal, but if you allow the posting of one piece of legal information that is considered a clue, you should allow all forms.  Or none if that is the option.  Perhaps some discretion is to be held within reason as not all "clues" are created equal.  It was mentioned about blue prints, I can guarantee you that I'd could tell you a ton more if I had a full set of blue prints for project 2020 than I could with any set of Ariel photographs taken of the current site (assuming there is indeed a project 2020) either now, or at any point in the next 6 months, perhaps even longer.  Somebody didn't trespass at KI during Banshee's building because of KIC, they tresspassed because they are idiots and either ignored, or didn't care about the law.  The information posted at KIC during that time was often less scintillating than could be found elsewhere (though often more accurate due to sensible moderation)

KI needs to learn how to manage this type of information better.  They can attempt to "silence" KIC, but KIC is nothing more than a group of people exchanging opinions and ideas.  As a whole, the premise isn't all that different than facebook, twitter, other message boards, etc...  The nature of the work relationship between the 2 may force this information to leak out elsewhere, but eventually it will leak elsewhere.  KI's policy in this media age should be to open up the tap just enough to allow a slow dribble of information out at a time.  Enough to quench the curiosity of their most ardent fans, but not so much as to completely give it away.  Play a game, some real info, some fake info, let those that are interested try to decipher, while others will find out when they get there.  They owe us nothing, I would never argue otherwise, but they need to realize there are those that will always push the boundaries when it comes to obtaining information; give those interested just enough to satisfy their interest, and those looking to push the boundaries will be left with out voices.

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I would just say if you want to see these pics or if someone has pics to keep them private and only send them in direct messages and not posted on the boards. This keep people happy that do not want to see anything and others who do as well. I do not condone trespassing as well. I am not sure about the flights over the park as I am not sure if its legal or not?

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