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Decoding 2020

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I thought there were other differences between Firehawk and Nighthawk like the seat lifting mechanism.  I could be wrong.  Unfortunately, the site where I was told that got rid of their forums and is all but dead now and I don't have the patience to go through the internet to find photos of that mechanism on both. 

In any case, if Firehawk has bit the dust already, I expect the other 2 to follow suit shortly. 

Finally, Flying Dutchman are already finicky enough when using their original trains.  Putting a new set of trains on one of them would be a disaster in terms of downtime.  

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1 hour ago, silver2005 said:

I thought there were other differences between Firehawk and Nighthawk like the seat lifting mechanism.  I could be wrong.  Unfortunately, the site where I was told that got rid of their forums and is all but dead now and I don't have the patience to go through the internet to find photos of that mechanism on both. 

In any case, if Firehawk has bit the dust already, I expect the other 2 to follow suit shortly. 

Finally, Flying Dutchman are already finicky enough when using their original trains.  Putting a new set of trains on one of them would be a disaster in terms of downtime.  

I’m not sure you could just drop the train onto Nighthawk. In fact, I’d bet you couldn’t. However I’m sure there are certainly enough similarities for the trains to be parts donors. 

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5 hours ago, MDMC01 said:

I actually like Orange on a coaster, not sure why... Great orange coasters include The Bat, Valravn and Rougarou. Also Fahrenheit and Talon.

That being said, that blue looks awesome. If I got to pick the support color, I’d probably go with white or black, just because I can’t think of any other color that work well with that blue track.

The problem with Orange is that it fades really easily and looks terrible if the park doesn't keep up with it (e.g. Tatsu, Georgia Scorcher, Goliath SFOG).

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1 hour ago, silver2005 said:

I thought there were other differences between Firehawk and Nighthawk like the seat lifting mechanism.  I could be wrong.  Unfortunately, the site where I was told that got rid of their forums and is all but dead now and I don't have the patience to go through the internet to find photos of that mechanism on both. 

In any case, if Firehawk has bit the dust already, I expect the other 2 to follow suit shortly. 

Finally, Flying Dutchman are already finicky enough when using their original trains.  Putting a new set of trains on one of them would be a disaster in terms of downtime.  

In watching videos of all three Flying Dutchman’s in their 5 different locations, here’s what I noticed about the seat lifting mechanisms. Stealth used an off train hydraulic system which I’m assuming is the same as Firehawk’s. Nighthawk also uses an off train hydraulic system. X-Flight used on train lift motors on each seat. Batwing continues to use this system. When X-Flight was moved to KI, the on train system was removed and the off train hydraulic system was installed. I believe the motors from X-Flight were sold to Six Flags. If the Firehawk trains could be modified to accommodate a different lifting mechanism, one would think they could be converted back to their original configuration. There’s no reason to ship the entire train across the country. But by storing the trains at KI, CF has the potential to make money by selling parts to Six Flags or save money by shipping parts to Carowinds should the need arise. I do think eventually KI will decide that the location next to the new ride is not ideal and they’ll be moved elsewhere in the park. Nighthawk and Batwing are major coasters at their parks. I wouldn’t be surprised if they stuck around for a lot longer.

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Great info, befat! What is the difference between onboard hydraulics and off train hydraulics? I just watched a video of Stealth and it looks like it had a similar system to Firehawk (I’m not sure how to spot the differences between the two systems).

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4 hours ago, befat said:

In watching videos of all three Flying Dutchman’s in their 5 different locations, here’s what I noticed about the seat lifting mechanisms. Stealth used an off train hydraulic system which I’m assuming is the same as Firehawk’s. Nighthawk also uses an off train hydraulic system. X-Flight used on train lift motors on each seat. Batwing continues to use this system. When X-Flight was moved to KI, the on train system was removed and the off train hydraulic system was installed. I believe the motors from X-Flight were sold to Six Flags. If the Firehawk trains could be modified to accommodate a different lifting mechanism, one would think they could be converted back to their original configuration. There’s no reason to ship the entire train across the country. But by storing the trains at KI, CF has the potential to make money by selling parts to Six Flags or save money by shipping parts to Carowinds should the need arise. I do think eventually KI will decide that the location next to the new ride is not ideal and they’ll be moved elsewhere in the park. Nighthawk and Batwing are major coasters at their parks. I wouldn’t be surprised if they stuck around for a lot longer.

I would guess they will move them inside Flight of Fear at some point. 

Ps. I would like to buy a car from the park if they Re going to trash em. Make a cool patio bench. :) 

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6 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Both were completely rewired and modernized when they were moved. Not sure if that would make them compatible or not, but it’s worth consideration. 

I have it confirmed by Mike Koontz that Firehawk’s trains are incompatible with Nighthawk.

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My source was a bit more interesting.  The other site I used to be apart of had a bunch of European and English members before it spiraled down to nothingness, and one of those members took a tour of the Vekoma facilities in the Netherlands, and at the time, Firehawk was just announced for Kings Island and we were going over how if Nighthawk's trains and parts would work on Firehawk because we all thought Nighthawk wouldn't last at Carowinds very long and he confirmed the compatibility issue. 

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4 minutes ago, upstop said:

Seems like an awfully big building just to temporarily store the Grand Carnivale floats. Grand Carnivale is over on July 7th..... then what would it be used for?

It looked a lot smaller from the Eiffel Tower. Seeing those people in it, it definitely looks big enough for a Haunt attraction. Who knows.

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Kings Dominion in Doswell, Virginia and Kings Island in Mason, Ohio – June 15-July 7;

Worlds of Fun in Kansas City, Missouri – July 13-August 4; and

Dorney Park in Allentown, Pennsylvania – July 20-August 11.

I’m guessing that they will be sharing the parade between parks. KD with Dorney and KI with WOF. That’s only four parks in the chain, maybe next year there will be more parks online for the parade or even different parades.

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41 minutes ago, upstop said:

Seems like an awfully big building just to temporarily store the Grand Carnivale floats. Grand Carnivale is over on July 7th..... then what would it be used for?

They have the same structure supports sitting behind Twisted Timbers at KD for the exact same kind of building.

A5D62254-5F8F-4E3A-AF9C-AB85701B6B33.jpeg

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20 minutes ago, upstop said:

Kings Dominion in Doswell, Virginia and Kings Island in Mason, Ohio – June 15-July 7;

Worlds of Fun in Kansas City, Missouri – July 13-August 4; and

Dorney Park in Allentown, Pennsylvania – July 20-August 11.

I’m guessing that they will be sharing the parade between parks. KD with Dorney and KI with WOF. That’s only four parks in the chain, maybe next year there will be more parks online for the parade or even different parades.

It's also possible that after they are done at WOF and DP, they ship them back to KI and KD and store them there all Winter. 

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8 hours ago, MDMC01 said:

Great info, befat! What is the difference between onboard hydraulics and off train hydraulics? I just watched a video of Stealth and it looks like it had a similar system to Firehawk (I’m not sure how to spot the differences between the two systems).

For Stealth/Nighthawk and Firehawk, there is/was a giant hydraulic powered structure under the station that lifts the train.  For every row, there are 2 little wheels that ride along 2 metal C shaped bars which raise the train (circled in red).  These metal bars are all attached to one big structure under the station.

For X-Flight and Batwing, the mechanism that raises the train was/is a motor attached to the chassis of the train for each row.  I've never seen this mechanism/motor in action but I'm guessing it is hydraulic powered.

Photo credit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO9aX70VK-o

Edit:

Check out the screen grab below from a video of X-Flight to see the difference in the systems.  Credit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRfvCMv8P6A

 

Capture.JPG

 

 

 

Capture.JPG

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1 hour ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

I do not know what the park intends to store in there, or how long. I just know it is going to be used for storage. 

I feel like if it were for Grand Carnivale it would have been set up earlier. Also has anyone asked the park? I think they wouldn't keep it a secret if the building was built for the event.

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5 hours ago, befat said:

For Stealth/Nighthawk and Firehawk, there is/was a giant hydraulic powered structure under the station that lifts the train.  For every row, there are 2 little wheels that ride along 2 metal C shaped bars which raise the train (circled in red).  These metal bars are all attached to one big structure under the station.

For X-Flight and Batwing, the mechanism that raises the train was/is a motor attached to the chassis of the train for each row.  I've never seen this mechanism/motor in action but I'm guessing it is hydraulic powered.

Photo credit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO9aX70VK-o

Edit:

Check out the screen grab below from a video of X-Flight to see the difference in the systems.  Credit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRfvCMv8P6A

 

Capture.JPG

 

 

 

Capture.JPG

Thanks for that info/explanation; I personally find it very fascinating! I just watched that X-Flight video and was amazed that there was no bar to lift the trains up (like Firehawk had)! 

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6 hours ago, Shawn Meyer said:

Just curious did they just rip up the old Dinosaurs Alive paths? It kind of looks that way from the recent pictures posted on this page.

I can't say for the entire path as the images do not show it, but there's still at least a lot of path left that will be directly below the coaster (drop, helix area). The yellow areas I circled below roughly match the same paths on the blueprints. Also, per the blueprint, it looks like the new air compressor building for the trim brake will be built right along the existing path for easy access (red circle below). Removing these concrete slabs would have just cost more money, and they may still have plans for them in the future, even if they're just for maintenance reasons. 

 

 

FA724388-9A23-42DC-9654-2DE425F0DD35.jpeg

B1B13DF9-8944-44B4-B4E5-0CF050148885.jpeg

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