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Decoding 2020

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1 hour ago, upstop said:
  •  Floorless giga? Who knows. I’ll be excited if the teasers start popping up soon.
  • Budget giga
  • Has no floors to save money
  • Riders have to pedal to get up the lift hill
  • only has seatbelts
  • no trims bc they’re too expensive - wicked airtime ensues
  • station is a giant tent

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I could speak on the cons for a second. Let it be known that we all agree after the great debate many pages ago that Kings Island is on the map! With that being said I came across this on reddit today on the Kings Island sub. I have no clue if this person considers themselves an enthusiast or just a gp member that usually goes to CP, and previously Geauga Lake. They expressed a so so opinion on the KI coaster lineup, and I worry that a coaster that is just at or under 300ft. will lead to more people not necessarily feeling underwhelmed at our lineup, but let down at what could be. 
 


Let’s be realistic here— besides us, the GP that is the 99% of KI on a daily basis isn’t going to know the difference or the stats on a new coaster or care for that matter. A new ride is a new ride and new experience to them. Something new will always draw the masses.

We are the 1%ers. Only we will know the specs, the enthusiasts feeling towards the ride overall, and what a limited few think of it. That’s it.

I don’t care what someone posts on Reddit comparing CP to KI. They will never be as a good as us. We don’t have to worry about them only installing a coaster every year to try to outpace another park. We actually get other decent rides and experiences. KI actually has a “feel” to it. Always have, always will.

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2 hours ago, thekidd33 said:

Never trust the opinion of anyone who enjoys Invertigo. 

He didn't like The Beast, his argument is invalid. :P 

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I like every park because of their uniqueness, not because of its rollercoaster selection. I’m hoping the new addition will bring overhaul to the x-base area. Perhaps a few new/used rides will pop up there. Btw. What if this is a first one of its kind rides? Floorless giga? Who knows. I’ll be excited if the teasers start popping up soon.
Floorless giga. While that would be cool, I feel that would be a cop out and kind of a slap in the face of that was their major selling point on this. " Your all's giga will be 1200' shorter but....... You all get floorless trains! oOoOO!"

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1 hour ago, fyrfyter said:

 


Let’s be realistic here— besides us, the GP that is the 99% of KI on a daily basis isn’t going to know the difference or the stats on a new coaster or care for that matter. A new ride is a new ride and new experience to them. Something new will always draw the masses.

We are the 1%ers. Only we will know the specs, the enthusiasts feeling towards the ride overall, and what a limited few think of it. That’s it.

I don’t care what someone posts on Reddit comparing CP to KI. They will never be as a good as us. We don’t have to worry about them only installing a coaster every year to try to outpace another park. We actually get other decent rides and experiences. KI actually has a “feel” to it. Always have, always will.

 

Cedar Point has something that KI will never have. And that's Lake Erie. 

 

I think it's tough to say KI is better than CP. They are just different. They each thrive in their own way. One is regional, one is a destination. Apples to oranges. 

 

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46 minutes ago, RuthlessAirtime said:
  • Budget giga
  • Has no floors to save money
  • Riders have to pedal to get up the lift hill
  • only has seatbelts
  • no trims bc they’re too expensive - wicked airtime ensues
  • station is a giant tent

And... kid you not, I rode the coaster on the Daytona boardwalk 1 month before it derailed and fell off the track hurting those people last year.. the maintenance was so obsolete, they had to physically push us to the chain lift...

 

It was at this point, pulling out my phone and calling a lawyer wasnt a bad thought before I go down the first drop.

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If I were in his place, I'd do the same thing. Better to have fun with the readers than to disperse the usual bland, monotone lawyer-speak ("We have nothing to announce at this time." Snooze.) 

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Question:

Based upon earlier posts, it seemed to assume that the lift hill would be a 45 Degree ascent.  Was the lift ascent on Fury and Leviathan?  If that is the case, why would B&M alter their ascent angle to make it shallower?  Neither Fury nor Leviathan has had problems with their left ascent that I'm aware of.  It would seem if the goal was to reach a certain height, the quicker they reach that height, the cheaper it would be as the lift wouldn't be as stretched out, chain would be shorter, etc.. (though perhaps more wear on the motor?)

anyhoo, if the scale on the front drawing is indeed incorrect, or at least doesn't match what is posted in the coordinates on the footings as some have said, how are we sure we can trust that detail that shows the lift ascent angle?  Is it possible that the leaked plans are an "early approved set" that is then followed up by an "engineering change" marked set of plans that the public has not seen?  To what extent would KI & Cedar Fair go to "throw us off".  Somewhere there is a set of drawings that contain the rest of the footings on this ride, perhaps we are only seeing what "they want us to see".

Just a random thought when thinking of that detail and how everyone assumed early on the lift would have a 45 degree ascent.

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4 hours ago, upstop said:

.I’m hoping the new addition will bring overhaul to the x-base area. 

It would be neat if they completely themed this area and added some flat rides and whatever big coaster that may be coming in the future. It would be cool if they made it an interactive experience, maybe like Knott’s Ghost Town Alive but somehow make it work with aliens or Government scientist. Just a thought. 

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I have to admit,  I was really hoping for a coaster that topped off around 350'.  But, I won't be so disappointed if it is just barely 300'. It will still be a giga nonetheless and I'm sure a very fun ride to experience!  Like many others on here, I think it would be a huge disservice not only to the KI regulars but to Kings Island itself to build a second hyper coaster that is only 15-25 feet from being named a giga.  I feel like that is likely not going to happen......but certainly a thought in the back of our minds here on KIC!  

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In the Reader's Mailbag post referenced above some hints may be gleaned, or not.  Also in a blog about The Beast last month, I found it interesting that the original plan for the roller coaster that became The Beast was to rebuild the Coney Island Shooting Star beside (or maybe behind) The Racer.  Things that make me go hmmm...

 

https://www.visitkingsisland.com/blog/2019/april/the-beast-40-years-of-terror

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29 minutes ago, medford said:

Question:

Based upon earlier posts, it seemed to assume that the lift hill would be a 45 Degree ascent.  Was the lift ascent on Fury and Leviathan?  If that is the case, why would B&M alter their ascent angle to make it shallower?  Neither Fury nor Leviathan has had problems with their left ascent that I'm aware of.  It would seem if the goal was to reach a certain height, the quicker they reach that height, the cheaper it would be as the lift wouldn't be as stretched out, chain would be shorter, etc.. (though perhaps more wear on the motor?)

anyhoo, if the scale on the front drawing is indeed incorrect, or at least doesn't match what is posted in the coordinates on the footings as some have said, how are we sure we can trust that detail that shows the lift ascent angle?  Is it possible that the leaked plans are an "early approved set" that is then followed up by an "engineering change" marked set of plans that the public has not seen?  To what extent would KI & Cedar Fair go to "throw us off".  Somewhere there is a set of drawings that contain the rest of the footings on this ride, perhaps we are only seeing what "they want us to see".

Just a random thought when thinking of that detail and how everyone assumed early on the lift would have a 45 degree ascent.

I think 45° was hoped for early on, but we know now it's 40° based on the footings blueprint. That blueprint for that particular view is very specific, good enough for the footings guys to use it to make that specific footing. A 45° lift would put more wear on the motor and its components and require more power to pull the train up versus the same design but at 40° --you're right about that. 

 

As for "throwing us off", the city is not interested in "playing games" with stuff like this, so any plans submitted to the city are going to be legit. The leaked layout still may be up in the air if it's true or not, but the footings blueprints for the lift are accurate. 

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But why was it hoped for 45 degrees?  I always assumed that is the angle on Fury and Leviathan, but haven't seen anything to confirm that.  My only point is why would the lift angle be less than fury or leviathan?

 

As far as playing games; its not that tough, if they are inclined.  Submit a set of plans to get approved, then immediately submit a set of "engineered changes" to the same documents.  There is a fee involved, but resubmitting plans is a normal process in construction; if KI wanted to, they could, would the city go along while still not bending any rules????  No clue, but mainly I was interested in that lift angle and how people got to 45 degrees.  If Leviathan and Fury were both 40 degrees, then I'd expect this one to be at least that as well, while perhaps hoping for something steeper.

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3 minutes ago, medford said:

But why was it hoped for 45 degrees?  I always assumed that is the angle on Fury and Leviathan, but haven't seen anything to confirm that.  My only point is why would the lift angle be less than fury or leviathan?

 

As far as playing games; its not that tough, if they are inclined.  Submit a set of plans to get approved, then immediately submit a set of "engineered changes" to the same documents.  There is a fee involved, but resubmitting plans is a normal process in construction; if KI wanted to, they could, would the city go along while still not bending any rules????  No clue, but mainly I was interested in that lift angle and how people got to 45 degrees.  If Leviathan and Fury were both 40 degrees, then I'd expect this one to be at least that as well, while perhaps hoping for something steeper.

Because when people started plotting the points for the footings, they noticed that it would take a steeper lift hill to get to the numbers they had in their heads.  

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18 minutes ago, medford said:

But why was it hoped for 45 degrees?  I always assumed that is the angle on Fury and Leviathan, but haven't seen anything to confirm that.  My only point is why would the lift angle be less than fury or leviathan?

 

As far as playing games; its not that tough, if they are inclined.  Submit a set of plans to get approved, then immediately submit a set of "engineered changes" to the same documents.  There is a fee involved, but resubmitting plans is a normal process in construction; if KI wanted to, they could, would the city go along while still not bending any rules????  No clue, but mainly I was interested in that lift angle and how people got to 45 degrees.  If Leviathan and Fury were both 40 degrees, then I'd expect this one to be at least that as well, while perhaps hoping for something steeper.

I haven't studied Levi at all, but dropping in side images of Fury's lift into my CAD makes me think Fury's lift is at 39°. It's very possible the images I used aren't the best and Fury's lift could indeed be 40°. 

Going off the submitted blueprints for KI's coaster, that lifthill is definitely at 40°, no question about it. 

 

Resubmitted plans do happen, but for legit changes or mistakes in the plans, not simply to troll a very select, very small community of coaster nerds. All it would take is word getting to the wrong person, and the city could shut these plans down or delay them easily just because KI is wanting to play some internet troll games. Big risk for doing something silly. 

 

 

EDIT--dropping in an image showing Fury's lift compared to 40°. The grey line (near red arrow) is sketched at 40°. Dropping in a perpendicular image of Fury's lift on top shows the lift isn't quite parallel to 40°. If a sketch a line at 39°, it falls on top of the image. Of course, this image of Fury is not perfect, so this analysis could be off, but it's the best I have to work with. 

 

7FC194FB-9EED-48EE-B04B-BA9880D94190.jpeg

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3 hours ago, shizzzon said:

And... kid you not, I rode the coaster on the Daytona boardwalk 1 month before it derailed and fell off the track hurting those people last year.. the maintenance was so obsolete, they had to physically push us to the chain lift...

 

It was at this point, pulling out my phone and calling a lawyer wasnt a bad thought before I go down the first drop.

I was in daytona right by the boardwalk when that happened. My mom called and thought I was on it lol

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I like every park because of their uniqueness, not because of its rollercoaster selection. I’m hoping the new addition will bring overhaul to the x-base area. Perhaps a few new/used rides will pop up there. Btw. What if this is a first one of its kind rides? Floorless giga? Who knows. I’ll be excited if the teasers start popping up soon.
A floorless GIGA sounds awesome, what a crazy feeling that would be and the view would be so open!

Sent from my KFSUWI using Tapatalk

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thanks bsbmx, seems like people were talking about a 45 degree lift almost immediately, before heights were even calculated, but perhaps I'm just remember wrong.

I'm on the side of believing the submitted footing plans, but part of me thinks that if I was Cedar Fair, I'd try my darnedest to troll people trying to figure things out early.  I'd want everyone to think one thing is for certain, then make them start questioning themselves each step of the way.  I'd be all about playing games with their minds wherever possible :)

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10 minutes ago, AnotherCoasterNerd said:

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Wanted to chime in and say Fury does have a 40 degree lift hill. But so does GateKeeper...so unfortunately that factoid doesn't seem to help a whole lot.

I'm not questioning you, but is there any definitive proof similar to what we have here in KI's case (with the blueprints). 

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1 minute ago, BSBMX said:

I'm not questioning you, but is there any definitive proof similar to what we have here in KI's case (with the blueprints). 

I mean, I don't have blueprints lol...but someone here was replicating Fury on their PC and mentioned trying to get the lift hill to 40 degrees, so I assumed he wasn't lying: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/carowinds-fury-325-recreation.494362/

 

GateKeeper's lift hill angle is mentioned here under Ride Experience: https://coasterpedia.net/wiki/GateKeeper

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4 hours ago, RuthlessAirtime said:
  • Budget giga
  • Has no floors to save money
  • Riders have to pedal to get up the lift hill
  • only has seatbelts
  • no trims bc they’re too expensive - wicked airtime ensues
  • station is a giant tent

That's some cost effective construction right there:lol:

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