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Vortex Is Leaving After This Fall Season

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8 minutes ago, KIghostguy said:

That makes no sense to have an company that has only done constructions demolish a coaster. Who/what is his source?

For an enthusiast perhaps not, from a business perspective, it is completely practical.

Any contractor cannot be shoe-horned into a single aspect of construction.  There just is not enough business to support it.

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25 minutes ago, Browntggrr said:

For an enthusiast perhaps not, from a business perspective, it is completely practical.

Any contractor cannot be shoe-horned into a single aspect of construction.  There just is not enough business to support it.

But companies that only design coasters have enough business to support staying in business...

Some companies will only do demolition as some will only do new construction....

Look up O'Rourke- all they do is demolition - "demolition specialists since 1962" is their slogan...

I guess we will know soon enough if you are correct...

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44 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

But companies that only design coasters have enough business to support staying in business...

Some companies will only do demolition as some will only do new construction....

Look up O'Rourke- all they do is demolition - "demolition specialists since 1962" is their slogan...

I guess we will know soon enough if you are correct...

O'Rourke isn't just demolition as seen on their web page:

STRUCTURAL DEMOLITION
SELECTIVE DEMOLITION
INTERIOR DEMOLITION
IMPLOSION
DECONSTRUCTION / DISMANTLEMENT
INVESTMENT RECOVERY / DECOMMISSIONING
HISTORICAL PRESERVATION / SALVAGE
ENVIRONNMENTAL SERVICES
WASTE MANAGEMENT / RECYCLING / LEED
EXCAVATION / SITE WORK
CONCRETE CRUSHING
OTHER SITE SERVICES
EMERGENCY RESPONSE

Given the number of projects they support, they are able to continue a viable business.

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5 minutes ago, Browntggrr said:

O'Rourke isn't just demolition as seen on their web page:

STRUCTURAL DEMOLITION
SELECTIVE DEMOLITION
INTERIOR DEMOLITION
IMPLOSION
DECONSTRUCTION / DISMANTLEMENT
INVESTMENT RECOVERY / DECOMMISSIONING
HISTORICAL PRESERVATION / SALVAGE
ENVIRONNMENTAL SERVICES
WASTE MANAGEMENT / RECYCLING / LEED
EXCAVATION / SITE WORK
CONCRETE CRUSHING
OTHER SITE SERVICES
EMERGENCY RESPONSE

Given the number of projects they support, they are able to continue a viable business.

O'Rourke is not constructing Orion, though. SkyHigh Coasters is doing that. It's very apparent from their website that SkyHigh only does new construction, so they are probably not demolishing Vortex. I'll eat my words if it turns out SkyHigh is doing the demolition, but given Kings Island's history with working with O'Rourke for demolition and the fact there is no reliable source behind the claim, I find it highly unlikely. 

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19 minutes ago, KIghostguy said:

O'Rourke is not constructing Orion, though. SkyHigh Coasters is doing that. It's very apparent from their website that SkyHigh only does new construction, so they are probably not demolishing Vortex. I'll eat my words if it turns out SkyHigh is doing the demolition, but given Kings Island's history with working with O'Rourke for demolition and the fact there is no reliable source behind the claim, I find it highly unlikely.

You are correct.

Take a look at the SkyHigh page under projects, they have done deconstruction on King Chaos at SFGA.

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20 minutes ago, Browntggrr said:

O'Rourke isn't just demolition as seen on their web page:

STRUCTURAL DEMOLITION
SELECTIVE DEMOLITION
INTERIOR DEMOLITION
IMPLOSION
DECONSTRUCTION / DISMANTLEMENT
INVESTMENT RECOVERY / DECOMMISSIONING
HISTORICAL PRESERVATION / SALVAGE
ENVIRONNMENTAL SERVICES
WASTE MANAGEMENT / RECYCLING / LEED
EXCAVATION / SITE WORK
CONCRETE CRUSHING
OTHER SITE SERVICES
EMERGENCY RESPONSE

Given the number of projects they support, they are able to continue a viable business.

Where does it say O'Rourke constructs things...all of the above items are simply different marketing ways to present demolition in some form or fashion...

Skyhigh's own webpage - "we have been erecting steel since 1982"...nowhere does it say they dismantle....and they go further to state "ready and willing to travel to meet your coaster installation needs". Key word is installation.  If they did dismantle they would state that or simply say coaster needs...

You are right though, either could decide to expand into the other market at any time if work is light in their niche, so do you have insider information to support your claim?

Edited by disco2000
Ok Sky-high Erectors LLC has one but what are specifics - do they remove to replace at same location? They certainly are not marketing that as a service.
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3 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

Where does it say O'Rourke constructs things...all of the above items are simply different marketing ways to present demolition in some form or fashion...

Skyhigh's own webpage - "we have been erecting steel since 1982"...nowhere does it say they dismantle....and they go further to state "ready and willing to travel to meet your coaster installation needs". Key word is installation.  If they did dismantle they would state that or simply say coaster needs...

You are right though, either could decide to expand into the other market at any time if work is light in their niche, so do you have insider information to support your claim?

It is on Skyhighs website. Under projects they state that they dismantle coasters, specifically King Chaos

image.png

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11 minutes ago, DeviousMrMatt said:

It is on Skyhighs website. Under projects they state that they dismantle coasters, specifically King Chaos

image.png

I edited my post concurrent with you posting LOL, but I still stand by that is not what they market themselves as but they may do so in case by case if a relationship client asks for it.  That example is buried in their pics and dismantle does not show up as a service in pull down menus...

Then why didn't they take down Firehawk and only had one mobilization on site....

The argument though trying to be resolved is someone stating as fact that the same company building Orion will be dismantling Vortex and these discussions are to show the core services these companies provide are contrary to that...so is it insider information about Vortex or a speculation that comes across as factual?

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46 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

I edited my post concurrent with you posting LOL, but I still stand by that is not what they market themselves as but they may do so in case by case if a relationship client asks for it.  That example is buried in their pics and dismantle does not show up as a service in pull down menus...

Then why didn't they take down Firehawk and only had one mobilization on site....

The argument though trying to be resolved is someone stating as fact that the same company building Orion will be dismantling Vortex and these discussions are to show the core services these companies provide are contrary to that...so is it insider information about Vortex or a speculation that comes across as factual?

Just because the company slogan is "Demolition Specialists since 1962" does not mean that is all they do as these do not fall under the "demolition" category.

HISTORICAL PRESERVATION / SALVAGE
ENVIRONNMENTAL SERVICES
WASTE MANAGEMENT / RECYCLING / LEED
EXCAVATION / SITE WORK

Why didn't they take Firehawk down?  I don't know if they did or not but if not, there numerous reasons with two of the top being cost & availability.

56 minutes ago, KIghostguy said:

O'Rourke is not constructing Orion, though. SkyHigh Coasters is doing that. It's very apparent from their website that SkyHigh only does new construction, so they are probably not demolishing Vortex. I'll eat my words if it turns out SkyHigh is doing the demolition, but given Kings Island's history with working with O'Rourke for demolition and the fact there is no reliable source behind the claim, I find it highly unlikely. 

Shaggy has been an incredible & reliable contributor to KIC for a many years.  I have not met Shaggy personally, but have tremendous respect for him due to the accuracy & detail of his contributions.

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1 hour ago, Browntggrr said:

O'Rourke isn't just demolition as seen on their web page:

[...]
SELECTIVE DEMOLITION
[...]

Given the number of projects they support, they are able to continue a viable business.

They're gonna do WHAT to @selective?

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15 minutes ago, JonahWilliamson said:

Take out the three point challenge next to the red diner and set the loop there. Pls and thanks

With that new hoop, I'll be able to make that shot all day!

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51 minutes ago, Browntggrr said:

Shaggy has been an incredible & reliable contributor to KIC for a many years.  I have not met Shaggy personally, but have tremendous respect for him due to the accuracy & detail of his contributions.

He has provided no source for his claim. There is no reason for me trust him with no source or evidence provided and the nature of the companies involved suggest otherwise.

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3 minutes ago, Browntggrr said:

With that new hoop, I'll be able to make that shot all day!

Hang it under orions lift and we now have the NFL punt challenge.

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1 hour ago, KIghostguy said:

He has provided no source for his claim. There is no reason for me trust him with no source or evidence provided and the nature of the companies involved suggest otherwise.

I recognize that what I'm suggesting goes against the ToS, but I'd almost argue that Shaggy IS a source. He knows people. I can't think of a time where he spoke with certainty about something where it ended up being blatantly untrue. He's even the author of several posts on Kings Island's blog.

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35 minutes ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

I recognize that what I'm suggesting goes against the ToS, but I'd almost argue that Shaggy IS a source. He knows people. I can't think of a time where he spoke with certainty about something where it ended up being blatantly untrue. He's even the author of several posts on Kings Island's blog.

With shaggys rep around here and seeing what he posts I trust his info

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1 hour ago, KIghostguy said:

He has provided no source for his claim. There is no reason for me trust him with no source or evidence provided and the nature of the companies involved suggest otherwise.

Good grief - is someones life depending on it?  I trust my source, enough to not betray it.  If I (or they) am (are) wrong, then whats the big deal?  Sheesh!

But if it turns out I am right, will you worship me forever?  LOL

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1 hour ago, KIghostguy said:

He has provided no source for his claim. There is no reason for me trust him with no source or evidence provided and the nature of the companies involved suggest otherwise.

Haha yeah, not to kick you when you’re down or anything but when it comes to KI stuff when Shaggy says it it’s usually chiseled in stone. :D

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Good grief - is someones life depending on it?  I trust my source, enough to not betray it.  If I (or they) am (are) wrong, then whats the big deal?  Sheesh!
But if it turns out I am right, will you worship me forever?  LOL


The hilarity of this is we are now bleeding over the citing of sources from the Orion thread.

It’s getting to the point of being unable to discuss anything without a source, which makes forums useless.
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3 hours ago, DeviousMrMatt said:

It is on Skyhighs website. Under projects they state that they dismantle coasters, specifically King Chaos

image.png

That was for the construction of a Coaster.

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21 minutes ago, fyrfyter said:

 


The hilarity of this is we are now bleeding over the citing of sources from the Orion thread.

It’s getting to the point of being unable to discuss anything without a source, which makes forums useless.

 

Vortex removal contractor rumor thread starting in 3.....2......1......

:rolleyes:

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On the subject of sources, linking back to Shaggy's original post would've helped the conversation considerably. I myself thought someone had stated the same company that is building Orion is tearing down Vortex, but couldn't remember who said it or where I saw that. Quoting that original post would've gone a long way.

While I don't think every single thing should require sources, in an age where nearly everyone thinks they're an expert and both information and misinformation come at you so quick, often the most efficient way to tell the difference between what is reliable and what isn't is the source. 

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On 10/2/2019 at 11:42 AM, DeltaFlyer said:

I had thought about quoting you but didn't... glad to know! Do you know what year they updated it from its original system? 

It was replaced in 1998 (I was supervisor in 97 and 98).

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One of things that needs to return on KIC is giving credibility to those that have earned it. Moderators and Admin should not be questioned about a source when giving a statement from the park. Members like @Shaggy who has been on KIC as long as it has existed and has proven his credibility should be trusted. I feel everyone on KIC can interpret who has earned credibility.

Also, throwing the TOS out there every 5 min does not give a welcoming tone for KIC. If you feel there is an issue with someones statement, examine the source and report it if it seems off.

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This kind of behavior reminds me of a man on Saturday talking about how if Orion was only 299 ft tall it’s technically not a Giga, he stated he believes it’s not actually 300 ft, it like who gives a darn as long as it’s a good coaster. The word Giga is just a marketing term anyways. 

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1 hour ago, Joshua said:

On the subject of sources, linking back to Shaggy's original post would've helped the conversation considerably. I myself thought someone had stated the same company that is building Orion is tearing down Vortex, but couldn't remember who said it or where I saw that. Quoting that original post would've gone a long way.

While I don't think every single thing should require sources, in an age where nearly everyone thinks they're an expert and both information and misinformation come at you so quick, often the most efficient way to tell the difference between what is reliable and what isn't is the source. 

 

I think many thought that this post from Browtggrr was where it originated from...

 

9 hours ago, Browntggrr said:

Vortex's removal is part of the long term plan for KI.  This can be confirmed with knowing the same firm that is assembling Orion will be disassembling Vortex.

Browntggrr reply posts were giving the impression that he was defending his post, if he simply said "It wasn't me", we would have known it was Shaggy...:P

 

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I think O’Rourke is better for demolishing the rides as fast as possible. Kings Island hired O’Rourke to tear apart Son of Beast and Firehawk because they could do it quickly and it did not matter if it was carefully dismantled. Sky High coasters already has all of their equipment on site at the park, and the park might want them to preserve some pieces of Vortex for other Arrows in the Cedar Fair chain. Why hire O’Rourke when you already have another fully capable company on site to dismantle it? Sky High coasters also probably gave Kings Island a deal to do both projects.

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16 hours ago, VortexBFForever said:

Well...yesterday was fun. And bittersweet.

So many things happened that number too many to list in a reply. A day like yesterday deserves a full-fledged photo trip report.

And as mentioned earlier, yes, I did get to ride on the final public train with the original crew.

You can add this photo I captured of you. 

 

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2 hours ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

One of things that needs to return on KIC is giving credibility to those that have earned it. Moderators and Admin should not be questioned about a source when giving a statement from the park. Members like @Shaggy who has been on KIC as long as it has existed and has proven his credibility should be trusted. I feel everyone on KIC can interpret who has earned credibility.

Also, throwing the TOS out there every 5 min does not give a welcoming tone for KIC. If you feel there is an issue with someones statement, examine the source and report it if it seems off.

To counter this though, a new member will not be part of the "everyone on KIC can interpret who has earned credibility" crowd since they haven't been around...especially more so when they agree to the TOS that states:

"Posting information that is not public record and could be damaging to the reputation, business and/or day to day operation of Kings Island or its affiliates is a violation of the terms of service. Any information posted claiming to be from an inside source or claiming to be confirmed, when not being released from Kings Island or Cedar Fair, must be posted along with the name of the source. Failure to do so is a violation of an individual user's terms of service."  And Shaggy did say " I trust my source, enough to not betray it."  I couldn't find it, but I thought several years back a moderator posted something like "If revealing your source could get them fired, you probably shouldn't post the information"...

And how is" earned credibility" measured and quantified to a newer member or even a long term one that doesn't follow every post and digest every word of an individual - is it based on the individual's reputation score when you look them up - if they are excellent, then we accept it at face value? 

Don't get me wrong, I think Shaggy carries a ton of credibility and had Brown stated Shaggy said it then this probably wouldn't have got out of control for those thinking Brown was the source.  We have all seen in the past people get grilled for posting information that someone immediately asks for the source and is backed up with a Moderator asking for it too and for things a lot less than this... 

Should the TOS statement above be modified to state "unless it is posted by Dane, CoastersRZ, IndyGuy4KI, Malem, boddha, Shaggy" etc. :P

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15 hours ago, disco2000 said:

And how is" earned credibility" measured and quantified to a newer member or even a long term one that doesn't follow every post and digest every word of an individual - is it based on the individual's reputation score when you look them up - if they are excellent, then we accept it at face value? 

Don't get me wrong, I think Shaggy carries a ton of credibility and had Brown stated Shaggy said it then this probably wouldn't have got out of control for those thinking Brown was the source.  We have all seen in the past people get grilled for posting information that someone immediately asks for the source and is backed up with a Moderator asking for it too and for things a lot less than this... 

I think it's someone who has proven their knowledge and resources regarding the park/industry as a whole. For me, the moment I saw that the information came from Shaggy, I immediately stopped doubting it. He may be the definition of "earned credibility."

Brown actually did quote Shaggy's post when he made the viagra joke. I myself missed it. Looks like others did, as well. 

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