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Decoding 2020

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Doesn't Kings Island have more land available without removing an attraction than Carowinds? I recall, and have seen from the air, that Kings Island has only used roughly 1/2 of the land available. I understand the terrain in the area is rough though. 

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This may clear things up a bit...
Vitality of market, and viable marketability of product has EVERYTHING to do with decisions on capitol expenditures.
Pops.jpg.5745d4aaeb350097920ec6afb5148138.jpg

The Cincinnati Metropolitan area has over 2,000,000 in population. Plus we draw from Columbus, Dayton, and Indianapolis.
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Just now, teenageninja said:

I'm going to argue a bit with these numbers.  The greater Cincinnati area, including Dayton, NKY, etc is far larger than 301k.

Those are pulled via city - not metro area.  They increase largely if you look at area vs city population... but overall, the ratio stands.

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1 minute ago, ohiocoasterfan said:


The Cincinnati Metropolitan area has over 2,000,000 in population. Plus we draw from Columbus, Dayton, and Indianapolis.

Add Lexington and Louisville to the mix.  Kentucky Kingdom is irrelevant.

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1 minute ago, Shaggy said:

This may clear things up a bit...

Vitality of market, and viable marketability of product has EVERYTHING to do with decisions on capitol expenditures.

Pops.jpg

I agree with your reasoning, but this really doesn't give the full picture. MSA is a better measure of population, and in addition to that, neither Carowinds nor Canada's Wonderland have any major competitors nearby (within 150 miles). 

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3 minutes ago, sixohdieselrage said:

Doesn't Kings Island have more land available without removing an attraction than Carowinds? I recall, and have seen from the air, that Kings Island has only used roughly 1/2 of the land available. I understand the terrain in the area is rough though. 

Yes, Kings Island is about 730 Acres. As you mention the land does get rough but to be quite honest this giga coaster blocks a lot of potential room to expand in my option. X-Base is once again pinned in (Which was the problem to begin with). 

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25 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Disappointment 285

The first drop is guaranteed to let you down every time!

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My God everyone here gets so obsessed with debating minutia...  add in this, add in that...  wah wah wah.... KI should get the biggest coaster in the world... this sucks yada yada yada...

Its pretty apparent they are getting a sizable capitol expenditure... re-read what I said and really listen to what I AM and AM NOT saying...

"Vitality of market, and viable marketability of product has EVERYTHING to do with decisions on capitol expenditures."

 

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3 minutes ago, sixohdieselrage said:

Agreed. We are well over Toronto's MSA. KI pulls from a huge area. 

Toronto's MSA consists of 6,417,516 people.

Cincinatti's is 2,114,580 in comparison.

And to reiterate: Canada's Wonderland does not have any major competitors within 150 miles (excluding Darien Lake).

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2 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

My God everyone here gets so obsessed with debating minutia...  add in this, add in that... wah wah wah... KI should get the biggest coaster in the world... this sucks yada yada yada...

Its pretty apparent they are getting a sizable capitol expenditure... re-read what I said and really listen to what I AM and AM NOT saying...

"Vitality of market, and viable marketability of product has EVERYTHING to do with decisions on capitol expenditures."

 

This new coaster is going to be called Everything sponsored by Einstein Bros. Bagels.

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@ethancoaster Remember, I am talking about pulling from Columbus, as well as Lexington, Louisville, Indianapolis, and some other minor cities that would NOT be included in the Cincinnati MSA. 

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13 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

This may clear things up a bit...

Vitality of market, and viable marketability of product has EVERYTHING to do with decisions on capitol expenditures.

Pops.jpg

That only includes the population of the actual city of Cincy, not other surrounding towns, etc. Also, KI is only about 1-2 hrs from 5 other major cities. I doubt Toronto and Charlotte have that many other cities in that close proximity as KI.

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46 minutes ago, DustinTheNow said:

After careful inspection and measuring the footer locations, namely the main spine footing locations for the lift spine, along with an understanding of B&M’s drop shape, I have some semi-bad news. The Coaster looks to be (only) about 285 ft. I am assuming based on placement of the drop into a “valley” that the drop will exceed 300 ft. This will be a Giga in the same way Apollo’s Chariot is a Hyper. Take it or leave it. 3E62165D-83F5-4CEE-80E0-C23D18690658.jpeg

Imagine cheaping out on having a good ride so your 1/3 scale faded Eiffel Tower can remain the most prominent part of your skyline.

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19 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

This may clear things up a bit...

Vitality of market, and viable marketability of product has EVERYTHING to do with decisions on capitol expenditures.

Pops.jpg

The population in the city limits doesn’t tell nearly the whole story.

Kings Island draws a lot of people from Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, Dayton, Indianapolis, Louisville, and Lexington.

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Toronto is significantly larger than Cincinnati, I won't debate that.  Charlotte is probably similarly sized if you spread out the market.  Using Cincinnati and Charlotte's actual population probably isn't a great marker when both parks are not located in the city proper.

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Does anyone here read?  About 25 people have posted the same thing about the population I used as a "reference point" ... but I'll say it again...

Pay attention to what I SAID not what I posted.

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27 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

Those are pulled via city - not metro area.  They increase largely if you look at area vs city population... but overall, the ratio stands.

I'm going to have to disagree with the ratio. 

Per Metropolitan Statistical Areas in 2015:

Cincinnati: 2,157,719 (39th in North America)
Charlotte: 2,426,363 (32nd in North America)
Cincinnati when you combine it with Dayton/Middletown (which KI pulls pass holders and employees from): 2,956,951 (jumps it to 25th in North America)
Toronto: 6,116,725 (7th in North America) 

There are other factors as well: access to transportation, distance to nearby population centers, demographics, disposable income, economic outlook, etc. 

I think what's become clear are two things: 
1) For years, Kings Island was Paramount Park's big draw. It has a loyal season pass base, excellent regional location throughout the Midwest, etc. That was even evident during the OG TAFT/KECO years when the place was designed/marketed as a total resort destination (like many parks of the time, then regional parks became what they are today). 
2) Under Paramount, Canada's Wonderland and Carowinds were successful parks, but clearly PP hadn't realized their full potential. Carowinds also benefits from the fact that Charlotte is growing at an immense pace and Toronto is a major, international city. Wonderland is finally taking advantage of the audience they can pull from in their market. 

I think what we're seeing here (in terms of disappointment) is that KI isn't the "golden goose" so to speak anymore. The powers-that-be are going to chose installations and expenditures that make sense. Ultimately, no group or demographic with true buying power cares whether or not this new attraction breaks any of the chain's records or competes with similar rides in the chain

It'll be a big, new ride that will excite the season pass base, draw people from the region, and get people to come spend money. 

I get it, though, enthusiasts want to see something big and spectacular. And that's ok. It's just not the determining factor when it comes to park investments. 

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2 minutes ago, Nick_Plummer said:

Imagine cheaping out on having a good ride so your 1/3 scale faded Eiffel Tower can remain the most prominent part of your skyline.

Imagine basing your opinion of a ride on a leaked layout and a drawing lol

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Plot twist. It’s a kids ride and Planet Snoopy is moving to the back of the park.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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8 minutes ago, scoriell said:

Imagine basing your opinion of a ride on a leaked layout and a drawing lol

If this ride makes it in the top 10 steel coasters at the Golden Ticket Awards next year I will print out this page and eat my words. 

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I think another thing we've got to keep in mind is that Kings Island is more of a locals/family park and not a destination park. The park tends to cater more to the families rather than the thrill seekers. Imo, I think imo that the reason that they are probably going smaller/cheaper on a giga rather than going insanely huge is that it'll be easier to achieve the minimum return on investment goal. 

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5 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:


It'll be a big, new ride that will excite the season pass base, draw people from the region, and get people to come spend money. 
 

... who's overall cost is based on what its marketability and profitability will be over a determined period of time.

(Thanks Gordon Bombay)

  

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1 minute ago, Shaggy said:

... who's overall cost is based on what its marketability and profitability will be over a determined period of time.

(Thanks Gordon Bombay)

  

Anything for you. Love your FB page. 

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Wow! This thread has really taken on a life of it's own. Do I think we will see a giga in that spot...sure. Will I be happy? You bet! Do I care if it breaks any existing records? Not at all. KI has broke records before...some great installations, some not so good (I'm looking at you Son of Beast).  Funny thing is, I remember people on here (and all over) not being happy when Mystic Timbers was leaked/announced. And guess what? It's not the tallest, fastest, longest anything. But, it's a fantastic ride all the way through. A great addition to the world class coasters we are lucky enough to have at our home park. I can and have ridden MT all day and evening...cause it's fun and a great ride! And, if Banshee were just a bit taller to break a height record...what difference does it really make? It's perfect the way it is.

I'll be happy with anything over 300' in that cleared spot, if that's indeed what's to come there. And if it's not, then guess what, I'm going to be thrilled that Cedar Fair loves KI enough to put in another great coaster when they could have just skipped over us. I guess I come from a different time and era, where we waited till things were announced and then enjoyed the hell out of whatever it was...it's supposed to be fun, right?

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I'm surprised by the glum reaction to a coaster that'll most likely have a 300-foot-drop. Let's wait and see what else it'll do---and with that in mind does an extra 25-30 feet of drop make so much of a difference in how enjoyable a coaster it will end up being? Family-fun-park Giga = 310 feet versus mega-enthusiast-Giga = 326? Seems a bit of a stretch to me.

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To be honest, I’m just happy to see Cedar Fair do another investment in the park. I don’t know about you guys, but I can’t wait for announcement day.

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2 minutes ago, Imaniixo said:

To be honest, I’m just happy to see Cedar Fair invest in the park. I don’t know about you guys, but I can’t wait for announcement day.

To be fair (and I'm no fan of that company), they've been investing in it since they took over. From all indications, this will be a big investment, but as the other threads have pointed out—it's not always about that. Sometimes simple things make the most difference. Credit where it's due, CF has poured money into KI in various areas (except food service apparently ;-) ). 

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Just now, Gordon Bombay said:

To be fair (and I'm no fan of that company), they've been investing in it since they took over. From all indications, this will be a big investment, but as the other threads have pointed out—it's not always about that. Sometimes simple things make the most difference. Credit where it's due, CF has poured money into KI in various areas (except food service lol, gtfo with that nonsense). 

Never said they haven’t invested in it, I just said that I’m happy to see it..

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